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Why did Duff turn down Snakepit?


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#46
jmapelian

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Even if Axl wanted to work on the material I don't think Slash would have let him do what he wanted. Slash was not happy with Axl's overdubs on the UYI material and, to this day, feels that the demos were better then the finished product.....And while Axl might be exaggerating when he said Slash told him to "shut up and sing" I could see them battling over changes to the Snakepit material.....Even Marc made a cryptic comment in a post that he felt Slash should have allowed Axl to work on the Snakepit material.........


From what I've read, it appears to me there was a lot of animosity back then. Axl was taking too long with new material. Slash worked on his own with band members, brought it to Axl, and it was rejected. That had to piss him off. There seems to have been a power struggle. So I agree with what you're saying, based on accounts I've read. Slash wanted it THIS way, Axl wanted it THAT way. Duff was kinda caught in the middle.

I can see why Duff would have rejected it though. What made Gn'R brilliant is the blending of the styles.


the problem with axl rejecting it out of hand and what we don't know is - what did axl have at the time that was better? all's we know is what became snakepit was rejected but did axl have anything better to counter with or was it just an idea in his head.............axl's never answered that


Well, in all fairness, when has GN'R ever been about settling on mediocre? Maybe there was nothing else but mediocre material, and Axl wanted to wait until they'd found the perfect direction to go in, y'know? And waiting and trying and getting rejected and waiting some more wore on Slash.


I always thought if the 1st snakepit album got the full GnR treatment, meaning axl and duff also working the songs out, that album would have been killer, as it was, it's a good rock album.

But between Axl and Duff and anyone else in the band, you never hear about the material they brought to the table, only the music that became the snakepit album......I just finished Duff's book and I read the band was paying for a rehearsal space from 94-97 that went unused for 3 years, so it doesn't really sound like anyone else had anything going on at the time

As for "This I Love" coming from that period, I don't really think that topped anything off the 1st Snakepit album, and if it took nearly 20 years to finish, it couldn't have been that great to begin with

#47
moreblack

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As for "This I Love" coming from that period, I don't really think that topped anything off the 1st Snakepit album, and if it took nearly 20 years to finish, it couldn't have been that great to begin with

It still isn't. It's like some cheesy Disney musical, or Meatloaf ballad ripoff. I couldn't see the proper GNR working on something like that with a straight face...

“To the ones who are negative and want to see either myself or the new band fall on their faces, personally I can’t pass up an opportunity to upset so many of them in one quick swoop. I get misty-eyed just thinking about it."


#48
dario27

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Even if Axl wanted to work on the material I don't think Slash would have let him do what he wanted. Slash was not happy with Axl's overdubs on the UYI material and, to this day, feels that the demos were better then the finished product.....And while Axl might be exaggerating when he said Slash told him to "shut up and sing" I could see them battling over changes to the Snakepit material.....Even Marc made a cryptic comment in a post that he felt Slash should have allowed Axl to work on the Snakepit material.........


From what I've read, it appears to me there was a lot of animosity back then. Axl was taking too long with new material. Slash worked on his own with band members, brought it to Axl, and it was rejected. That had to piss him off. There seems to have been a power struggle. So I agree with what you're saying, based on accounts I've read. Slash wanted it THIS way, Axl wanted it THAT way. Duff was kinda caught in the middle.

I can see why Duff would have rejected it though. What made Gn'R brilliant is the blending of the styles.


i agree on a few points.

a lot of question would've been answered if Duff would've written something about it on the book, however i do believe he "rejected" the material, because he was just trying to stick to GUNS and keep the band going.
he probably tought by choosing Slash's side Axl would've been mad and kept his hybernation mode for a few more years (we now know he did regardless of what was going on at the time) but Duff was probably attempting to get the thing going, get Axl's attention and coninue the creative effort of the band.
a wasted effort. and it's pretty clear Duff supported the material, he worked with Slash on it and recorded it.



Fair points mate but did Duff really work with Slash on the material? I don't remember reading he was involved as I thought it was Slash, Gilby and Matt?


yup, there's writing credits on Beggars & Hangers

the fact that Slash helped him on his Beleive In Me Album without hesitation, tells me the reasons Duff didn't want to get involved in IFOCS are probably related to "staying loyal" to Axl to try and convince him to get the GNR engine going.

#49
Kill Devil Hill

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Good for him. :)


He even posted is diploma. He was like an excited kid.

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In regards to Slash, I read a desperate fan's message about, what if one of us were to die and looking back I had the possibility of a reunion now, blah blah blah. And my thoughts are, "Yeah, and while you're at the show your baby accidentally kicks a candle and burns your house down, killing himself and the rest of your family."


#50
GnR Chris

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Good for him. :)


He even posted is diploma. He was like an excited kid.

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Did he legally change his name to Duff? Weird his diploma wouldn't say Michael Andrew McKagan.

