Axl's riddlespeak/what does this even mean?

[Vincent Vega]

Was reading old GN'R articles and I came across Axl's press release from 2002 and it never ceases to amaze me how one man can speak so incoherently/cryptically. I wonder if he does it on purpose, thinking that using big words will make people believe him, or if he really just speaks like this in real life.

Furthermore, I wonder what the hell this whole spiel means:

“Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There’d still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn’t out of opinion that Slash would go ‘hey it doesn’t work’, but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ‘Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can’t do that.’ People like to call me paranoid. It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we’d have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that. It’s not something Slash could live with. Slash chose not to be here over control issues. Now people can say ‘Well Axl, you’re after control of the band too.’ You’re damn skippy. That’s right. I am the one held responsible since day one. When it comes to Guns n’ Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B and knowing what the job is that we have to do. Within those parameters, I give everyone as much freedom to do what they want something Slash has verified in several interviews. Had Slash stepped up and written what we captured glimpses of, it would have created an environment that was beyond Slash’s ability to control. He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith’s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don’t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It’s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that’s the reason why that material got scrapped. If one were to say well then why not do it now there are several reasons.1) My band, too much time, too much effort and hardship. Confidence in our material. Excitement in watching this grow and being a part of the whole experience. 2) Money. You get what you play for and nothing’s free. Can you cover the cost of this venture and its financial potential that I am just supposed to walk away from and for what? To where? I do not believe in any true effort or potential regarding most of my past relationship from the other party or parties, creatively or emotionally. Without that the money from a reunion doesn't mean much and though I'm sure the alumni is up for it for me it would be as or more lacking than it was during our attempts to work together previously. As a friend and former friend of Slash said to me in regards to working with Slash, "you can only do so many pull ups." This is my shot and you can root for me to fail all you want, but there is simply way too much put into this to cater to someone else's selfish needs and destroy peoples dreams I truly care about including my own. Not too mention that though I've fought what feels like the heart of the nature of this entire industry, my own people would probably eat me alive if I opted for a lesser course. 3) Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does. Duff's support for the man though understandable in one sense in regard to his circumstances, is inexcusable, and furthers my distance from the two of them. For me Matt doesn't figure into the equation and for as much as I was a friend to him he was incapable of reciprocating and life is much better without such an obvious albatross. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums. I know how I was treated and more importantly I know how they treated others during both of these things, it's not a way anyone should be forced or even asked to work. And for the record I'm referring to Slash and Matt in regards to their actions and behavior, Duff played more of a supporting role (for reasons I've never understood). For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea.”

[Kill Devil Hill]

I don't usually get his riddlespeak, either, but I think that one's pretty straightforward?

They were gonna write a blues-rock record, the record Slash always wanted to make, but Slash was being difficult. Axl wishes they could've made the album, but he could only make so many compromises. He can't go back now because he and the new band had already worked so hard together. Slash and Matt treated people like shit while they were still in the band and Axl has no idea why. He thinks Duff supporting Slash after Slash was being such a dick is inexcusable. He also doesn't consider Duff an aggressor, though. He hates that fans want him to reunite with Slash and co because that would be a nightmare akin to prison.

Did I miss anything?

[Ali]

Yeah, I don't see what is so difficult to understand there. Is it verbose, excessively verbose even? Sure. But, I don't see what is incomprehensible there.

Ali

[Chewbacca]

It means that all your base are belong to him.

[dalsh327]

It still comes down to creative differences.

[Vincent Vega]

This part doesn't even make sense:

“Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There’d still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn’t out of opinion that Slash would go ‘hey it doesn’t work’, but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ‘Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can’t do that.

Why would Slash turn down material BECAUSE it would be successful?

and this:

It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we’d have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that.

Sounds VERY conspiracy minded, very "Black Helicopter" kind of thinking at work there. Like it was some sort of conspiracy between Slash, Renee, his security guard and some guy named Ronnie to bring Axl/GN'R down.

[MB.]

It is hard to even read though. Slash, bla bla bla, Matt bla bla bla, he lost me half way.

