Axl Rose = Rock Music's George Lucas?

[Vincent Vega]

Chinese Democracy and Star Wars: The Phantom Menace were perhaps the most hyped and anticipated products in their respective mediums; Their release and the long lead up to it (17 years for CD, 16 years for Phantom Menace) put the products on an almost mythical level of expectations and speculations. They became thought of as being "epic" long before their release or any hint of what they would be. The reaction to them was incredibly mixed, with some fans loving the final product, others hating it, and many feeling indifferent.

They were in many ways spectacles of overindulgence: Where Chinese Democracy had layers of production, engineering, tons of guitars and Pro-Tools, The Phantom Menace had thousands of CGIs and other digital effects. Both were perhaps overdone, grandiose, self-indulgent in many ways. Both CD and Menace lack a focus, and many of the elements which made Axl's and Lucas's early works so accessible and lovable--Thus leading to rejection by many 'old school' fans.

They were both the product of a "Director." While the Gunners involved in CD had their voice and created much of the music for CD, ultimately the decisions as to WHAT music would be on the final product laid with Axl; While all of the production artists and designers had their vision and talent, ultimately George Lucas had the final say. One artist expressed some frustration, saying for the example that artists would work intensely for weeks on dozens of models only for George to choose just 3 of those models, leading the rest of them to be scrapped and the hard work put into them to be in vein.

The "Directors" of both products had a tumultous history in the years prior to the conception of both works: George Lucas went through a very bitter divorce in which most of his fortune was taken from him; Axl dealt with the deaths of friends, relatives, bitter lawsuits involving onetime lovers and the loss of friends.

Both Axl and Lucas, originally, worked more with a team: Lucas had great screenwriters to help shape his vision into something solid, executive producers who kept his imagination in check, and tight studio supervision in his early days. Axl had Izzy who was able to help sell his vision to other band members like Slash and Duff; He had people like Tom Zutuat who kept Axl's wilder ideas in check (Zoot for example persuaded Axl not to put November Rain on AFD), and Appetite and to a lesser extent the UYI's were under a budget and had certain things expected of them by the label.

Both Lucas' and Axl's great success, however, allowed them by the late 1990s virtually free reign, a gigantic budget, as well as complete control. None of the "Executive Producers" who helped mold their visions into something more concise were on board by then, and both men were surrounded at this point mostly by Yes-Men (Del James for Axl, Rick McCallum for Lucas) who dare not question their vision, and in fact, many former co-workers of both men said that this lack of someone saying "No" created much of both men's problems and creative foibles.

Both were respected as geniuses in their early days; They were on top of their respective fields. Now many people hate both men for their personal and creative decisions.

I could go on and on...But I do think that a valid comparison is there. That said, I still do love CD for all it's flaws, and I do respect Axl still. But I just thought this would be good food for thought.

[star]

no

[SlashFinck666]

Chinese Democracy and Star Wars: The Phantom Menace were perhaps the most hyped and anticipated products in their respective mediums; Their release and the long lead up to it (17 years for CD, 16 years for Phantom Menace) put the products on an almost mythical level of expectations and speculations. They became thought of as being "epic" long before their release or any hint of what they would be. The reaction to them was incredibly mixed, with some fans loving the final product, others hating it, and many feeling indifferent.

They were in many ways spectacles of overindulgence: Where Chinese Democracy had layers of production, engineering, tons of guitars and Pro-Tools, The Phantom Menace had thousands of CGIs and other digital effects. Both were perhaps overdone, grandiose, self-indulgent in many ways. Both CD and Menace lack a focus, and many of the elements which made Axl's and Lucas's early works so accessible and lovable--Thus leading to rejection by many 'old school' fans.

They were both the product of a "Director." While the Gunners involved in CD had their voice and created much of the music for CD, ultimately the decisions as to WHAT music would be on the final product laid with Axl; While all of the production artists and designers had their vision and talent, ultimately George Lucas had the final say. One artist expressed some frustration, saying for the example that artists would work intensely for weeks on dozens of models only for George to choose just 3 of those models, leading the rest of them to be scrapped and the hard work put into them to be in vein.

