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Drayvin

History Channel Hatin on Axl.....

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Holy shit I'm beginning to think this forum (and the other) + Sebastian Bach, Beta and Fernando are literally everyone that likes Axl :tongue2:

And Bucket, they used to see Disney movies together every year. :rolleyes:

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Are you denying all the good things that have happened in the last four years (new record, tours, interviews, streams, web page) or do you admit you exaggerated when you claimed that "the ship is being continuously steered in a circle" and "is not going anywhere"? You have already admitted things were worse in the dark ages, so you have actually already agreed that things are better now. It is not a big step to take...

And yet the live shows are virtually the same setlist in 2012, as they were in 2001. It's still basically the Chinese Democracy World Tour, going in a circle.

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Are you denying all the good things that have happened in the last four years (new record, tours, interviews, streams, web page) or do you admit you exaggerated when you claimed that "the ship is being continuously steered in a circle" and "is not going anywhere"? You have already admitted things were worse in the dark ages, so you have actually already agreed that things are better now. It is not a big step to take...

And yet the live shows are virtually the same setlist in 2012, as they were in 2001. It's still basically the Chinese Democracy World Tour, going in a circle.

So in other words you concede your point that the band is without direction and going in circles -- good! -- but rather modify yourself to saying that the setlists are more or less the same. My reply to that is that with GN'R's strong back catalogue the setlists will never change fundamentally; there will always be a core set of songs while a portion of the set changes regularly with new songs added as the band releases music -- just as we have seen in the period since 2001 (in 2012 we've had 4-5 "new" songs added). This doesn't mean that the band isn't moving forward, as you claimed at first, it means that the band understands what the audiences want to hear. We can hope that as the band releases more music, new classic will emerge and replace old classics, but this takes a lot of time.

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Are you denying all the good things that have happened in the last four years (new record, tours, interviews, streams, web page) or do you admit you exaggerated when you claimed that "the ship is being continuously steered in a circle" and "is not going anywhere"? You have already admitted things were worse in the dark ages, so you have actually already agreed that things are better now. It is not a big step to take...

And yet the live shows are virtually the same setlist in 2012, as they were in 2001. It's still basically the Chinese Democracy World Tour, going in a circle.

So in other words you concede your point that the band is without direction and going in circles -- good! -- but rather modify yourself to saying that the setlists are more or less the same. My reply to that is that with GN'R's strong back catalogue the setlists will never change fundamentally; there will always be a core set of songs while a portion of the set changes regularly with new songs added as the band releases music -- just as we have seen in the period since 2001 (in 2012 we've had 4-5 "new" songs added). This doesn't mean that the band isn't moving forward, as you claimed at first, it means that the band understands what the audiences want to hear. We can hope that as the band releases more music, new classic will emerge and replace old classics, but this takes a lot of time.

Once again you want to twist my words around to fit your narrow criteria what I meant in my post. I have acknowledged that things have been better between 2008 and now, you have acknowledged that the band is not moving full speed ahead in a specific direction. But no, I do not concede my point at all. With regard to setlists, we've all been through this a million times. I am not one of those people arguing that they shouldn't play a whole bunch of old songs in shows. This is only a small portion of the overall argument that the band is without direction, and going in a circle.

but this takes a lot of time

Heh. Yes it does, there are obviously all kinds of big bands out there that spend 15+ years on every record release and tour.

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Are you denying all the good things that have happened in the last four years (new record, tours, interviews, streams, web page) or do you admit you exaggerated when you claimed that "the ship is being continuously steered in a circle" and "is not going anywhere"? You have already admitted things were worse in the dark ages, so you have actually already agreed that things are better now. It is not a big step to take...

And yet the live shows are virtually the same setlist in 2012, as they were in 2001. It's still basically the Chinese Democracy World Tour, going in a circle.