In our country we call that 'cruijffiaans', named after the famous soccer player. He is also well known for his speaches and long sentences, which only he understands,.

[Patience 4 Axl]

To sum it up:

"it's all Slash's fault."

[rabia]

This part doesn't even make sense:

“Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There’d still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn’t out of opinion that Slash would go ‘hey it doesn’t work’, but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ‘Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can’t do that.

Why would Slash turn down material BECAUSE it would be successful?

and this:

It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we’d have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that.

Sounds VERY conspiracy minded, very "Black Helicopter" kind of thinking at work there. Like it was some sort of conspiracy between Slash, Renee, his security guard and some guy named Ronnie to bring Axl/GN'R down.

It doesnt seem too complicated. In his understanding, Slash was being deliberately difficult.

He's referring to those feeling out sessions they were doing and his feeling is that whenever Slash would chance upon the kind of style/sound/ riffs/ whatever that Axl liked, he wouldn't develop it further and would veer away. Slash has said publicly and quite contemptuously that he would NOT do "Stephanie Seymour ballads" so its quite possible that Axl would gravitate towards some ballady stuff but Slash would refuse to explore that territory. And Axl was hoping for something he could truly connect to or as he says "sink his teeth in".

[The Black]

To sum it up:

"it's all Slash's fault."

Izzy, Slash and Duff all leave because they're fed up, Matt gets fired for sticking up for them. And one must conclude that Axl had no fault in anything whatsoever.

[Rustycage]

If I were to guess some middle ground here, I would guess that the clash between Slash and Paul Tobias felt forced on Slash. Axl brought Paul in with supposed little input from the others and just expected them to write. You have to have a chemistry to write and especially between lead and rhythm.

Personally, I think the whole thing could have been avoided if they worked toward cleaning up their act to get Izzy back. He tested the water but it was still a mess. You can't just "plug and play" everyone. There was no more chemistry.

Sounds like a complete lie to say he wanted to make another AFD. Why did he bring in the keyboard effects and completely shift if that was the case. "I want a rock record. Oh, Slash is gone. Well.....it's industrial time bitches!"

That is one transparent statement.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Rustycage

[Lumikki]

In general, I agree that Axl has a rather hard to follow, verbose and rambling writing style, and this piece isn't really an exception, but I could easily understand what he was talking about at least. Or maybe I'm just fluent in Axlese by now

Edited June 14, 2012 by Lumikki

[Vincent Vega]

If I were to guess some middle ground here, I would guess that the clash between Slash and Paul Tobias felt forced on Sash. Axl brought Paul in with supposed little input from the others and just expected them to write. You have to have a chemistry to write and especially between lead and rhythm.

Personally, I think the whole thing could have been avoided if they worked toward cleaning up their act to get Izzy back. He tested the water but it was still a mess. You can't just "plug and play" everyone. There was no more chemistry.

Sounds like a complete lie to say he wanted to make another AFD. Why did he bring in the keyboard effects and completely shift if that was the case. "I want a rock record. Oh, Slash is gone. Well.....it's industrial time bitches!"

That is one transparent statement.

Izzy was brought back in twice; Once in 1995 wherein he and Duff wrote a dozen songs in the space of a week; again in 1996, where he brought or contributed to around 60 songs, I believe Marc Canter said that somewhere. So Izzy was tried and he was willing to help out in the studio but even with his help, it couldn't be done.

The fight between Axl and Slash was about control, IMO. Axl and Slash both wanted control of the ship. Both wanted to be the leaders in GN'R. As such, Axl wanted Paul--his guy--in the there to balance off Slash's power, to offset Slash and also bring back the AFD dynamic; Slash wanted Gilby--his guy--in there to balance off Axl and form sort of a Slash/Gilby/Matt faction, to reassert creative control. Duff was in the middle trying to mediate but has said recently he didn't put as much effort in as he could've because he was busy with his own life, trying to put it back together, with his new wife and be sober and he was frankly tired of being between two fighting children, so he wasn't able to be as good a mediator as he could've been. The musical differences I think were just a small thing in a much larger war which was over control of Guns N' Roses. Sort of like a fighting couple; Any minor disagreement gets rolled into the larger conflict. It had little to do with musical differences and much more to do with childish desire for control.

