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Vincent Vega

Do you think Axl ever regrets keeping the name?

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AXL ROSE - no wife,no kids,most of the fans dont care about CD

the GNR name is the only thing he has :violin:

and Axl has you ... talking about him and taking care about his life :kiss:

:rofl-lol: :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol:

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That's how I feel seeing DJ play Sweet Child O Mine or Better. Ron playing Estranged. It wouldn't be so cringeworthy if they weren't pretending to be GNR while doing it. Under Axl solo playing these songs wouldn't be bad.

Unless you felt the same way in '91 when Matt and Gilby were playing, I find your logic to be extremely inconsistent.

No, none of them acknowledge that Matt and Gilby are replacements. These fuckers consider the UYI lineup to be an extension of "original GnR," which is so annoying, especially for me because I was there. Somehow, Matt and Gilby get put on a magical pedestal.

You guys just try so hard to bash/insult anybody who isn't worshipping your idol.

Gilby and Matt are on a magical pedestal? You must have your forums mixed up. I've never heard anybody say they prefered Gilby over Izzy. And the Matt-Steven ratio is about 50/50 on this forum. And pretty much everybody has acknowleged that they were replacements over Steven and Izzy. Maybe one forum member out of a 100 doesn't - but you present it like EVERYBODY thinks that. Weird.

This is one of the reasons that nobody takes the Axl worshippers that seriously. You over exagerated - and really, flat out lie about things to try and make your points.

People who lie, over-exagerate, insult only due so because their point isn't strong enough. Which is what you and your Axl Worship Crew do on a daily basis.

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No, none of them acknowledge that Matt and Gilby are replacements. These fuckers consider the UYI lineup to be an extension of "original GnR," which is so annoying, especially for me because I was there. Somehow, Matt and Gilby get put on a magical pedestal.

Well, I do consider the UYI lineup to be an extension of AFD era GNR just as I consider the CD lineup to be an extension of UYI era GNR. Paul Huge co-wrote multiple songs released during the UYI era and recorded on the final song released by the classic band. Creatively, he contributed more to the classic band than Gilby ever did. The Axl/Dizzy/Paul/Slash/Duff/Matt lineup was truer to GNR's roots than Axl/Dizzy/Gilby/Slash/Duff/Matt was.

And when Slash, Duff and Matt leave, kudos to Axl, Dizzy and Paul for choosing to continue on. Why should Axl regret using the GNR name for a record that was made by the remaining members of GNR? Why should he have released it under his own name when there were two others who stuck around as well and made the record?

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No. I think Axl has gotten the best musicians to be in GNR now so I think he's proud to still have the GNR name for his band.

To me, Axl Rose will always be Guns N Roses, so he deserves to keep the name!

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It limits him musically because he's forced to tailor his music to make it sound more like GN'R.

Did you listen to CD?

GN'R doesn't really have a consistent sound. This is why they are my favorite band.

Edited by Sweersa

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This may not necessarily be a bad thing. Think of the George Lucas effect.

I think is a bad thing. Let's say after Slash left, Axl and Duff, who were now the last remaining original members, decided to simply break the GN'R name up rather than continue it, and Axl either started a new band, or went solo, he'd have had creative freedom. I kind of want to see what a solo Axl record inspired by Grunge and Industrial would've sounded like. But in keeping the name there were certain expectations and I believe the CD we eventually got is a compromise between his more experimental side and a "GN'R-ish" sound. He himself said if he ever went solo his works would be a lot more experimental, a lot more instrumental, etc. That would imply that when working with the GN'R name, he feels there's certain borders or a certain sort of rubric of what makes the GN'R sound, to him. Something that'd be different from a pure, unadulterated record unaffected by both the burden of the name, and massive anticipation. I also think he'd have had things a lot easier if he'd just went the solo route or started a totally new band--Easier as far as the label, as far as the fans, as far as the demands and pressure. Yeah, he makes more money using the GN'R name, I get it. But I'm talking more on a creative end here. Consider how in this very thread someone said that their perspective on new members is framed by the fact that they're playing under the "GUNS N' ROSES" name, and that in essence they'd accept the players more if they were playing with Axl under a different name--That is what I'm talking about, that sort of thing. With a new band, or going solo, there wouldn't be any baggage, any major pressure, any demands from the label really outside of the norm, and fans would be more accepting. It'd have allowed Axl to really get whatever he wanted to do out of his system like Slash, Duff, Izzy and Gilby all did. They all went into their solo projects while in GN'R to reduce their level of stress, as well as because it was less limiting creatively, and it worked out for them.