So in other words you concede your point that the band is without direction and going in circles -- good! -- but rather modify yourself to saying that the setlists are more or less the same. My reply to that is that with GN'R's strong back catalogue the setlists will never change fundamentally; there will always be a core set of songs while a portion of the set changes regularly with new songs added as the band releases music -- just as we have seen in the period since 2001 (in 2012 we've had 4-5 "new" songs added). This doesn't mean that the band isn't moving forward, as you claimed at first, it means that the band understands what the audiences want to hear. We can hope that as the band releases more music, new classic will emerge and replace old classics, but this takes a lot of time.

Once again you want to twist my words around to fit your narrow criteria what I meant in my post. I have acknowledged that things have been better between 2008 and now, you have acknowledged that the band is not moving full speed ahead in a specific direction. But no, I do not concede my point at all. With regard to setlists, we've all been through this a million times. I am not one of those people arguing that they shouldn't play a whole bunch of old songs in shows. This is only a small portion of the overall argument that the band is without direction, and going in a circle.

But surely you realize that by "not moving forward" no progress is detectable? And surely you admit that releasing a record, playing lots of successful tour, doing live stream, Axl doing interviews, and launching a new web site, are indications of progress? Just admit you are unhappy about what is going on but that you exaggerated the situation by saying that there's been no progress in the last few years. People are reading this and will judge your future posts based on your ability to admit being wrong.

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Are you denying all the good things that have happened in the last four years (new record, tours, interviews, streams, web page) or do you admit you exaggerated when you claimed that "the ship is being continuously steered in a circle" and "is not going anywhere"? You have already admitted things were worse in the dark ages, so you have actually already agreed that things are better now. It is not a big step to take...

And yet the live shows are virtually the same setlist in 2012, as they were in 2001. It's still basically the Chinese Democracy World Tour, going in a circle.

So in other words you concede your point that the band is without direction and going in circles -- good! -- but rather modify yourself to saying that the setlists are more or less the same. My reply to that is that with GN'R's strong back catalogue the setlists will never change fundamentally; there will always be a core set of songs while a portion of the set changes regularly with new songs added as the band releases music -- just as we have seen in the period since 2001 (in 2012 we've had 4-5 "new" songs added). This doesn't mean that the band isn't moving forward, as you claimed at first, it means that the band understands what the audiences want to hear. We can hope that as the band releases more music, new classic will emerge and replace old classics, but this takes a lot of time.

Once again you want to twist my words around to fit your narrow criteria what I meant in my post. I have acknowledged that things have been better between 2008 and now, you have acknowledged that the band is not moving full speed ahead in a specific direction. But no, I do not concede my point at all. With regard to setlists, we've all been through this a million times. I am not one of those people arguing that they shouldn't play a whole bunch of old songs in shows. This is only a small portion of the overall argument that the band is without direction, and going in a circle.

But surely you realize that by "not moving forward" no progress is detectable? And surely you admit that releasing a record, playing lots of successful tour, doing live stream, Axl doing interviews, and launching a new web site, are indications of progress? Just admit you are unhappy about what is going on but that you exaggerated the situation by saying that there's been no progress in the last few years. People are reading this and will judge your future posts based on your ability to admit being wrong.

pwned.

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does anyone else think soulmonster needs to find something better to do with his time than argue with the entire board endlessly and all day long? he argues like a 5 year old. it seems he does nothing all day except cupcake these forums, and he has the maturity of a preschooler, and yet he claims to have a PhD. :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol:

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does anyone else think soulmonster needs to find something better to do with his time than argue with the entire board endlessly and all day long? he argues like a 5 year old. it seems he does nothing all day except cupcake these forums, and he has the maturity of a preschooler, and yet he claims to have a PhD. :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol:

It's funny because his arguments are legitimate, and he doesn't bash people while doing it. Like you're bashing him now. You should look in the mirror before throwing stones.

Edited by iftheworld

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Are you denying all the good things that have happened in the last four years (new record, tours, interviews, streams, web page) or do you admit you exaggerated when you claimed that "the ship is being continuously steered in a circle" and "is not going anywhere"? You have already admitted things were worse in the dark ages, so you have actually already agreed that things are better now. It is not a big step to take...

And yet the live shows are virtually the same setlist in 2012, as they were in 2001. It's still basically the Chinese Democracy World Tour, going in a circle.