And I think Axl did want to do an AFD style record to appease Slash, but his heart wasn't totally in it. He probably did want GN'R to evolve and go into industrial. Once Slash left, it made it much easier to go that route. But I do think that if doing a back to roots album could've kept Slash in GN'R, Axl would've done it. Both Axl and Slash have said that Axl did want to work on some of the Snakepit songs, and he brought in Zakk Wylde to play with Slash, which shows he wasn't resistant to straight Rock N' Roll.

Also, he didn't bring in the keyboard effects until '98 (when Chris joined) which was after Slash, Duff and Matt had gone.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Rustycage]

If I were to guess some middle ground here, I would guess that the clash between Slash and Paul Tobias felt forced on Sash. Axl brought Paul in with supposed little input from the others and just expected them to write. You have to have a chemistry to write and especially between lead and rhythm.

Personally, I think the whole thing could have been avoided if they worked toward cleaning up their act to get Izzy back. He tested the water but it was still a mess. You can't just "plug and play" everyone. There was no more chemistry.

Sounds like a complete lie to say he wanted to make another AFD. Why did he bring in the keyboard effects and completely shift if that was the case. "I want a rock record. Oh, Slash is gone. Well.....it's industrial time bitches!"

That is one transparent statement.

Izzy was brought back in twice; Once in 1995 wherein he and Duff wrote a dozen songs in the space of a week; again in 1996, where he brought or contributed to around 60 songs, I believe Marc Canter said that somewhere. So Izzy was tried and he was willing to help out in the studio but even with his help, it couldn't be done.

The fight between Axl and Slash was about control, IMO. Axl and Slash both wanted control of the ship. Both wanted to be the leaders in GN'R. As such, Axl wanted Paul--his guy--in the there to balance off Slash's power, to offset Slash and also bring back the AFD dynamic; Slash wanted Gilby--his guy--in there to balance off Axl and form sort of a Slash/Gilby/Matt faction, to reassert creative control. Duff was in the middle trying to mediate but has said recently he didn't put as much effort in as he could've because he was busy with his own life, trying to put it back together, with his new wife and be sober and he was frankly tired of being between two fighting children, so he wasn't able to be as good a mediator as he could've been. The musical differences I think were just a small thing in a much larger war which was over control of Guns N' Roses. Sort of like a fighting couple; Any minor disagreement gets rolled into the larger conflict. It had little to do with musical differences and much more to do with childish desire for control.

And I think Axl did want to do an AFD style record to appease Slash, but his heart wasn't totally in it. He probably did want GN'R to evolve and go into industrial. Once Slash left, it made it much easier to go that route. But I do think that if doing a back to roots album could've kept Slash in GN'R, Axl would've done it. Both Axl and Slash have said that Axl did want to work on some of the Snakepit songs, and he brought in Zakk Wylde to play with Slash, which shows he wasn't resistant to straight Rock N' Roll.

Also, he didn't bring in the keyboard effects until '98 (when Chris joined) which was after Slash, Duff and Matt had gone.

My point about Izzy is the way he would pop in and out, get a feel of the situation and go back home. According to both sides, he didn't like Axl's power grab and Slash, Duff and Matt's partying. That's what I mean when they probably could have cleaned it up a bit to make it more comfortable for Izzy. He was not a consistent factor in the studio. According to Slash, he couldn't make it work with Paul. It makes sense. You can't just plug and play people and expect it to work which Axl later discovered when piecing the band back together to resemble anything close to what it once was. Slash claims he didn't even like the guy at which point Axl says, "You don't have to like someone to make a record." It's nearly impossible for two guys, especially lead and rhythm, to just produce some artificial magic when they can't get a feel for each other.

And I agree that Slash tried to create a more group collaborating vibe because UYI became a crappy production once Dizzy and the symphony effects were shoved down their throats. According to them, Axl spent some of his vocal time adding keyboard shit. The creative control "shift" was already starting.

