1999 version of Chinese Democracy

[shotgunblues1978]

What are your thoughts on this version of the album? The 1999 version of IRS is pretty bad ass. Oh My God was a a good song, great lyrics, production/mix could've used some work. I prefer the new Catcher (the guitar work on the last verse is one of the best parts on the album), but the original was cool song if a bit bare, though the solo is nice. TWAT was improved immensely on the final version. We haven't heard the studios of CD, The Blues, Madagascar, Prostitute, etc. from back then, not to mention Atlas Shrugged.

Anyway how do you think the album would've been received if it dropped back then? I think the scrutiny would've been much less and it would've been "rawer" and far less "classic rock" sounding in terms of production/mix. I think the 2008 version is undoubtedly a better album in terms of the meticulous crafting and production, and the additions of Buckethead and Ron really elevated the guitarwork to a much higher level, but I'd still love to hear the 1999 version in its entirety and in good quality.

Edited May 5, 2012 by shotgunblues1978

[2x4]

Are these actually demos? Axl's vocals on all the demos are identical to the finished album.

[WhazUp]

I have always thought that the 1999 version of IRS completely smokes the final version. I prefer the final version of TWAT because of Bucket's solo but I dig the '99 version as well.

I feel the leak of CITR is better than the final version because it has a completely different vibe to it, but I would have to hear a better quality version of the leak before I can say regarding that one - the version floating around is worse quality than the other '99 leaks

[shotgunblues1978]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MCm67MpF3Y

[Bruno P.]

What are your thoughts on this version of the album? The 1999 version of IRS is pretty bad ass. Oh My God was a a good song, great lyrics, production/mix could've used some work. I prefer the new Catcher (the guitar work on the last verse is one of the best parts on the album), but the original was cool song if a bit bare, though the solo is nice. TWAT was improved immensely on the final version. We haven't heard the studios of CD, The Blues, Madagascar, Prostitute, etc. from back then, not to mention Atlas Shrugged.

Anyway how do you think the album would've been received if it dropped back then? I think the scrutiny would've been much less and it would've been "rawer" and far less "classic rock" sounding in terms of production/mix. I think the 2008 version is undoubtedly a better album in terms of the meticulous crafting and production, and the additions of Buckethead and Ron really elevated the guitarwork to a much higher level, but I'd still love to hear the 1999 version in its entirety and in good quality.

I love the album as it is. Most of the songs sounded, uh, unfinished back then. TWAT would be the biggest example, just like Catcher and Chinese Democracy - I was OK with it back then, now I fkn love it. Bucket and Ron brought the song to a new level imo - well, the whole album I'd say. I can't listen to Catcher without Ron's truly beautiful rhythm work and outro solo anymore. While I.R.S. sounded pretty good, the album version is much, much better. TWAT was an awesome song, but now it's one of the greatest GnR songs ever. Bucket's solo is awesome. Even Ron's rhythm throughout made the song much heavier and better. Maddy sounded pretty good, but Axl's raspy vocals made the song much better. SOD sounded great but the ending solo and Ron's rhythm gave the song a new life imo.

[phaeryen]

Axl should have gone with his original industrial angry futuro-vision of GNR all the way.

but because of that roy barker dude telling axl his stuff is crap he pussied out of it.

[Strange Broue]

If the album came out in 2001/2002, Axl and his new bandmates had a great chance to being "top of the world" again, imo.

We haven't heard the studios of CD

You can hear part of the song from the 2002 Boston show commercial promo (can't find on youtube but have on the bootleg)

also hear a little part of Madagascar

Edited May 5, 2012 by Motivation

[wasted]

or he saved it for Chinese Democracy II.

[Strange Broue]

I think the 2008 version is undoubtedly a better album in terms of the meticulous crafting and production

I disagree. The final versions of the songs is overproduced

[Strange Broue]

or he saved it for Chinese Democracy II.

lool

You mean Atlas shrugged?

I don't think we will ever have the 2000 intensions version of the songs.

[Dean]

I would love to hear a studio version of The Blues that had the guitars in the intro and the synth. Catcher from '99 is quality.

[GeetarMikey]

The chorus on TWAT sound IMMENSE! I was disappointed with the CD version because Axl's vocals seemed out of key, but sounds perfect on this version!

[TeeJay410]

I think the '99 version was probably the best he was ever going to do, save some buckethead solos and Better. The 8 or 9 year delay is just tinkering due to insecurity.

[Young_Gun]

I'm not entirely convinced these are from 1999. That said, I prefer the studio versions.