The "Directors" of both products had a tumultous history in the years prior to the conception of both works: George Lucas went through a very bitter divorce in which most of his fortune was taken from him; Axl dealt with the deaths of friends, relatives, bitter lawsuits involving onetime lovers and the loss of friends.

Both Axl and Lucas, originally, worked more with a team: Lucas had great screenwriters to help shape his vision into something solid, executive producers who kept his imagination in check, and tight studio supervision in his early days. Axl had Izzy who was able to help sell his vision to other band members like Slash and Duff; He had people like Tom Zutuat who kept Axl's wilder ideas in check (Zoot for example persuaded Axl not to put November Rain on AFD), and Appetite and to a lesser extent the UYI's were under a budget and had certain things expected of them by the label.

Both Lucas' and Axl's great success, however, allowed them by the late 1990s virtually free reign, a gigantic budget, as well as complete control. None of the "Executive Producers" who helped mold their visions into something more concise were on board by then, and both men were surrounded at this point mostly by Yes-Men (Del James for Axl, Rick McCallum for Lucas) who dare not question their vision, and in fact, many former co-workers of both men said that this lack of someone saying "No" created much of both men's problems and creative foibles.

Both were respected as geniuses in their early days; They were on top of their respective fields. Now many people hate both men for their personal and creative decisions.

I could go on and on...But I do think that a valid comparison is there. That said, I still do love CD for all it's flaws, and I do respect Axl still. But I just thought this would be good food for thought.

FUCK ME DO U EVER STOP THE STUPID FUCKING THREADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GET A FUCKING LIFE DUDE

[Vincent Vega]

Chinese Democracy and Star Wars: The Phantom Menace were perhaps the most hyped and anticipated products in their respective mediums; Their release and the long lead up to it (17 years for CD, 16 years for Phantom Menace) put the products on an almost mythical level of expectations and speculations. They became thought of as being "epic" long before their release or any hint of what they would be. The reaction to them was incredibly mixed, with some fans loving the final product, others hating it, and many feeling indifferent.

They were in many ways spectacles of overindulgence: Where Chinese Democracy had layers of production, engineering, tons of guitars and Pro-Tools, The Phantom Menace had thousands of CGIs and other digital effects. Both were perhaps overdone, grandiose, self-indulgent in many ways. Both CD and Menace lack a focus, and many of the elements which made Axl's and Lucas's early works so accessible and lovable--Thus leading to rejection by many 'old school' fans.

They were both the product of a "Director." While the Gunners involved in CD had their voice and created much of the music for CD, ultimately the decisions as to WHAT music would be on the final product laid with Axl; While all of the production artists and designers had their vision and talent, ultimately George Lucas had the final say. One artist expressed some frustration, saying for the example that artists would work intensely for weeks on dozens of models only for George to choose just 3 of those models, leading the rest of them to be scrapped and the hard work put into them to be in vein.

The "Directors" of both products had a tumultous history in the years prior to the conception of both works: George Lucas went through a very bitter divorce in which most of his fortune was taken from him; Axl dealt with the deaths of friends, relatives, bitter lawsuits involving onetime lovers and the loss of friends.

Both Axl and Lucas, originally, worked more with a team: Lucas had great screenwriters to help shape his vision into something solid, executive producers who kept his imagination in check, and tight studio supervision in his early days. Axl had Izzy who was able to help sell his vision to other band members like Slash and Duff; He had people like Tom Zutuat who kept Axl's wilder ideas in check (Zoot for example persuaded Axl not to put November Rain on AFD), and Appetite and to a lesser extent the UYI's were under a budget and had certain things expected of them by the label.

Both Lucas' and Axl's great success, however, allowed them by the late 1990s virtually free reign, a gigantic budget, as well as complete control. None of the "Executive Producers" who helped mold their visions into something more concise were on board by then, and both men were surrounded at this point mostly by Yes-Men (Del James for Axl, Rick McCallum for Lucas) who dare not question their vision, and in fact, many former co-workers of both men said that this lack of someone saying "No" created much of both men's problems and creative foibles.