#51
shotgunblues1978

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As for "This I Love" coming from that period, I don't really think that topped anything off the 1st Snakepit album, and if it took nearly 20 years to finish, it couldn't have been that great to begin with

It still isn't. It's like some cheesy Disney musical, or Meatloaf ballad ripoff. I couldn't see the proper GNR working on something like that with a straight face...


Yes, none of the others would agree to work on something cheesy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY3sxKjveU4

#52
jmapelian

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As for "This I Love" coming from that period, I don't really think that topped anything off the 1st Snakepit album, and if it took nearly 20 years to finish, it couldn't have been that great to begin with

It still isn't. It's like some cheesy Disney musical, or Meatloaf ballad ripoff. I couldn't see the proper GNR working on something like that with a straight face...


Yes, none of the others would agree to work on something cheesy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY3sxKjveU4


Shotgun, this song didn't even appear on the main album and it sure as hell didn't take 20 yrs to complete; and BTW, not everyone thought it was cheesy, just look thru the youtube comments, quite a few people liked it

#53
Nosaj Thing

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As for "This I Love" coming from that period, I don't really think that topped anything off the 1st Snakepit album, and if it took nearly 20 years to finish, it couldn't have been that great to begin with

It still isn't. It's like some cheesy Disney musical, or Meatloaf ballad ripoff. I couldn't see the proper GNR working on something like that with a straight face...


Yes, none of the others would agree to work on something cheesy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY3sxKjveU4

Very retarded on your part. :thumbsup:

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Goddamn it! Fuckin' Game of Thrones, man.


#54
shotgunblues1978

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As for "This I Love" coming from that period, I don't really think that topped anything off the 1st Snakepit album, and if it took nearly 20 years to finish, it couldn't have been that great to begin with

It still isn't. It's like some cheesy Disney musical, or Meatloaf ballad ripoff. I couldn't see the proper GNR working on something like that with a straight face...


Yes, none of the others would agree to work on something cheesy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY3sxKjveU4


Shotgun, this song didn't even appear on the main album and it sure as hell didn't take 20 yrs to complete; and BTW, not everyone thought it was cheesy, just look thru the youtube comments, quite a few people liked it


Plenty of people liked TIL too; look at the Youtube comments on an of its videos

Whether or not it took 20 years to make or appeared on the "main album" isn't particularly relevant. The premise of the comment I responded to was that the original Guns wouldn't have worked on a song as "cheesy" as TIL with a straight face, yet there are plenty of examples of the members of the old GnR (particularly Slash) working on cheesy songs outside of GnR (like the one I posted, songs with Insane Clown Posse, Rihanna, Blackstreet, etc).

#55
moreblack

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working on cheesy songs outside of GnR


“To the ones who are negative and want to see either myself or the new band fall on their faces, personally I can’t pass up an opportunity to upset so many of them in one quick swoop. I get misty-eyed just thinking about it."


#56
Vincent Vega

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As for "This I Love" coming from that period, I don't really think that topped anything off the 1st Snakepit album, and if it took nearly 20 years to finish, it couldn't have been that great to begin with

It still isn't. It's like some cheesy Disney musical, or Meatloaf ballad ripoff. I couldn't see the proper GNR working on something like that with a straight face...


Never saw what's cheesy about TIL...If "the proper GN'R" could work on Estranged or NR I don't see why it wouldn't have worked out with TIL.

Also, NR took about a decade to finish and I think most are agreed that it's a classic song
-Member formerly known as Mr. Miser/Honky Chateau/Memnoch the Devil/Indigo Child/Clark Gable/Virgil Caine-
GUNS N' ROSES = AXL, SLASH, IZZY, DUFF, STEVEN

#57
dario27

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As for "This I Love" coming from that period, I don't really think that topped anything off the 1st Snakepit album, and if it took nearly 20 years to finish, it couldn't have been that great to begin with

It still isn't. It's like some cheesy Disney musical, or Meatloaf ballad ripoff. I couldn't see the proper GNR working on something like that with a straight face...


Never saw what's cheesy about TIL...If "the proper GN'R" could work on Estranged or NR I don't see why it wouldn't have worked out with TIL.

Also, NR took about a decade to finish and I think most are agreed that it's a classic song


there is a very thin margin for a ballad to go from a good one to cheesy.

before Patience was released people were a bit sceptical about the song, it could've been a huge failure, the whole whistle part was gamble, but Axl nailed it and people loved it, GNR won, just like NR and Estranged, they nailed the whole arrangement, lyrics and all with TIL, i'm sure some like the song but it's far from a great one, it's just cheesy

#58
damagedgoods

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Axl probably felt that though he dismissed the material at the time, it still should have been kept as demos for GUNS N' ROSES. If I'm not mistaken, Snakepit was the first solo venture for anyone still in the actual band at the time, right?


I think duff's solo album came out before snakepit.
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