So in other words you concede your point that the band is without direction and going in circles -- good! -- but rather modify yourself to saying that the setlists are more or less the same. My reply to that is that with GN'R's strong back catalogue the setlists will never change fundamentally; there will always be a core set of songs while a portion of the set changes regularly with new songs added as the band releases music -- just as we have seen in the period since 2001 (in 2012 we've had 4-5 "new" songs added). This doesn't mean that the band isn't moving forward, as you claimed at first, it means that the band understands what the audiences want to hear. We can hope that as the band releases more music, new classic will emerge and replace old classics, but this takes a lot of time.

Once again you want to twist my words around to fit your narrow criteria what I meant in my post. I have acknowledged that things have been better between 2008 and now, you have acknowledged that the band is not moving full speed ahead in a specific direction. But no, I do not concede my point at all. With regard to setlists, we've all been through this a million times. I am not one of those people arguing that they shouldn't play a whole bunch of old songs in shows. This is only a small portion of the overall argument that the band is without direction, and going in a circle.

But surely you realize that by "not moving forward" no progress is detectable? And surely you admit that releasing a record, playing lots of successful tour, doing live stream, Axl doing interviews, and launching a new web site, are indications of progress? Just admit you are unhappy about what is going on but that you exaggerated the situation by saying that there's been no progress in the last few years. People are reading this and will judge your future posts based on your ability to admit being wrong.

Nope. I didn't say any such thing, you did. In fact, I said the opposite, that they are moving ... in a circle. Releasing a record that appears to have been forced out and should have been released years before, playing tours that are less and less successful, and essentially doing the same show since 2001, Axl doing 2 interviews in 4 years, are not signs of any real and significant "progress". GNR has had websites before. This new site has so far offered very little substance. You continue to ignore the fact that Axl himself said that one of the "reasons" for spending so much time in the studio from 1999 to 2008 was specifically so that they could release new music while continuing to tour.

Yes the live streams are a new wrinkle and a damn cool idea.

If GNR is truly "moving forward" at full-speed ahead, man the torpedoes, this is the best they can do ... then GNR is finished as anything other than a nostalgia act.

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Are you denying all the good things that have happened in the last four years (new record, tours, interviews, streams, web page) or do you admit you exaggerated when you claimed that "the ship is being continuously steered in a circle" and "is not going anywhere"? You have already admitted things were worse in the dark ages, so you have actually already agreed that things are better now. It is not a big step to take...

And yet the live shows are virtually the same setlist in 2012, as they were in 2001. It's still basically the Chinese Democracy World Tour, going in a circle.

So in other words you concede your point that the band is without direction and going in circles -- good! -- but rather modify yourself to saying that the setlists are more or less the same. My reply to that is that with GN'R's strong back catalogue the setlists will never change fundamentally; there will always be a core set of songs while a portion of the set changes regularly with new songs added as the band releases music -- just as we have seen in the period since 2001 (in 2012 we've had 4-5 "new" songs added). This doesn't mean that the band isn't moving forward, as you claimed at first, it means that the band understands what the audiences want to hear. We can hope that as the band releases more music, new classic will emerge and replace old classics, but this takes a lot of time.

Once again you want to twist my words around to fit your narrow criteria what I meant in my post. I have acknowledged that things have been better between 2008 and now, you have acknowledged that the band is not moving full speed ahead in a specific direction. But no, I do not concede my point at all. With regard to setlists, we've all been through this a million times. I am not one of those people arguing that they shouldn't play a whole bunch of old songs in shows. This is only a small portion of the overall argument that the band is without direction, and going in a circle.

But surely you realize that by "not moving forward" no progress is detectable? And surely you admit that releasing a record, playing lots of successful tour, doing live stream, Axl doing interviews, and launching a new web site, are indications of progress? Just admit you are unhappy about what is going on but that you exaggerated the situation by saying that there's been no progress in the last few years. People are reading this and will judge your future posts based on your ability to admit being wrong.