[bucketmaster101]

I for one personally love the '99 IRS... so much better than the studio, just has that something else. Oh My God is a great song as well... I would have loved to have had this in '99, but then I'm kind of happy we didn't as we got to hear BH lay down his stuff

xXx

[Coma16]

I for one personally love the '99 IRS... so much better than the studio, just has that something else. Oh My God is a great song as well... I would have loved to have had this in '99, but then I'm kind of happy we didn't as we got to hear BH lay down his stuff

xXx

This song is from late 90s, on the End of Days movie soundtrack. BH wasn't in the band back. Unless you are talking about IRS that is...

[phaeryen]

People underestimate the effect roy barker had, when he told axl his songs suck.

that is probably the second biggest reason for the 5+ year delay in the early 00's.

biggest reason is axl's own inability to perform at the mtv vma's, which was and still is quite hard for me to believe.

how he blew it infront of hundreds of millions of people live.

[vaida]

I have always thought that the 1999 version of IRS completely smokes the final version. I prefer the final version of TWAT because of Bucket's solo but I dig the '99 version as well.

I feel the leak of CITR is better than the final version because it has a completely different vibe to it, but I would have to hear a better quality version of the leak before I can say regarding that one - the version floating around is worse quality than the other '99 leaks

The album version of CITR blows compared to the Leaked version feat. Brian May.

The whole Kevin Sk.. leaks were better than the finnal mixed album.

[sweetness]

There Was A Time definitely sounds way better without that shitty intro that sounds like it was made in garageband

I think the final version of Catcher absolutely shits all over the demo. Honestly, Brian May's solo was unremarkable, I much prefer Bumblefoot's. The song as a whole just sounds so sluggish compared to the more colorful and upbeat final cut, if any song benefited from constant tweaking it was Catcher in the Rye

Edited May 5, 2012 by sweetness

[dickdasterdly10000]

I would happily hear both versions of the album !

[rumandraisin]

There was a time - Lacks the Buckethead solo but its still pretty cool, with the industrial loop Axl was going for. So, its just Paul and Robin on gutars on the first leak, maybe Axl in bits of it? I wish there was a bit on the finish album where you could safely say, "yep, thats Paul". Even live he was hard to pin point.

Catcher in the Rye - Besst example of Roy Thomas bAkers extensive rehaul of the project. Everything ended up being redone apart from the vocals, first the drums were re-recorded with Brain changing the feel of the track, Josh's drumming on this and IRS is very heavy, more glam and warmer. Then came re-doing the bass with different amps, adding more guitars when Robin came back, and Buckethead and Richard, although Bucets were errased after Bumblefoots guitars were added. More sound effects and orchestra overdubs followed, hey presto, completely different song. So strange.

IRS - There's two demos leaked of this, one has Buckethead and one is pre-Bucket. The first one has Josh on drums, the second has Brain aswell. Some nice spanish guitar nd drum machines on the intro to the one with Bucket/Brain, the two demos are fascinating to compare to eachother. The 2nd is stronger in my opinion, and has an additional 20 odd seconds. The first has that police siren noise which is cool, and its easier to work out who's doing what on guitars, eg the lead is Robin, the rhthym is Paul. The 2nd has different vocals, and features a Buckethead solo instead of Robin (listen to the killswitch at the very end of the solo).

Chinese Democracy - The demo of this is from around 2003-5. Pre-Bumblefoot but post 2002 as it had the extended intro and the guitar bits all over it. Has Brains cool drumming style, that double kick/hit thing going on. Actually prefer this to the album version, kicks fucking harder, less compressed and not too much guitar in the second verse.

The Blues - Well we dont have the original demo, but it would have had the drums in the intro with that guitar line that never seemed to fit. Instead we have the album version, over produced with TWO orchestras and that catchy bassline in the outro completely mixed down so you can barely hear it. But we do have an earlier demo circa 2004, pre-bumblefoot, featuring some more acoustic stuff in the opening verse. Whereas the the album has a very distinctive rhthym guitar from Bumblefoot, it actually kinda worries me how Bumblefoot did such simple things to the album giving it warmth and depth, common sense, yet none of those virtuoso guitarists thought of this?! o.O Strange. The demo has some different vocals in the outro and some extra drum/cymble crashes in the opening. Its ok, just a kinda of stripped down mix.

Better - Circa 2002, Better was first mentioned from in 2003 iirc when Axl spun some tracks at a strip club. This demo is easier to describe then the others. Take the album version, then remove Bumbles guitar overdubs, none of which were entirebly noticeble as it was only rhythm parts although if you listen around the 2 minute mark he's doing the melody on the guitar which is cool. Then there's the bridges, the drumming was replaced by the hard hitting Frank Ferrer along with the choruses, not quite sure why, seems like a waste of studio time. Then there's the second chorus which has different vocals, and some weird Buckethead techno thing going on. Much cooler. Not much else is that different to be honest.

