If it was really about money for Axl....

[Vincent Vega]

Some claim Axl kept the Guns name going solely or mostly for the purposes of money. If that's the case, and it's all about money for Axl, these questions need to be asked:

1) Why does he spend outrageiously? From the time GN'R has been big he's been a lavish spender, whether on UYI era parties, clothes, food, his house, etc etc.

2) Why does he continually go on late to the stage, even though it costs him possibly thousands of dollars?

3) Why does he willingly involve himself in lawsuits, which will cost him thousands if not millions? Likewise, why does he engage in risky behavior which could cost him thousands in lawsuits (punching paparazzi, causing riots, etc)?

4) Why hasn't he released more albums, a single music video, and more singles by now? Surely he'd make even MORE money by making more than one album since 1993. Surely more albums, singles, or even a single music video would draw attention to the Guns N' Roses' name at the very least, thus...MORE MONEY!

5) Why does he tour sporadically? It's not he treats "new" Guns like it's the Grateful Dead and tours nonestop for 3 years. Why are GN'R tours generally underpromoted? Consider the Rolling Stones. When they announce a tour, they make it into a media blitz and usually announce it with some dramatic event such as using a blimp to invade a city, or playing their songs off the back of a truck rolling through busy city streets. This attracts media attention and thus the attention of the public, leading to more ticket sales and thus more money. Yet in comparison, GN'R tours are announced at the last minute usually and are treated publicity wise as non-events.

6) Why hasn't he further 'milked' the Guns name by releasing concert DVDs of the new band, documentaries of any kind, or written a book? Why hasn't he released a box set or something along those lines? Why not a bunch of live albums of the new band? Why did he want to block the Greatest Hits album release?

7) Why did he fail to do much of anything to promote CD to the mass public? If it was about money, why didn't he whore that album like a New York pimp? Why did he fail to even try to capitalize on the anticipation built up by the media surrounding the album? Yes, he came to fan sites...But fan sites are NOT most of the public. They are not in the millions, not even in the hundreds of thousands of people collectively.

8) Why does he fail to promote himself? By promoting himself, he'd in turn be promoting Guns. Beyond the new band, Axl very rarely gives interviews, hasn't made a single professional press conference since the early 90s, hasn't given an interview to a major magazine since 2000, etc.

Let's be honest, if he kept the Guns' name simply for money...He hasn't acted like it.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Indigo Child

[Steamboat]

I think Axl does whatever the hell he wants, he didn't have things like drug addictions and he seems to be doing well financially.. he didn't really keep the name.. hes just always been in the band with that name why should he have to change the name just because the other members were more invested in their side projects

[Guest Sleeping Like An Angel]

I don't think anyone has accused Axl of doing things for money? The only time I ever saw anyone claim that was around the time of the private show last year.

Axl does stuff because he wants to not because hes hungry for money.

[Martin Riggs]

Not being "in it" for the money and still wanting a lot of money aren't mutually exclusive.

[Encore]

k, no one cares

[Vincent Vega]

Not being "in it" for the money and still wanting a lot of money aren't mutually exclusive.

I would imagine the money he makes from GN'R tours (his major active source of income GN'R wise) is probably negated by his spending habits, going on stage late and the fees incurred from it, his lawsuits, etc. You can say "royalties", but even if he didn't keep the name he'd still get royalties from the old albums/singles just as Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven, Matt, Gilby, Dizzy and Paul do.

He's lost more by keeping the GN'R name than he's gained. He's lost fans, he's lost his reputation in many respects, he's lost the respect of much of the media, etc.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Indigo Child

[Steamboat]

k, no one cares

What's the point in living

[Nintari]

My opinion is...Axl kept the name for two reasons.

1.)He genuinely feels betrayed and that he is the "last man standing". He views it like an abandoned ship, one that he refuses to give up on.

2.)Spite. He knew how much it would eat Slash up inside (he was right).

I know one thing is true though, it's not about the money. If he wanted to make money, he would have regrouped the original band LONG AGO. Concert sales and record sales for the original group would DWARF what he's getting now. He knows this and so, for someone to suggest that doing this is about money? Completely retarded.

