Mr. Dude Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The whole 'trilogy' was simply embarrassing, woeful, stuff which destroyed Guns N' Roses's reputation.I dunno about that, i seem to remember NR being top of MTVs video charts for months on end 'MTV'? That sort of supports my point.How old are you, out of curiosity? Because back when NR was the top video on MTV, MTV was actually still pretty cool. They played videos, had the week in rock news show, and hadn't become the reality whore network that it is now. I agree with you that MTV is pointless in 2014, but not in 1992.The NR video is awesome and one of the best music videos ever made (I don't think I even have to say IMO, even MTV and other video networks would agree with that.) But Estranged on the other hand is "when a great band makes a bad video moment." I don't even know what other bands/videos to compare it to. It's kinda on an island all by itself....MTV is kind of what broke the band open in the first place. I criticized MTV even back then, but they did play some good music back in the early-mid 90s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyrobot Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 When people say this or that is a bad video, do they base their opinion on what exactly? On their studies in cinematography, photography and film? Do any of the people saying it is a bad video EVER wrote the script for any video documentary, short film or movie?Just wondering.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The whole 'trilogy' was simply embarrassing, woeful, stuff which destroyed Guns N' Roses's reputation.I dunno about that, i seem to remember NR being top of MTVs video charts for months on end 'MTV'? That sort of supports my point.How old are you, out of curiosity? Because back when NR was the top video on MTV, MTV was actually still pretty cool. They played videos, had the week in rock news show, and hadn't become the reality whore network that it is now. I agree with you that MTV is pointless in 2014, but not in 1992.The NR video is awesome and one of the best music videos ever made (I don't think I even have to say IMO, even MTV and other video networks would agree with that.) But Estranged on the other hand is "when a great band makes a bad video moment." I don't even know what other bands/videos to compare it to. It's kinda on an island all by itself.... MTV is kind of what broke the band open in the first place. I criticized MTV even back then, but they did play some good music back in the early-mid 90s.Ya for sure. MTV was never my be all end all of music for me either, honestly word of mouth has always been my favorite music source. If someone likes good music (not just rock, but anything), and I respect their opinions, I am much more likely to listen to their suggestions. But I also have say I did get a lot from MTV back then also. It started to go down hill for me when TRL came out, that was probably about 98' or 99'? Not sure on the dates? But they also started doing all those celebrity death matches and what nots, so they were shifting away from music by then for sure. But those shows were pretty entertaining imo, so I still watched them. Hell who here didn't love Beavis and Butthead? But in 1992 when gnr was the kings, they were still pretty music centered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakDown2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 When people say this or that is a bad video, do they base their opinion on what exactly? On their studies in cinematography, photography and film? Do any of the people saying it is a bad video EVER wrote the script for any video documentary, short film or movie?Just wondering....So now you have to be a film director for even having an opinion about a video? The video is directed to average people and fans, I think their opinion is more important than any other.It's not like you have to be an expert musician before being able to like a song or not. Same with videos, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I liked the video. I think it was well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I like all of gnr's videos including Estranged and Since I don't have you, but I do think that Estranged is well....strange. I'm not sure that it makes any sense, I doubt it makes any sense to Axl at this point either. It was a mistake in 1993, and showed how uncool gnr had become to the whole grunge scene.I don't recall the artist but they were saying how great GnR was until they started taking themselves too seriously and they used the "pretentious" video of Estranged to make their point. Still one of the best rock ballads of all time though.Agreed. It is a great song, and as I said I even like the video, but it is one of my least favs. The Garden is probably my lest favorite gnr video though, possibly Yesterdays also (I don't care for Axl's look in that one, too pretty boy imo). But what is the overall point of Estranged? Axl's suicidal because SS died in November Rain? Because he tried to kill himself in Don't Cry, but she stopped him. Then they got married, but somehow she died, then Axl wrote "Without You" better known as Estranged, it becomes a world wide hit, they tour the world, but Axl is still suicidal and the Swat team breaks into his house to save him??? But somewhere along the way Axl jumps off a ship and swims with dolphins??? What???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Plot twist: Stephanie died metaphorically. What Axl thought was beautiful was only a memory. Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguy Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I read somewhere that the first intentions were to use whales, and not dolphins. But because whales are difficult to work with, they used dolphinsTotally. The whale actors union is notoriously difficult to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 November Rain is so horrendous it is difficult to know where to start: from the completely over the top reaction to rain occurring at the wedding feast; to that cheesy scene where Slash forgets the ring only for Duff to produce it ('hey dude, isn't Slash the rock n' roll duffass''); to that scene in the pub where GN'R and Steph act like best of friends; to Axl's regal Elton John top; to the bit where Slash leaves the church, exiting the door - somehow! - now clad in leathers, to play a guitar on a cliff!Most, ironic and humorous, people's opinion on November Rain is reflected in the following parody which is loosely contemporary with the original video, But of course MTV liked it. The teeny boppers and girlies liked it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 My high school self thought the video was epic and amazing. Nowadays I just see it as overindulgent and a little heavy on the cheese, I mean you can't get more cliche than Slash rising up from the ocean while the sun sets and the wind blows to play a guitar solo lolThe song itself is great though, one of GNR's best IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 http://www.oceanlight.com/spotlight.php?img=0978529:00 Parts of Titanic and True Lies were also filmed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combos Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 My only critique of the video is the concert parts don't seem to jive with the storytellling parts.they do a little bit, he comes off stage and is so drained his soul leaves his body, the rest is madness...Good call, good call. I was going off memory- hadn't watched it since last summer.I still think a lot of the imagery is cool in the video.I think one reason this video took some heat is because it was released at the tail end of '93. By that time, UYIs had been out for 2+ years and GNR had dominated MTV for a long while up until that point. People were a little bit weary of GNR and it was in that context the video felt out of place at the time (for some). Critics capitalized on the feeling in the air and seized on the dolphin bit, instead of judging the video on its merits.I think the video is interesting on a lot of levels, especially given the estrangement that took place afterwards among various Gunners (not just Axl but Slash, Izzy, Steven, Duff: they all were estranged from eachother in some way).It took heat because pop culture had shifted. That video was competing against Nirvana, Pearl Jam etc. Hell, Beck was just becoming popular. Times had changed and GNR was considered yesterday's thing with the youth at the time (I was one such youth).When TSI came out along with the SIDHY video, that was it. The ride was over. The guard had changed. Although, looking back now, that didn't really mean GNR would have been dead. I think they would have kept on making great records and selling out shows like the Stones. It's just that by 1993, at least in the US, they had lost the teenage demograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 November Rain is so horrendous it is difficult to know where to start: from the completely over the top reaction to rain occurring at the wedding feast; to that cheesy scene where Slash forgets the ring only for Duff to produce it ('hey dude, isn't Slash the rock n' roll duffass''); to that scene in the pub where GN'R and Steph act like best of friends; to Axl's regal Elton John top; to the bit where Slash leaves the church, exiting the door - somehow! - now clad in leathers, to play a guitar on a cliff!Most, ironic and humorous, people's opinion on November Rain is reflected in the following parody which is loosely contemporary with the original video,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g06PuIaGLVo But of course MTV liked it. The teeny boppers and girlies liked it. I suppose you could look at NR now and think all of those things, but at the time nobody had seen anything like that before. It really was a moment in time, and pop culture for that matter. Looking back now it is clearly the height of gnr's mountain, they were never bigger than they were when NR was riding high on MTV. But that's one of the differences between the two videos, NR was something like we've never really seen before in a good way, it was like the first rnr wedding and funeral, all at the same time. While Estranged was never really seen before either, but most people didn't think swimming with dolphins was all that cool. Sure you can argue that's just a matter of opinion? Yes it is, but many people also seemed to feel that way. That doesn't make either way wrong though. I personally prefer the NR video, but I also remember watching it when it was brand new, so I have a nostolgia factor. Estranged didn't get nearly as much MTV play, and I only had cable at one parents house back then (divorce, boo hoo, lol), so I didn't remember seeing Estranged for the first time till much later. So it didn't have near the impact on me. I like it though, I like most things gnr though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I do not think it was that groundbreaking. It is not exactly 'Come To Daddy' - or even 'Thriller' (for its era) or 'Freak On A Leash'! 