Both were respected as geniuses in their early days; They were on top of their respective fields. Now many people hate both men for their personal and creative decisions.

I could go on and on...But I do think that a valid comparison is there. That said, I still do love CD for all it's flaws, and I do respect Axl still. But I just thought this would be good food for thought.

FUCK ME DO U EVER STOP THE STUPID FUCKING THREADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GET A FUCKING LIFE DUDE

Make a positive thread about Axl = get bashed.

Make a thread questioning Axl/CD = get bashed

And you people expect me to act like a nice person.

[realpoti]

I know you're just trying to be positive Indigo, but stop with useless threads like this. Seriously.

[wkuk04]

If i had to name a guns n roses member who i think looks like a star wars character i would say Axl looks like C-3PO.

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

I'm curious. Who would be Rock Music's Stanley Kubrick?

[sweetness]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b6a63cac1f/indiana-jones-gets-raped-by-george-lucas-and-steven-spielberg-from-tubulargoldmine

I get it, Indiana Jones represents the good name of Guns N' Roses

Edited January 22, 2011 by sweetness

[Steamboat]

Kanye west is Axl rose reincarnated, I can't wait to hear Kanye's Chinese Democracy, but it's gonna be a long time yet.

[moreblack]

And you people expect me to act like a nice person.

no we don't, we know exactly what to expect from you.

[Guest gunns5]

[DaneisKing1389]

I think it's an interesting comparison and thread. Ignore the majority of the people on the forum because they hate everything.

[FaridBak]

I love both of them, The art of both of them has shaped my life and been part of my growing up. And I still consider myself a big fan of both of them, and while I might not Love single thing and decition they have made I can totaly respect the way they have both stuck to their vision and love their global view of their histories.

When I first saw the phantom menace I didnt think much of it And I had been waiting for it since the Return of The Jedi debuted back in the 80's ... Later I saw the other two movies and understood more what phantom was about in the whole saga and with that in mind I enjoy the whole story quite a bit (I still hate Jar Jar Binks lol)

With Axl It kind of happened in a similar way, first I heard of him and gusn again was a video on youtube of VMA 02 and well I didnt like it so much, mainly cuase my mind wasnt ready yet to not see Duff and Slash and see some other guys which didnt look like the old guns I knew..Now with what I have seen in Chinese Democracy and the band as it is now with their last tour I can see how those long years were steps to help grow up a band that had quite a powerfull and rough upbringing and I love it.. every part of it. The history and Story of Guns N' Roses gets richer every pasing year and I cant wait for the next chapter-

I liked the topic thanks for it Indigo

[Butters]

I thought it was an interesting read, didnt agree with some of it. Lucas has a large budget because he owns the shit. Also i am starting to like IC's little threads. His threads have a unique bizarre quality to them , like a tim burton movie. I maintain that every thread here is equally pointless, so why shit on the person who puts efforts into thier post. Aint nobody here so fucking cool anyways and we are all here for Axl, because short of Gunsguy everybody here knows GNR = RIP.Everybody here has had long disscussion about GNR in thier heads, so rock on IC and keep the post coming . iam begining to hate this place, it has a black hole like energy to it, maybe that is why Mr. Admin Eric never comes here.

[Guest gunns5]

I just spat beer all over myself you fucker! :rofl-lol:

but dont you know, this is how indigo comes up with new thread topics each and everyday!

[saber_]

I don't think the analogy really holds up under scrutiny.

I'd say Guns is more like Deep Purple than ol Georgie.

[wasted]

They are kind of the big two in my "life". Star Wars then AFD. I'm happy they came back with some stuff. I don't hold it against them. That sounds like The Darkness lyric.

[Atlas Shrugged]

not that much different to your run of the mill randy lahey thread, although lacks the wit and irony.