[Vincent Vega]

My opinion is...Axl kept the name for two reasons.

1.)He genuinely feels betrayed and that he is the "last man standing". He views it like an abandoned ship, one that he refuses to give up on.

2.)Spite. He knew how much it would eat Slash up inside (he was right).

I know one thing is true though, it's not about the money. If he wanted to make money, he would have regrouped the original band LONG AGO. Concert sales and record sales for the original group would DWARF what he's getting now. He knows this and so, for someone to suggest that doing this is about money? Completely retarded.

Not only that but I think Guns for him is part of his identity. It's part of his life, one of the biggest constants and biggest defining factors for him. It's his burden to bear, his ball and chain, his blessing and curse. I don't think Axl feels that he's Guns, but I think he feels that Guns is a part of his life. Maybe one of the most important parts. I don't think he's kept the name out of insecurity, but because he believes in Guns. I think it's as important to him as it is to many of us.

Spite might've been a factor in 1997, 1998, 1999--In the immediate aftermath of Slash leaving--but I doubt it is now. By just the same token, Slash leaving I think was his attempt to call Axl's bluff, to have Axl come and say, "COME BACK! I'LL DO IT ALL YOUR WAY!" Big psychological warfare between those two at one point I think. Nowadays, I don't think Axl thinks of Slash much and Slash probably doesn't think of Axl much either.

I kind of agree with the 'abandoned ship' theory...Which is why I view the current band as GN'R.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Indigo Child

[MB.]

My opinion is...Axl kept the name for two reasons.

1.)He genuinely feels betrayed and that he is the "last man standing". He views it like an abandoned ship, one that he refuses to give up on.

2.)Spite. He knew how much it would eat Slash up inside (he was right).

I know one thing is true though, it's not about the money. If he wanted to make money, he would have regrouped the original band LONG AGO. Concert sales and record sales for the original group would DWARF what he's getting now. He knows this and so, for someone to suggest that doing this is about money? Completely retarded.

I think this and also I think the record company had some say in this. They would never waited that long for an Axl Rose solo record.

[Julia Alexandra]

That's not true.Axl's not doing it for money.I'm sure he knows that some people will always be with him and the band and respect his decisions.When Axl works on somethings,you can be sure it's gonna be something big.He prefers to work on his projects for a while and make them unforgettable.I'm sure he wants to please his fans,he is not hungry for money.

[Vincent Vega]

My opinion is...Axl kept the name for two reasons.

1.)He genuinely feels betrayed and that he is the "last man standing". He views it like an abandoned ship, one that he refuses to give up on.

2.)Spite. He knew how much it would eat Slash up inside (he was right).

I know one thing is true though, it's not about the money. If he wanted to make money, he would have regrouped the original band LONG AGO. Concert sales and record sales for the original group would DWARF what he's getting now. He knows this and so, for someone to suggest that doing this is about money? Completely retarded.

I think this and also I think the record company had some say in this. They would never waited that long for an Axl Rose solo record.

The record company surely stood to gain by the Guns N' Roses name remaining in business, of course, but ultimately the decision laid with Axl; If he didn't want to keep on the name, he could've lived up to Geffen's expectations for the GN'R name in many other ways: Re-release the old records, remaster them, make multiple GH albums, make multiple live albums--essentially the same way most dead bands remain alive as 'brands.'

Besides, I recall reading somewhere that Live Era fulfilled Guns' obligation to the label in terms of how many albums they were signed for.

[Julia Alexandra]

My opinion is...Axl kept the name for two reasons.

1.)He genuinely feels betrayed and that he is the "last man standing". He views it like an abandoned ship, one that he refuses to give up on.

2.)Spite. He knew how much it would eat Slash up inside (he was right).

I know one thing is true though, it's not about the money. If he wanted to make money, he would have regrouped the original band LONG AGO. Concert sales and record sales for the original group would DWARF what he's getting now. He knows this and so, for someone to suggest that doing this is about money? Completely retarded.