Riad and the Bedouins - Bumblefoot replaced Buckets solo, not much else seems to be that different. The demo has a snippet pf weird vocals near the end. Thats about it, the Buckethead solo wasnt one of his best, alot of tapping, not very melodic, not that the Bumble solo was much better.

Oh My God - Axl claimed it was just a demo, i guess everything was back then in his eyes, but it does show you how quickly the band COULD work. It started life as a demo idea between Dizzy and paul in 1997, then forgotten about. In July 1999 the band finish it, Axl writes and adds vocals then its edited, mixed, mastered all within a few weeks. Sounds dreadfull, the quality, compared to the other songs on the sound track. Has some interesting parts, especially the pseudo disco bridge where you can really hear Pauls guitar work and the drum/bass combo is ball busting! Dj Ashba recently made that guitar line n the chorus so much more prominent and funky. No one quite knows who did the two solo's.

Silkworms - Apparently the chorus is gone, not that it was anything great, just that one line. Played at alternating speeds is 2001, the best version being the first time on NYE House of Blues, with the fierce synth opening and super fast aggressive metal behind Axl's venomous vocals. I imagine this'll sound so much better on the next album if there is one.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Ron and Buckethead made the songs sound better. I never understood the fuss about the demos, they sound cool but it really needed more to them.

Roy Thomas Baker did delay the album for several years and probably took up at least half the budget.

[Chimi]

There was a time - Lacks the Buckethead solo but its still pretty cool, with the industrial loop Axl was going for. So, its just Paul and Robin on gutars on the first leak, maybe Axl in bits of it? I wish there was a bit on the finish album where you could safely say, "yep, thats Paul". Even live he was hard to pin point.

Catcher in the Rye - Besst example of Roy Thomas bAkers extensive rehaul of the project. Everything ended up being redone apart from the vocals, first the drums were re-recorded with Brain changing the feel of the track, Josh's drumming on this and IRS is very heavy, more glam and warmer. Then came re-doing the bass with different amps, adding more guitars when Robin came back, and Buckethead and Richard, although Bucets were errased after Bumblefoots guitars were added. More sound effects and orchestra overdubs followed, hey presto, completely different song. So strange.

IRS - There's two demos leaked of this, one has Buckethead and one is pre-Bucket. The first one has Josh on drums, the second has Brain aswell. Some nice spanish guitar nd drum machines on the intro to the one with Bucket/Brain, the two demos are fascinating to compare to eachother. The 2nd is stronger in my opinion, and has an additional 20 odd seconds. The first has that police siren noise which is cool, and its easier to work out who's doing what on guitars, eg the lead is Robin, the rhthym is Paul. The 2nd has different vocals, and features a Buckethead solo instead of Robin (listen to the killswitch at the very end of the solo).

Chinese Democracy - The demo of this is from around 2003-5. Pre-Bumblefoot but post 2002 as it had the extended intro and the guitar bits all over it. Has Brains cool drumming style, that double kick/hit thing going on. Actually prefer this to the album version, kicks fucking harder, less compressed and not too much guitar in the second verse.

The Blues - Well we dont have the original demo, but it would have had the drums in the intro with that guitar line that never seemed to fit. Instead we have the album version, over produced with TWO orchestras and that catchy bassline in the outro completely mixed down so you can barely hear it. But we do have an earlier demo circa 2004, pre-bumblefoot, featuring some more acoustic stuff in the opening verse. Whereas the the album has a very distinctive rhthym guitar from Bumblefoot, it actually kinda worries me how Bumblefoot did such simple things to the album giving it warmth and depth, common sense, yet none of those virtuoso guitarists thought of this?! o.O Strange. The demo has some different vocals in the outro and some extra drum/cymble crashes in the opening. Its ok, just a kinda of stripped down mix.

Better - Circa 2002, Better was first mentioned from in 2003 iirc when Axl spun some tracks at a strip club. This demo is easier to describe then the others. Take the album version, then remove Bumbles guitar overdubs, none of which were entirebly noticeble as it was only rhythm parts although if you listen around the 2 minute mark he's doing the melody on the guitar which is cool. Then there's the bridges, the drumming was replaced by the hard hitting Frank Ferrer along with the choruses, not quite sure why, seems like a waste of studio time. Then there's the second chorus which has different vocals, and some weird Buckethead techno thing going on. Much cooler. Not much else is that different to be honest.

Riad and the Bedouins - Bumblefoot replaced Buckets solo, not much else seems to be that different. The demo has a snippet pf weird vocals near the end. Thats about it, the Buckethead solo wasnt one of his best, alot of tapping, not very melodic, not that the Bumble solo was much better.