Axl had a vision and ideas and released part of that vision when he released Oh My God. Oh My God was released under the Guns N' Roses name, but it didn't sound like "Guns N' Roses" and hence the public didn't accept it--And actually shunned it because they were expecting "Guns N' Roses" to sound like the UYIs or AFD. And so Axl went back and apparently made two or three different versions of CD and tailored/curtailed his own creative vision to better suit what people would expect from a "GN'R record". Perhaps if OMG had been released under his own name, people would've responded to it better as it wouldn't have all the expectations, baggage and preconceived feelings that people associate with the name "GUNS N' Roses". It wouldn't have been judged as an "Axl as the last man standing in GN'R" song, but simply as a solo work by Axl Rose, who was well known to be really into industrial.

People wouldn't hate Axl as much, or hate his band, or hate the concerts, or hate what he puts out as much if it didn't have the name GN'R attached. For many people that name is attached to a lot of memories, a lot of preconceived notions, a lot of memories, and a lot of feelings about what GN'R means and what it should be. You wouldn't see the rancor that many here hold for the man if he'd never made a "new GNR". And I think (and I believe Marc Canter also said this at some point), if Axl had went solo, we would've had more albums released.

Yes, I know about what he's said of his musical directions. That's why I think the 'GNR compromise' is a good thing. Oh My God was what I had in mind too, and I think it was pretty amazing and I like that style (along with Riad, TWAT and Madagascar which I think follow somewhat similar approaches), but I see these as the compromise. Without the GNR name in the 90s I think he would've tried some things, like numetal or rap, that would've proved really bad ideas.

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You guys just try so hard to bash/insult anybody who isn't worshipping your idol.

Actually I'm not trying that hard.

Gilby and Matt are on a magical pedestal? You must have your forums mixed up. I've never heard anybody say they prefered Gilby over Izzy.

Where in my post did I say anybody preferred Gilby over Izzy? You must have your definition of "magical pedestal" mixed up.

And the Matt-Steven ratio is about 50/50 on this forum. And pretty much everybody has acknowleged that they were replacements over Steven and Izzy.

That's not the point. What *some* people won't acknowledge is that the Use Your Illusion lineup is like the Chinese Democracy lineup, which is, *aha!* like the Hollywood Rose lineup too: they all are not the AFD lineup, which most consider to be the "original GnR" lineup. S'all I'm sayin.

This is one of the reasons that nobody takes the Axl worshippers that seriously. You over exagerated - and really, flat out lie about things to try and make your points.

I apologize for referring to unnamed vaguely described unidentified people as "fuckers" in my earlier post. Please accept my sincerest heartfelt regret for callously disregarding internet etiquette protocols.
People who lie, over-exagerate, insult only due so because their point isn't strong enough. Which is what you and your Axl Worship Crew do on a daily basis.
Yeah well at least Axl's proponents don't create zillions of alt accounts and organize pseudo-meta trolling wannabe epic bullshit. There have been documented cases of organized trolling by members of another site. You cannot dispute this. It is publically readable. So you tell me who's lying, exaggerating, and insulting more.

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Do you think Axl has ever regretted keeping the GN'R name--even just for a moment? IMO, it's hurt him more than helped him.

At every turn, EVERYTHING he does will ALWAYS be compared to the old band, whether it be live shows, the members of the band being compared to Slash, Izzy, Duff, etc, CD being put up against the old albums etc.

It limits him musically because he's forced to tailor his music to make it sound more like GN'R.

He's forced to rely on setlists which heavily feature old GNR songs because most people going to a "GUNS N' ROSES" show will want and expect the old songs; If he doesn't play all the old hits from the old band, people would be disappointed. When the new band does play them, they're criticized and bashed if they don't play the songs note for note like the originals.

Every band member he hires has and will be negatively compared to the old band members--And they get tons of abuse, hate and negativity thrown toward them just for joining the band.