[dalsh327]

Chinese Democracy and Star Wars: The Phantom Menace were perhaps the most hyped and anticipated products in their respective mediums; Their release and the long lead up to it (17 years for CD, 16 years for Phantom Menace) put the products on an almost mythical level of expectations and speculations. They became thought of as being "epic" long before their release or any hint of what they would be. The reaction to them was incredibly mixed, with some fans loving the final product, others hating it, and many feeling indifferent.

They were in many ways spectacles of overindulgence: Where Chinese Democracy had layers of production, engineering, tons of guitars and Pro-Tools, The Phantom Menace had thousands of CGIs and other digital effects. Both were perhaps overdone, grandiose, self-indulgent in many ways. Both CD and Menace lack a focus, and many of the elements which made Axl's and Lucas's early works so accessible and lovable--Thus leading to rejection by many 'old school' fans.

They were both the product of a "Director." While the Gunners involved in CD had their voice and created much of the music for CD, ultimately the decisions as to WHAT music would be on the final product laid with Axl; While all of the production artists and designers had their vision and talent, ultimately George Lucas had the final say. One artist expressed some frustration, saying for the example that artists would work intensely for weeks on dozens of models only for George to choose just 3 of those models, leading the rest of them to be scrapped and the hard work put into them to be in vein.

The "Directors" of both products had a tumultous history in the years prior to the conception of both works: George Lucas went through a very bitter divorce in which most of his fortune was taken from him; Axl dealt with the deaths of friends, relatives, bitter lawsuits involving onetime lovers and the loss of friends.

Both Axl and Lucas, originally, worked more with a team: Lucas had great screenwriters to help shape his vision into something solid, executive producers who kept his imagination in check, and tight studio supervision in his early days. Axl had Izzy who was able to help sell his vision to other band members like Slash and Duff; He had people like Tom Zutuat who kept Axl's wilder ideas in check (Zoot for example persuaded Axl not to put November Rain on AFD), and Appetite and to a lesser extent the UYI's were under a budget and had certain things expected of them by the label.

Both Lucas' and Axl's great success, however, allowed them by the late 1990s virtually free reign, a gigantic budget, as well as complete control. None of the "Executive Producers" who helped mold their visions into something more concise were on board by then, and both men were surrounded at this point mostly by Yes-Men (Del James for Axl, Rick McCallum for Lucas) who dare not question their vision, and in fact, many former co-workers of both men said that this lack of someone saying "No" created much of both men's problems and creative foibles.

Both were respected as geniuses in their early days; They were on top of their respective fields. Now many people hate both men for their personal and creative decisions.

I could go on and on...But I do think that a valid comparison is there. That said, I still do love CD for all it's flaws, and I do respect Axl still. But I just thought this would be good food for thought.

George Lucas was part of a collective of directors that included Coppola and Scorsese. Without Lucas pulling "The Godfather" out of the trash, Coppola never would've made one of the best films of all time. Without producing "American Graffiti", there would be no "Star Wars".

But Lucas put his energies into sound and visual technology, which is prob. his biggest legacy.

The prequels, in my opinion, were demo reels to show off digital video, and part of paying off his ex wife in the divorce settlement. After that breakup, he started showing up in parades and car races, and moved the studios to the same place where Metallica filmed "Some Kind of Monster". I think right after they recorded "St Anger", Lucas moved his offices to the Presidio.

Lucas handed his Star Wars films to other people to make, and he oversaw them, had final say in what came out.

If Axl had re-recorded AFD with the current band members. that might have been the only comparison I would've made to Lucas. And the whole trilogy thing...

And people expecting a "CD II" the way they're expecting a trilogy post "Return of the Jedi".

[Use Your Delusion 1]

the question is who/what is Chinese Democracy's Jar Jar Binks?!

[SlashFinck666]

the question is who/what is Chinese Democracy's Jar Jar Binks?!

Easy,its that talentless poser DJ Ashba

[wasted]

Star Wars seems all about the toys. Like I don't remember the movies but I remember Jar Jar.