Oh My God - Axl claimed it was just a demo, i guess everything was back then in his eyes, but it does show you how quickly the band COULD work. It started life as a demo idea between Dizzy and paul in 1997, then forgotten about. In July 1999 the band finish it, Axl writes and adds vocals then its edited, mixed, mastered all within a few weeks. Sounds dreadfull, the quality, compared to the other songs on the sound track. Has some interesting parts, especially the pseudo disco bridge where you can really hear Pauls guitar work and the drum/bass combo is ball busting! Dj Ashba recently made that guitar line n the chorus so much more prominent and funky. No one quite knows who did the two solo's.

Silkworms - Apparently the chorus is gone, not that it was anything great, just that one line. Played at alternating speeds is 2001, the best version being the first time on NYE House of Blues, with the fierce synth opening and super fast aggressive metal behind Axl's venomous vocals. I imagine this'll sound so much better on the next album if there is one.

Is there a newer version of Oh My god floating around? Just curious as you mention Ashba...

[Voodoochild]

You got lots of things wrong, man.

There was a time - Lacks the Buckethead solo but its still pretty cool, with the industrial loop Axl was going for. So, its just Paul and Robin on gutars on the first leak, maybe Axl in bits of it? I wish there was a bit on the finish album where you could safely say, "yep, thats Paul". Even live he was hard to pin point.

Paul is on that lead riff in Madagascar in the final version - done by Richard live.

Catcher in the Rye - Besst example of Roy Thomas bAkers extensive rehaul of the project. Everything ended up being redone apart from the vocals, first the drums were re-recorded with Brain changing the feel of the track, Josh's drumming on this and IRS is very heavy, more glam and warmer. Then came re-doing the bass with different amps, adding more guitars when Robin came back, and Buckethead and Richard, although Bucets were errased after Bumblefoots guitars were added. More sound effects and orchestra overdubs followed, hey presto, completely different song. So strange.

Not everything was redone. Robin's lead and some of Paul's rhythm are on the album version. We never heard any demo with Bucket and I find hard to believe that there is one.

IRS - There's two demos leaked of this, one has Buckethead and one is pre-Bucket. The first one has Josh on drums, the second has Brain aswell. Some nice spanish guitar nd drum machines on the intro to the one with Bucket/Brain, the two demos are fascinating to compare to eachother. The 2nd is stronger in my opinion, and has an additional 20 odd seconds. The first has that police siren noise which is cool, and its easier to work out who's doing what on guitars, eg the lead is Robin, the rhthym is Paul. The 2nd has different vocals, and features a Buckethead solo instead of Robin (listen to the killswitch at the very end of the solo).

What 20 additional seconds? The difference between the two is the tempo: seems like the 1999 demo was recorded from a cassete tape, which explains the hicups on the tempo. And, as far as I know, the vocals was always the same.

But we do have an earlier demo circa 2004, pre-bumblefoot, featuring some more acoustic stuff in the opening verse.

the Buckethead accoustic is still the same, nothing has changed on that.

Better - Circa 2002, Better was first mentioned from in 2003 iirc when Axl spun some tracks at a strip club.

Better was only mentioned in 2006, about a month before it leaked.

Riad and the Bedouins - Bumblefoot replaced Buckets solo, not much else seems to be that different. The demo has a snippet pf weird vocals near the end. Thats about it, the Buckethead solo wasnt one of his best, alot of tapping, not very melodic, not that the Bumble solo was much better.

Lots of things different. There is a new intro (with that stolen sample), Bumblefoot did rhythm with some licks all over the song, throwing Robin's rhythm to the left channel mixed with Paul Tobias (which made the song lose its fat and groovy sound IMO). And the original solo was made by Robin and Bucket.

Oh My God - Axl claimed it was just a demo, i guess everything was back then in his eyes, but it does show you how quickly the band COULD work. It started life as a demo idea between Dizzy and paul in 1997, then forgotten about. In July 1999 the band finish it, Axl writes and adds vocals then its edited, mixed, mastered all within a few weeks. Sounds dreadfull, the quality, compared to the other songs on the sound track. Has some interesting parts, especially the pseudo disco bridge where you can really hear Pauls guitar work and the drum/bass combo is ball busting! Dj Ashba recently made that guitar line n the chorus so much more prominent and funky. No one quite knows who did the two solo's.

Where did you get this thing about DJ's guitar line in the chorys? And if youre asking about who did the two solos in the demo, its 1st Dave Navarro and 2nd half is Paul Tobias.

Silkworms - Apparently the chorus is gone, not that it was anything great, just that one line. Played at alternating speeds is 2001, the best version being the first time on NYE House of Blues, with the fierce synth opening and super fast aggressive metal behind Axl's venomous vocals. I imagine this'll sound so much better on the next album if there is one.

Indeed, I agree with everything on this.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I don't think Buckethead ever worked on Catcher in the Rye. Only Robin, Paul and Ron recorded for the final track with Ron replacing Brian's leads and adding rythmn tracks.