'November Rain' merely depicts an, atypical 'rock star' relationship-gone-wrong, as visualised through a series of cheese motifs (the bare-chested guitarist soloing on a cliff), which occurred in most power ballad videos of the 1980s. Perhaps something in the budget, and the sheer length, elevated November Rain above the current crop but there is nothing there that is particularly groundbreaking or innovative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carburetta Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 November Rain is so horrendous it is difficult to know where to start: from the completely over the top reaction to rain occurring at the wedding feast; to that cheesy scene where Slash forgets the ring only for Duff to produce it ('hey dude, isn't Slash the rock n' roll duffass''); to that scene in the pub where GN'R and Steph act like best of friends; to Axl's regal Elton John top; to the bit where Slash leaves the church, exiting the door - somehow! - now clad in leathers, to play a guitar on a cliff!Most, ironic and humorous, people's opinion on November Rain is reflected in the following parody which is loosely contemporary with the original video,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g06PuIaGLVo But of course MTV liked it. The teeny boppers and girlies liked it. The cliff part didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I always viewed the video as excessive, just like the band were back then. The band were huge, and Axl jumping off an oil tanker seemed like a big thing to do. It seemed like Axl wanting to self destruct. Then Slash rising out of the water, playing *that* solo - so f-cking epic Edited August 30, 2014 by star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Probably one of the worst music videos ever made. And it's long, so you go through all 7 stages of grief, except acceptance and hope. Hoped for someone to kill me when Axl jumped on a dolphin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrph5 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Of course looking at it today, that would be your opinion. Music videos are no big deal anymore. BACK THEN, going big was what it was about. Look at November rain, Thriller, etc. That was the thing to do back then. GNR were doing it right in the 80s and 90s. That is why they were huge and people wanted to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Diet Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 The making of is quite a good watchSlash played Fall To Pieces and Back and Forth Again bits and pieces on that video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Diet Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I thought it was pretty cool when I was 12 years old...then again Steven Seagal movies seemed pretty cool then too Same hereThe ifrst GNR video i ever saw was SIDHY when i was 5 years old. I always like the outro " beyond water" drum parts, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Diet Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) When people say this or that is a bad video, do they base their opinion on what exactly? On their studies in cinematography, photography and film? Do any of the people saying it is a bad video EVER wrote the script for any video documentary, short film or movie?Just wondering....NopeJust some people have some "proper" taste (a thing what many posters here are lacking when it comes to the videos) Anyway music videos are almost pointless now in rock music, so who the fuck cares? Edited August 30, 2014 by Crash Diet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl_Fetish Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I love the crazy, over the top trilogy videos. I still do, and I still wonder what the fuck is going on there.I think Estranged is so disjointed for an obvious reason: Stephanie Seymour had jumped ship ( ) by the time it was made, and Axlhad to deviate from the original plot plan... what ever that was. Personally, I can't see the connection between these videos and Del James' short story (wasn't the storyline for the trilogy supposed to have been based on Without You?)Anyway, for the peeps who like to dis Estranged... that's cool. But, at the time, it was only filmed because the band had promised it would be a trilogy... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't think it's that bad. It's well made. Since I don't have you has b movie quality. More interesting the garden video. Garden of Eden was interesting idea that worked but you can't rewatch it that often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 The best Illusion videos were the lower budget affairs, e.g. 'Garden of Eden' (probably the pick), 'The Garden', 'Yesterdays'. 'You Could Be Mine' was funny for the final scene. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyrobot Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 When people say this or that is a bad video, do they base their opinion on what exactly? On their studies in cinematography, photography and film? Do any of the people saying it is a bad video EVER wrote the script for any video documentary, short film or movie?Just wondering....So now you have to be a film director for even having an opinion about a video? The video is directed to average people and fans, I think their opinion is more important than any other.It's not like you have to be an expert musician before being able to like a song or not. Same with videos, imo.One thing is to like-dislike a video and another different is to raise yourself as an authority in video making and say this or that video is bad, wrongly directed, written, etc.Many in here are acting and criticizing as if they had ever made a musical video themselves.yeah, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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