I disagree that it wasn't about musical differences. It doesn't make sense that Axl was phoning in criticism of solos and asking it to be re-recorded and over-dubbing Slash's parts with Paul. Axl already then was shifting from a typical band into the multi-layered guitar fills and solos that he has today. The musical style being played today is what was described then.

My World is another example of dictating control and a hint of what direction he wanted to go.

My point about Chris was how do you go from wanting to do another AFD to going semi industrial. Between My World and Chris joining is a rift of Axl wanting to be general rock to appease Slash? What is that based on? Doesn't make sense. When has he displayed that kind of compromise? He sure didn't display any of that during the UYI tour. He can sit there and call everyone liars but his claim just doesn't make sense.

According to Duff: "this band was becoming a dictatorship, everything had to get done in Axl's way or it wouldn't get done at all." That doesn't suggest that there was compromise on what kind of album was going to be made. Musical direction dictated, creative control being dictated, rhythm choice dictated, middle man orders to re-record guitar parts, sly over-dubbing and on't forget that drum samples were already starting to be injected into songs. That's not another AFD........ Who would stay in that situation? That's suffocating from start to finish.

All of their stories don't support Axl being the poor soul sacrificing his musical direction to satisfy anyone. He didn't do it with Dizzy before the tours, why would he do it after the tour once he became an even bigger star?

Just ask yourself, why would someone trying to appease Slash reject his music?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Rustycage

[saber_]

Is it too much to ask for a link?

[GnRDuff1]

Because possibly Slash wasn't bringing in what Axl AND DUFF thought of as "GnR worthy material". In Duff's book, he talks about how just like he stood with Slash on the anti-Paul side, he stood just as firmly with Axl on the "only 3 of your songs are good enough" side.

[Rustycage]

Because possibly Slash wasn't bringing in what Axl AND DUFF thought of as "GnR worthy material". In Duff's book, he talks about how just like he stood with Slash on the anti-Paul side, he stood just as firmly with Axl on the "only 3 of your songs are good enough" side.

Which all the more reason to assemble a better song writing team instead of saying, "can't write with him? Tough shit!" Right?

Still, if you are trying to appease someone, why reject his music and not appease his request for a change at rhythm guitar?

[maynard]

i love how axl blames everybody on his "letters". i was reading things he said about buckethead and his "erratic behavior". he used the same thing to describe two band members: "Bucket's Bucket" and "Robin's Robin".... lol.

i guess axl's axl and if one disagrees, you're out.

it's no coincidence robin, bucket and brain all left and frank, dj and bumble are in the band, they are fine with being hired hands.

[Vincent Vega]

Because possibly Slash wasn't bringing in what Axl AND DUFF thought of as "GnR worthy material". In Duff's book, he talks about how just like he stood with Slash on the anti-Paul side, he stood just as firmly with Axl on the "only 3 of your songs are good enough" side.

Which all the more reason to assemble a better song writing team instead of saying, "can't write with him? Tough shit!" Right?

Still, if you are trying to appease someone, why reject his music and not appease his request for a change at rhythm guitar?

According to Slash himself they did audition over a dozen or so guys and he (Slash) turned them all down. Axl claimed none of others ever once tossed a name in the air as a suggestion. And wouldn't you say bringing Zakk in, who was friends with Slash and a guy who liked Slash and vice versa, was an attempt to appease him, even if it wasn't well thought out?

And also, isn't saying you'll take three or four songs meeting him half way? Axl and Duff outvoted Slash with the majority of the Snakepit material, and then Axl thought on it and asked for three or four. Slash refused to give them to him. He could've easily done so. It wasn't like Snakepit was a hot in demand band, or that taking 3 songs off the album and bringing them back to Guns to work would've destroyed that album.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Flayer]

My World is another example of dictating control and a hint of what direction he wanted to go.