Not only that but I think Guns for him is part of his identity. It's part of his life, one of the biggest constants and biggest defining factors for him. It's his burden to bear, his ball and chain, his blessing and curse. I don't think Axl feels that he's Guns, but I think he feels that Guns is a part of his life. Maybe one of the most important parts. I don't think he's kept the name out of insecurity, but because he believes in Guns. I think it's as important to him as it is to many of us.

Spite might've been a factor in 1997, 1998, 1999--In the immediate aftermath of Slash leaving--but I doubt it is now. By just the same token, Slash leaving I think was his attempt to call Axl's bluff, to have Axl come and say, "COME BACK! I'LL DO IT ALL YOUR WAY!" Big psychological warfare between those two at one point I think. Nowadays, I don't think Axl thinks of Slash much and Slash probably doesn't think of Axl much either.

I kind of agree with the 'abandoned ship' theory...Which is why I view the current band as GN'R.

True...

[Martin Riggs]

Not being "in it" for the money and still wanting a lot of money aren't mutually exclusive.

I would imagine the money he makes from GN'R tours (his major active source of income GN'R wise) is probably negated by his spending habits, going on stage late and the fees incurred from it, his lawsuits, etc. You can say "royalties", but even if he didn't keep the name he'd still get royalties from the old albums/singles just as Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven, Matt, Gilby, Dizzy and Paul do.

He's lost more by keeping the GN'R name than he's gained. He's lost fans, he's lost his reputation in many respects, he's lost the respect of much of the media, etc.

What's your point? I doubt anybody said someone who likes money (as Axl obviously does, at least he likes to spend it) can't also let their ego control their actions.

[Vincent Vega]

Not being "in it" for the money and still wanting a lot of money aren't mutually exclusive.

I would imagine the money he makes from GN'R tours (his major active source of income GN'R wise) is probably negated by his spending habits, going on stage late and the fees incurred from it, his lawsuits, etc. You can say "royalties", but even if he didn't keep the name he'd still get royalties from the old albums/singles just as Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven, Matt, Gilby, Dizzy and Paul do.

He's lost more by keeping the GN'R name than he's gained. He's lost fans, he's lost his reputation in many respects, he's lost the respect of much of the media, etc.

What's your point? I doubt anybody said someone who likes money (as Axl obviously does, at least he likes to spend it) can't also let their ego control their actions.

Eh, I don't think so. I'm a compulsive spender, but I don't necessarily like money, and I certainly wouldn't go out of my way and make myself hated by millions to get it. Like I said in the OP, if keeping the GN'R name was for money, there are a number of ways he could stand to make much more off it. He isn't milking the name as much as he could if he really wanted the money that badly or if it was that important.

[The Black]

I leave you with this question:

If all musicians denied touring and recording music with him, except for the original bandmembers, would he accept the offer of reuniting?

[Vincent Vega]

I leave you with this question:

If all musicians denied touring and recording music with him, except for the original bandmembers, would he accept the offer of reuniting?

"Ask yourself what I would do to prostitute myself, to live with fortune and shame?"

[FaridBak]

I think its more about the Artist integrity, and The artist vision. with Axl Rose.

Its about getting his message across no matter how hard it is.

Victory or Death comes to mind

[Vincent Vega]

You can be greedy for more than money. You can be greedy for glory.

He tried to harness the genuineness and respect that Nirvana had when Nirvana were already big. Cobain's dismissal of Guns N' Roses offended Axl Rose when in reality Nirvana owed him nothing at all.

The other members of the band Slash and Duff had important input as members of the band. Axl wanted Slash and Duff to sign away the name of the band that Slash and Duff had invested in and built from scratch.

Later he acquired Buckethead (he got zero songwriting credit on TWAT) and was mad that he left like Buckethead some possession. Pretty much all the Guns N' Roses songs have his songwriting credit on them, and some songs even just have his name credit alone.

Money? There was a moment after the earthquake in Haiti where it was brought up that a Guns N' Roses reunion concert would have generated a lot of money for the charity. Ultimately this isn't really fair to put someone on the spot for but it was still a legitimate point to think about considering that Axl's petty quarrel trumped what could have been a useful opportunity a la Pink Floyd.