Not only that, but if he ever decides to make another record, he has the immense pressure of making a record that lives up to and is worthy of the GN'R name. He has to "show" Slash and the others that he can succeed as Guns because of his psychological complexes.

If GN'R had just broken up in 1996 and Axl had started a new band or went solo, he would've been much freer to make whatever kind of music he wanted, play whatever songs he chose to live, we probably would've had several albums from him by now, there wouldn't have been as much anticipation and label pressure, members of an Axl band wouldn't have been as compared to Slash and the others. He wouldn't have had the burden of "being GN'R" all by himself. He could've fully indulged all his creative desires without the pressure of making a "GN'R album", which might've resulted in some really awesome stuff which was made more organically. And he wouldn't be as hated as he is. People don't hate him so much for GNR's breakup, but for continuing to use the GN'R name after everyone else left. It's like the Beatles break up. Paul arguably was the main force in the Beatles' break up but no one hates him because he went on to make some good music on his own and he didn't tour with faceless musicians as The Beatles. If GNR had formally broken up in '96 and Axl started his own project, it'd be the same.

In the end, keeping the name has cost him more in terms of creative freedom, in terms of expectations, in terms of his reputation and legacy, and in terms of label bullshit than if he just went solo. Yeah he makes more money but surely as a musician all the other problems outweigh the money aspect. I do wonder if it ever crosses his mind and if he ever does feel the GNR name is more a curse than a blessing?

Sir Numbnutalot, you ask us if Axl Rose ever regrets keeping a band name with -his- name in it?

:rofl-lol:

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You guys just try so hard to bash/insult anybody who isn't worshipping your idol.

Actually I'm not trying that hard.

Gilby and Matt are on a magical pedestal? You must have your forums mixed up. I've never heard anybody say they prefered Gilby over Izzy.

Where in my post did I say anybody preferred Gilby over Izzy? You must have your definition of "magical pedestal" mixed up.

And the Matt-Steven ratio is about 50/50 on this forum. And pretty much everybody has acknowleged that they were replacements over Steven and Izzy.

That's not the point. What *some* people won't acknowledge is that the Use Your Illusion lineup is like the Chinese Democracy lineup, which is, *aha!* like the Hollywood Rose lineup too: they all are not the AFD lineup, which most consider to be the "original GnR" lineup. S'all I'm sayin.

This is one of the reasons that nobody takes the Axl worshippers that seriously. You over exagerated - and really, flat out lie about things to try and make your points.

I apologize for referring to unnamed vaguely described unidentified people as "fuckers" in my earlier post. Please accept my sincerest heartfelt regret for callously disregarding internet etiquette protocols.
People who lie, over-exagerate, insult only due so because their point isn't strong enough. Which is what you and your Axl Worship Crew do on a daily basis.
Yeah well at least Axl's proponents don't create zillions of alt accounts and organize pseudo-meta trolling wannabe epic bullshit. There have been documented cases of organized trolling by members of another site. You cannot dispute this. It is publically readable. So you tell me who's lying, exaggerating, and insulting more.

Some of those responses are so off base from what you originally said that I'm not going to respond. I'm actually shaking my head at your ability to change the "meaning" of things that you originally say, once somebody calls you on it. But whatever.

One point is interesting to me though.

The difference between the CD band and the Illusions band is huge - a fact that you seem to disagree with.

So let's walk though it.

When the band came on stage during the Illusions, with Gilby and Sorum, we still had the main power base of GnR. We still had Axl, Duff and Slash on stage. And at that point, people still had thoughts that Izzy would probably be a part of the band - even if it was in just writing and studio work.

And the band was playing Appetite, Lies and Illusions material. Songs that Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy all had a hand in writing. And all of those guys had a hand in songs from Illusions as well.

When the band walks on stage in 2012, this is the representation

Appetite..........Axl

Lies.............Axl

Blue Illusion.......Axl

Red Illusion..........Axl

CD...........Axl and..............to be honest, I don't even know exactly who wrote what songs. So Finck and Bucket wrote songs, but they aren't in the band. Which drummer wrote the drum parts for the album? Did BBF write anything for CD, or did he just cover other people's work? I know Ashba played no part in writing/creating CD.

Put your Axl worshipping glasses aside for one topic. Yes, the band has had changes in it since the classic band was together. No doubt. Izzy and Gilby. Steven and Matt.