Axl: "Unfinished 1st run 1st dabbling/experimenting all in fun demo that became Duff’s favorite song at the time telling me how he loved to blast it at his house with Ice T and the Bodycount guys before Illusions came out and before it was decided to be on the record. I wanted to try and develop it and wanted guitars of some kind but Slash felt and his words at the Record Plant in all seriousness were “It’s perfect” and Slash and Duff were the deciding factor to have it on the album. [...] Personally I feel Duff legitimately liked it but I can’t say Slash did in the same way. In fact I feel he was keenly aware some would take issue with the track and against me so for him in that sense it was “perfect”. Imo Duff wasn’t aware or part of that and was “used” unwittingly for support in talking me out of developing it or not including it which at the time I had no real intention of using as is" [chinesedemocracy.com, December 14, 2008].

Edited June 15, 2012 by Flayer

[maynard]

and everything axl says is true... sure.

[Apollo]

To sum it up:

"it's all Slash's fault."

Izzy, Slash and Duff all leave because they're fed up, Matt gets fired for sticking up for them. And one must conclude that Axl had no fault in anything whatsoever.

Exactly.

My favorite rock singer of all time. But man, he (and the worshippers) has certainly made a career out of blaming everybody else for his problems. Band members quiting, firing producers, missing deadlines, not showing up for shows, riots happening, more band members leaving, lawsuits, getting into fist fights and yelling at people to f*ck off or get the f*ck away from him- at almost 50 years old, going on late.....the list goes on and on and on.

But according to Axl and his worshippers, nothing is ever his fault. Ever.

[dalsh327]

My World is another example of dictating control and a hint of what direction he wanted to go.

Axl: "Unfinished 1st run 1st dabbling/experimenting all in fun demo that became Duff’s favorite song at the time telling me how he loved to blast it at his house with Ice T and the Bodycount guys before Illusions came out and before it was decided to be on the record. I wanted to try and develop it and wanted guitars of some kind but Slash felt and his words at the Record Plant in all seriousness were “It’s perfect” and Slash and Duff were the deciding factor to have it on the album. [...] Personally I feel Duff legitimately liked it but I can’t say Slash did in the same way. In fact I feel he was keenly aware some would take issue with the track and against me so for him in that sense it was “perfect”. Imo Duff wasn’t aware or part of that and was “used” unwittingly for support in talking me out of developing it or not including it which at the time I had no real intention of using as is" [chinesedemocracy.com, December 14, 2008].

I think Slash just felt there was nothing for him to contribute to the song. It's an easy enough song for Chris and Bumblefoot to do live with Axl.

Of course Axl wanted to keep tinkering with it!! Wish Axl didn't have to mention that part about Duff being used - they had 4 albums' worth of music coming out, I just think Slash was annoyed with it being delayed as it was, and it had been mentioned they rushed to put some of the songs together. And I'm sure some of the "quick n' dirty" were part of TSI?

All I can say is, he needs to let the band decide when the song's finished the next time around, just so he doesn't second guess himself again, and just trust them. It's typical artist frustration to want to get it perfect, but you need that support group telling you that what you have is really good, and leave it at that.

[dalsh327]

To sum it up:

"it's all Slash's fault."

Izzy, Slash and Duff all leave because they're fed up, Matt gets fired for sticking up for them. And one must conclude that Axl had no fault in anything whatsoever.

Exactly.

My favorite rock singer of all time. But man, he (and the worshippers) has certainly made a career out of blaming everybody else for his problems. Band members quiting, firing producers, missing deadlines, not showing up for shows, riots happening, more band members leaving, lawsuits, getting into fist fights and yelling at people to f*ck off or get the f*ck away from him- at almost 50 years old, going on late.....the list goes on and on and on.

But according to Axl and his worshippers, nothing is ever his fault. Ever.

Slash made it sound like Axl was a walk in the park compared to Scott to work with. But I do think Axl got obsessed with the court system and it played a part in delaying Chinese Democracy. Should've just gone to Pepperdine, got his degree, then went to law school in that time.

[The Glow Inc.]

When it comes to Guns n’ Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B and knowing what the job is that we have to do. - Axl Rose

O'rly ?