Axl may not care about money but his actions lead one to conclude that he cares a lot more about glory for himself to be the last man standing.

Actually Axl liked and respected Nirvana even before they were big, and asked them to tour with Guns and Metallica on the 1992 tour. Nirvana turned them down. Kurt Cobain at the same time began making very insulting statements to the press about GN'R, including calling them (and not just Axl) untalented, that their music sucked. Only then did Axl attack them verbally. I know it's fun to re-write history and all but yeah, facts are stubborn things.

If you're depending on a guy and he quits out of the blue, it'd piss anyone off. Guns was supposed to be at Rock in Rio 4 and this left them in the lurch. When Mick Taylor left the Stones in 1974 a couple of weeks before they were set to go into the studio, it pissed them off. It's a natural reaction and not a question of feeling you "own" somebody. Even Slash was pissed when Izzy left because it gave him the stressful responsibility of finding a suitable replacement in two weeks' time or cancelling an entire leg of the UYI tour.

Charities are nice and all, but let's be honest: If he reunited with the original Gunners for anything, even for that, it'd be spun in the press that Axl caved in, that he gave up, new GN'R would be dead. It wasn't worth it.

[appetite4illusions]

Guns N' Roses has just always been Axl's aesthetic, and it always will be.

The presentation and the dramatic spirit that you can hear in every GN'R anthem. Of course every member defined that sound, but nobody understood how to direct it better than Axl. Somewhere in that sonic magic is Axl's mad genius; one that takes tons of pressure and time to produce, but delivers like nothing else can.

If you ask me, and I know nobody is, but he kept Guns N' Roses because he knew he could carry on the sonic spirit of the Guns aesthetic. More to the point, he didn't want to part with what the spirit of that sound meant to him.

[Vincent Vega]

Actually Axl liked and respected Nirvana even before they were big, and asked them to tour with Guns and Metallica on the 1992 tour. Nirvana turned them down. Kurt Cobain at the same time began making very insulting statements to the press about GN'R, including calling them (and not just Axl) untalented, that their music sucked. Only then did Axl attack them verbally. I know it's fun to re-write history and all but yeah, facts are stubborn things.

If you're depending on a guy and he quits out of the blue, it'd piss anyone off. Guns was supposed to be at Rock in Rio 4 and this left them in the lurch. When Mick Taylor left the Stones in 1974 a couple of weeks before they were set to go into the studio, it pissed them off. It's a natural reaction and not a question of feeling you "own" somebody. Even Slash was pissed when Izzy left because it gave him the stressful responsibility of finding a suitable replacement in two weeks' time or cancelling an entire leg of the UYI tour.

Charities are nice and all, but let's be honest: If he reunited with the original Gunners for anything, even for that, it'd be spun in the press that Axl caved in, that he gave up, new GN'R would be dead. It wasn't worth it.

What? Nirvana were big in 1991, not just 1992. Did you even read what I said?

I know it's fun to re-write history and all but yeah, facts are stubborn things. Is that supposed to be funny or help your argument? Why did you say that? Why? That was just bizarre.

You aren't really arguing. You just string quasi-encyclopedia "facts" together to make an argument, and anyone can do that. Your empty writing is terrible.

Charities are nice and all Why did you put a non-sequitur disclaimer to segue with? What are you doing? Do you write to people like they are adults or not? What is wrong with you.

1) He liked them in 1990, there's a video from around that time of him wearing a Nirvana cap. He also spoke about Nirvana around that time in an interview and mentioned how their music saved his life or brought him out of a deep slump. Nirvana didn't hit mainstream success until September 1991 when Nevermind came out. Axl got in contact with them and asked if they open for Guns on the UYI Tour; they declined; Axl invited them to come on tour around the same time, they declined and Kurt began making his statements:

February 1992:

Advocate: -I read the liner notes you wrote on Incesticide. I've never seen somebody on a major label say, "If you're a racist, a sexist, a homophobe, we don't want you to buy our records."