Nope. I didn't say any such thing, you did. In fact, I said the opposite, that they are moving ... in a circle. Releasing a record that appears to have been forced out and should have been released years before, playing tours that are less and less successful, and essentially doing the same show since 2001, Axl doing 2 interviews in 4 years, are not signs of any real and significant "progress". GNR has had websites before. This new site has so far offered very little substance. You continue to ignore the fact that Axl himself said that one of the "reasons" for spending so much time in the studio from 1999 to 2008 was specifically so that they could release new music while continuing to tour.

Yes the live streams are a new wrinkle and a damn cool idea.

If GNR is truly "moving forward" at full-speed ahead, man the torpedoes, this is the best they can do ... then GNR is finished as anything other than a nostalgia act.

So you are saying that "moving in a circle" is the opposite of "not moving forward"? Hmm ;).

Again you are arguing that the progress we have seen has been limited, ignoring the fact that you claimed there had been no progress at all, thus claiming that the situation after 2008 is identical to the situation prior to 2008 (an astonishing thing to say to all of us who were actively following the band in those miserable years). Tell me, isn't the release of a record progress compared to not releasing music at all? Isn't that a move in the right direction? Or are you of the opinion that releasing Chinese Democracy brought the band back to pre-2008 status? ;) New music is just of no value to you and your opinion is that a band's purpose is something qualitatively different than recording and releasing music? ;) You either have a profoundly different view on what a band is supposed to do than, well, everyone else, or you are willing to say any kinds of things to avoid admitting being wrong initially, both of which are fascinating explanations for what you are doing now.

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So you are saying that "moving in a circle" is the opposite of "not moving forward"? Hmm ;).

Again you are arguing that the progress we have seen has been limited, ignoring the fact that you claimed there had been no progress at all, thus claiming that the situation after 2008 is identical to the situation prior to 2008 (an astonishing thing to say to all of us who were actively following the band in those miserable years). Tell me, isn't the release of a record progress compared to not releasing music at all? Isn't that a move in the right direction? Or are you of the opinion that releasing Chinese Democracy brought the band back to pre-2008 status? ;) New music is just of no value to you and your opinion is that a band's purpose is something qualitatively different than recording and releasing music? ;) You either have a profoundly different view on what a band is supposed to do than, well, everyone else, or you are willing to say any kinds of things to avoid admitting being wrong initially, both of which are fascinating explanations for what you are doing now.

This is a pretty bizarre set of statements, even coming from somebody like you who really seems to enjoy playing these semantics word games. I never said there has been "no progress at all", never said the situation after 2008 is "identical" to the situation before 2008, never said new music is of "no value".

Releasing Chinese Democracy was obviously intended to be a move "forward". In 2008. I have taken the liberty of including a calendar page below so that you can see what year we are currently living in.

may2012.jpg

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So you are saying that "moving in a circle" is the opposite of "not moving forward"? Hmm ;).

Again you are arguing that the progress we have seen has been limited, ignoring the fact that you claimed there had been no progress at all, thus claiming that the situation after 2008 is identical to the situation prior to 2008 (an astonishing thing to say to all of us who were actively following the band in those miserable years). Tell me, isn't the release of a record progress compared to not releasing music at all? Isn't that a move in the right direction? Or are you of the opinion that releasing Chinese Democracy brought the band back to pre-2008 status? ;) New music is just of no value to you and your opinion is that a band's purpose is something qualitatively different than recording and releasing music? ;) You either have a profoundly different view on what a band is supposed to do than, well, everyone else, or you are willing to say any kinds of things to avoid admitting being wrong initially, both of which are fascinating explanations for what you are doing now.

This is a pretty bizarre set of statements, even coming from somebody like you who really seems to enjoy playing these semantics word games. I never said there has been "no progress at all", never said the situation after 2008 is "identical" to the situation before 2008, never said new music is of "no value".

You have said that the band during the last four years has only moved in circles, hence that no progress has taken place at all. During these four years the band released a new record. This can only mean that you don't consider the release of a record being progress for a band.

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And who gives a flying fuck if the History Channel mentions Axl's weight? :sleeper:

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