But to compare those line-up changes to the disfunction that has been GnR the last decade is just silly.

Fortus and Stintson have been with this line-up for a super long time. But they clearly haven't contributed as much to the GnR legacy/history as Slash and Duff have. Surely you can admit that.

I just think it is ridiculous and silly to compare the line-up changes in Axl's version of GnR to the changes that happened with the classic line-up.

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i dont think he has any regrets and he shouldnt have any

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I think that in the moment (whenever it was) that he gave up on his super-ambitious trilogy project and realized he was lucky to release CD in 2008, there must have been some doubt.

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I think it's more what the label wants. Otherwise the band would probably release a triple album in one go.

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I asked Axl this very question, his response was...

"I don't regret keeping the name, though I wish more were supportive or at least not as aggressively opposed."

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I didn't read all the responses, so if this has been posted before, forgive. I think that he is kind of like GW Bush. His narccism will prevent any regrets.

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He will never regret anything that he feels is someone else's fault. Which seems to be everything.

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I think so.

If Axl was confident in his musical abilities he would have released a few albums since Slash and company left. Instead it's been over a decade of nostalgic touring of the greatest hits. Think about it. He's relying on his former bandmates to keep the band going. If he truly didn't regret the decision to keep the name, he would have taken it to a new direction. He really hasn't. Chinese Democracy isn't an exception. That album was pushed by the label and Azoff more than anything, and I'm pretty sure Axl's lawsuit shows that.

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If Axl was confident in his musical abilities he would have released a few albums since Slash and company left.

There are countless possible reasons for why Axl has only released one album since Slash left GNR. How could any of us know if "lack of confidence in his musical abilities" is the reason?!?

Does it ever occur to you that if you weren't so miserable that maybe you wouldn't always assume the worst about other people?

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No, I don't think he does - at worst, it's been a useful kick-start to post-Slash Guns. And, truthully, I don't know how many would care about Chinese Democracy if it had been released by a band under a new name.

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From a business perspective keeping the GNR name was the smart thing to do, without it he wouldn't be generating as much revenue.

However it's really quite odd for Axl to often emphasize his desire to "move on" and leave his pre-1994 days in the past, while simultaneously using the band name made famous by that same pre-1994 period, a band name that will always be identified by that time period and those bandmates, many of whom he no longer wishes to associate with or even acknowledge.

I mean seriously, you really want to "move on"? You really want people to focus on your newer material? You really want to support your current bandmates and give them their own identity? Then ditch the GNR name.

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From a business perspective keeping the GNR name was the smart thing to do, without it he wouldn't be generating as much revenue.

However it's really quite odd for Axl to often emphasize his desire to "move on" and leave his pre-1994 days in the past, while simultaneously using the band name made famous by that same pre-1994 period, a band name that will always be identified by that time period and those bandmates, many of whom he no longer wishes to associate with or even acknowledge.

I mean seriously, you really want to "move on"? You really want people to focus on your newer material? You really want to support your current bandmates and give them their own identity? Then ditch the GNR name.

It's is quite possible to focus on newer material (which he does by playing 6-8 songs from CD every night), and to support your current bandmates (which he does by giving them ample opportunity to play solos and own material during shows, and by using their creations on the records), while still keeping the band name.

Axl has never expressed a desire to move on from his Guns N' Roses vision. Letting go of the name would be to abandon his plans and his vision.

Edited by SoulMonster

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I don't think he does. And I don't think he really cares about the lack of new material either or about his fanbase, but that's a different topic

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He wonders why people aggressively oppose it..that would tell me he should have laid off of the acid!

People have a good reason to not agree with the current band. IMO I'm fine with the current lineup

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Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

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If Axl was confident in his musical abilities he would have released a few albums since Slash and company left.

There are countless possible reasons for why Axl has only released one album since Slash left GNR. How could any of us know if "lack of confidence in his musical abilities" is the reason?!?

Does it ever occur to you that if you weren't so miserable that maybe you wouldn't always assume the worst about other people?

Axl shows symptoms of narcissism: large ego, small self-esteem.

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AXL ROSE - no wife,no kids,most of the fans dont care about CD

the GNR name is the only thing he has :violin:

so true :rofl-lol:

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