Kurt: That's been the biggest problem that I've had being in this band. I know there are those people out in the audience, and there's not much I can do about it. I can talk about those issues in interviews-I think it's pretty obvious that we're against the homophobes and the sexists and the racists, but when "Teen Spirit" first came out, mainstream audiences were under the assumption that we were just like Guns N' Roses...There is a war going on in the high schools now between Nirvana kids and Guns N' Roses kids. It's really cool. I'm really proud to be a part of that, because when I was in high school, I dressed like a punk rocker and people would scream "Devo!" at me-because Devo infiltrated the mainstream. Out of all the bands who came from the underground and actually made it in the mainstream, Devo is the most subversive and challenging of all. They're just awesome. I love them."

Advocate: Is there anything about Guns N' Roses' music you like?

Kurt: "I can't think of a damn thing. I can't even waste my time on that band, because they're so obviously pathetic and untalented. I used to think that everything in the mainstream pop world was crap, but now that some underground bands have been signed with majors, I take Guns N' Roses as more of an offense. I have to look into it more: They're really talent less people, and they write crap music, and they're the most popular rock band on the earth right now. I can't believe it."

Advocate: -Does he [Axl] remind you of guys you went to high school with?

Kurt: "Absolutely. Really confused, fucked-up guys. There's not much hope for them."

Advocate: When he was singing about "immigrants and persons," people were excusing it buy saying, "Well, he's from Indiana"

Kurt: "Oh, well, that's OK then. [Laughs] Insane. Later, after we played our show and were walking back to our trailer, the Guns N' Roses entourage came walking toward us. They have at least 50 bodyguards apiece: huge, gigantic, brain-dead oafs ready to kill for Axl at all times. [Laughs] They didn't see me, but they surrounded Chris, and Duff [McKagan of Guns N' Roses] wanted to beat Chris up, and the bodyguards started pushing Chris around. He finally escaped, but throughout the rest of the evening, there was a big threat of either Guns N' Roses themselves or their goons beating us up. We had to hide out.

Since then, every time Axl has played a show he's said some comment about me and Courtney. When he was in Seattle, he said "Nirvana would rather stay home and shoot drugs with their bitch wives than tour with us." [Laughs] That's why there's this big feud in most of the high schools. It's hilarious. He is insane, though. I was scared. I couldn't possibly beat him up; I know he would beat me up if he had the chance."

Advocate: How do you feel about Guns N' Roses fans coming to see you?

Kurt: :Well, when we played that No on 9 benefit in Portland, I said something about Guns N' Roses. Nothing nasty-I think I said, "And now, for our next song, 'Sweet Child o' Mine.'" But some kid jumped onstage and said, "Hey, man, Guns N' Roses plays awesome music, and Nirvana plays awesome music. Let's just get along and work things out, man!"

And I just couldn't help but say, "No, kid, you're really wrong. Those people are total sexist jerks, and the reason we're playing this show is to fight homophobia in a real small way. The guy is a fucking sexist and a racist and a homophobe, and you can't be on his side and be on our side. I"m sorry that I have to divide this up like this, but it's something you can't ignore. And besides they can't write good music. [Laughs]"

Advocate: You know, you were probably taking money from people who were voting yes on 9-but they really wanted to see Nirvana.

Kurt: "[Laughs] Right! Chris went to a Guns N' Roses concert when they played here with Metallica a couple of months ago, and he went backstage, and there were these two bimbo girls who looked like they walked out of a Warrant video. They were sitting on the couch in hopes of sucking Axl's dick or something, and one of them said, "Chris, we saw you at that No on 9 benefit! We're voting yes on 9! You kissed Kurt on the lips! That was disgusting!" [Laughs] To know that we affect people like that-it's kind of funny. The sad thing is that there's no penetrating them. After all that, after all the things those girls had seen us do, that was the one thing that sticks in their minds."

(Much later in the same interview. No mention of Axl or Guns by either party)

Advocate: Courtney comes across in the press as the Nancy Reagan of this relationship.

Kurt: "It's just sick. God! I don't want to say something like "Well, if anything, I wear the pants in the house." It's completely divided. We have influence on each other. It's totally 50-50. Courtney insists on this: She has a tab when she borrows money from me that she has to pay back. She's only up to $6,000. We're millionaires, and she goes to Jet Rag [a Los Angeles vintage-clothing shop] and buys clothes-$5 dresses. big deal! I'll gladly buy her some $5 dresses. We don't require much at all.

Our personal expenses over the last year-we made a million dollars, of which $380,000 went to taxes, $300,000 went to a house, the rest went to doctors and lawyers, and our personal expenses were like $80,000. That's including car rentals, food, everything. That's not very much; that's definitely not what Axl spends a year. She insisted on a prenuptial agreement; no one knows that. So there's definitely not manipulation going on in this relationship at all."

Cobain and Courtney Love spent two months in Fall 1992 at the fancy Four Seasons Olympic Hotel in Seattle, ringing up an extravagant $36,000 bill before being kicked out. The name they were staying under was Bill Bailey.

Also:

Kurt: What does Axl Rose have to say to anyone? What is his platform, what's core, what does he have to say to anyone? There's nothing! He just talks shit! He just throws bottles!...."We [both] come from small towns and we've been surrounded by a lot of sexism and racism most of our lives. But out internal struggles are pretty different. I feel like I've allowed myself to open my mind to a lot more things than he has. His role has been played for years. Ever since the beginning of rock 'n' roll, there's been an Axl Rose. And it's just totally boring to me.

Kurt Cobain: "I spat on Axl's keyboards when we were sitting on the stage [1992 VMAs]. It was either that or beat him up. We're down on this platform that brought us up hydraulically, you know? I saw his piano there, and I just had to take this opportunity and spit big goobers all over his keyboards. I hope he didn't get it off in time."

Meanwhile, Axl 1992:

Metallix: Have you ever thought about other groups you'd like to hear cover some Guns tunes?

"I haven't even thought of that. But off the top of my head... I don't know. That's a hard one. I'd like to hear Nirvana do "Welcome To The Jungle." That's what I'd like to hear. I'd like to hear Nirvana do "Jungle" their way, however that is. And maybe Nine Inch Nails do anything, do "Estranged."

Also, in Musician, May 1992:

Axl: "I just think that Nirvana is having a lot of problems with who they are and who they want to be and trying to hold onto it at the same time. At least, Kurt is. I'd like to be as supportive as I can, but I don't know how much he will allow support. To write a song like "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and then have it used as an anthem has to be a complete mindfuck. "

The man [Kurt Cobain] has a mountain to rise above. I think there is a part of him that has the strength and desire to do it. I just don't know if he's able to get in touch with it.I had an advance copy of [Nevermind] and it became my favorite. I would put it on repeatedly. Nirvana has helped me do my job. I think the world has gotten really bored, really fed up and really pent up with frustration, and that comes through in Nirvana. I think a lot of people were aware of that feeling and he happened to find the song that touched it and was able to let that feeling out in people. And I'd like to do anything I can to support it. That's why I want them to play with us.

There's also a quote out there about Nirvana bringing him out of a slump. I'll try to find it.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Indigo Child

[sweetness]

^^^ ha, Kurt was such a faggot

Why does he spend outrageiously?

is that really the best way to start arguing that he isn't concerned about money?

Edited January 25, 2011 by sweetness

[ThinkAboutYou]

Wouldnt they be cashing in on glee and shit if it was about money

Edited January 25, 2011 by ThinkAboutYou

[Vincent Vega]

Why does he spend outrageiously?

is that really the best way to start arguing that he isn't concerned about money?

Sweetness, I'm not looking for your support, and I'm pretty sure that's all you read of what I said anyway.

Axl could cure cancer and you'd find something to criticize about it, so...Don't waste your time and read past the first line!

[sweetness]

Why does he spend outrageiously?

is that really the best way to start arguing that he isn't concerned about money?

Sweetness, I'm not looking for your support, and I'm pretty sure that's all you read of what I said anyway.

Axl could cure cancer and you'd find something to criticize about it, so...Don't waste your time and read past the first line!

Miser I've read enough of your posts to know they're mostly full of bullshit