Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, PappyTron said: I am 100% certain that there is no evidence to support the notion that a God, Gods or the supernatural exist and am therefore 100% certain that Gods do not exist. However, I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong in my 100% certainty, because I am open to the possibility that because I am fallible, that I may be wrong about anything, no matter how certain I am of it. If I were an agnostic I would simply state "I do not know whether God, Gods or the supernatural exist". Not complicated to understand the difference. If you would like to present some Biblical evidence to support your belief that God not only exists but is the Christian God, then feel free to present it. If you accept that you may not be following God's word correctly then how can you, in good faith, state that you are a Catholic? You must accept that the Catholic church may be a tool of the Devil and that the last 2000 years has been a trick by Old Nick; after all, you say yourself that you could be doing religion wrong. If you are open to being wrong about your 100% certainty, then you are not 100% certain. Your understanding of the Catholic religion differs from mine. Catholicism = Universal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: If you are open to being wrong about your 100% certainty, then you are not 100% certain. Your understanding of the Catholic religion differs from mine. Catholicism = Universal. No, I am still 100% certain; just understanding that I am fallible. My fallibility does not, in and of itself, alter my certainty. Look up Albert Ellis and probabilistic atheism. My understanding of the Catholic church? I'm simply pointing out that as you are not perfect you cannot know anything with certainty; therefore you must accept the possibility that the Catholic church is a lie. As I said, if you have ANY evidence that the Catholic God exists please feel free to share it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Moon Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 i believe in the universe. Making definitive statements is grasping at straws we cannot possibly reach. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, PappyTron said: No, I am still 100% certain; just understanding that I am fallible. My fallibility does not, in and of itself, alter my certainty. Look up Albert Ellis and probabilistic atheism. My understanding of the Catholic church? I'm simply pointing out that as you are not perfect you cannot know anything with certainty; therefore you must accept the possibility that the Catholic church is a lie. As I said, if you have ANY evidence that the Catholic God exists please feel free to share it. One God. Not a Catholic God...not a Jewish God....not a Muslim God....one God. Evidence is everywhere for a person of faith, yet does not exist for a person without faith. Edited February 4, 2016 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: One God. Not a Catholic God...not a Jewish God....not a Muslim God....one God. Evidence is everywhere for a person of faith, yet does not exist for a person without faith. The Muslim God is not the same as the Catholic God; two completely different belief systems. If their God is correct then your God is false and vice versa. You cannot mash them all together; either your religion is right or it is wrong, just like Islam and Judaism are either right or wrong with no middle ground. If evidence is all around then it will be easy to point me in the general direction; you must have some general evidence to support your belief in a God; you surely haven't arrived at that conclusion with nothing but faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, PappyTron said: The Muslim God is not the same as the Catholic God; two completely different belief systems. If their God is correct then your God is false and vice versa. You cannot mash them all together; either your religion is right or it is wrong, just like Islam and Judaism are either right or wrong with no middle ground. If evidence is all around then it will be easy to point me in the general direction; you must have some general evidence to support your belief in a God; you surely haven't arrived at that conclusion with nothing but faith. What? Enlighten me as to your version of what God is to Muslims vs what God is to Catholics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, Kasanova King said: What? Enlighten me as to your version of what God is to Muslims vs what God is to Catholics. Muslims don't believe in the Holy Trinity; Jesus is revered as a Prophet but not the son of a God. So in that sense the God of Islam is more similar to that of Unitarian Christians than Catholic Christians. I just had to Google if there's a Holy Spirit in Islam (shows how much attention I paid in Islamic Studies classes...), turns out it's the Angel Gabriel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Moon Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) What a sad, hopeless thread this is. We [humanity in general] are all going to die, and this thread is at least 1% responsible. Edited February 4, 2016 by Jackie Moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Amir said: Muslims don't believe in the Holy Trinity; Jesus is revered as a Prophet but not the son of a God. So in that sense the God of Islam is more similar to that of Unitarian Christians than Catholic Christians. I just had to Google if there's a Holy Spirit in Islam (shows how much attention I paid in Islamic Studies classes...), turns out it's the Angel Gabriel. So Jesus is a prophet of God. So Muslims believe in God, as Christians do. Edited February 4, 2016 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 9 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: What? Enlighten me as to your version of what God is to Muslims vs what God is to Catholics. Not my version; just fact. All of the details of the Koran and the Bible are at direct loggerheads with each other; they cannot both be true and therefore cannot be the same God. I think there may have been a war or something about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Moon Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Kasanova King said: 1 minute ago, Kasanova King said: So Jesus is a prophet of God. So Muslims believe in God, as Christians do. So Jesus is a prophet of God. So Muslims believe in the same God as Christians. i am in no position to declare myself correct in this argument. but i am 1000% correct in declaring you blatantly incorrect. and that mathematically impossible! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: So Jesus is a prophet of God. So Muslims believe in the same God as Christians. The God of the Muslims prescribed different teachings through Muhammad than the God of the Christians did through Jesus. The teachings of the God of the Old Testament sometimes contradict those of Jesus in the New Testament. There may be similar teachings but in the end their differences mean they are not the same God. It's like how The Amazing Spider-Man is different from Ultimate Spider-Man; in some basic way they are the same person, but different writers means they have different qualities ascribed to them, so they become different people. Edited February 4, 2016 by Amir 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PappyTron said: Not my version; just fact. All of the details of the Koran and the Bible are at direct loggerheads with each other; they cannot both be true and therefore cannot be the same God. I think there may have been a war or something about it... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions One God, different interpretations. Edited February 4, 2016 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Amir said: It's like how The Amazing Spider-Man is different from Ultimate Spider-Man; in some basic way they are the same person, but different writers means they have different qualities ascribed to them, so they become different people. Wonderful! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 It took me years to make the connection between canon in the religious sense and canon in the geeky sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Kasanova King said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions One God, different interpretations. That they can all trace their lineage back to the line of Abraham does not mean that they all worship the same God. For example, and Amir or Lenny can correct me if I am wrong, but Muslims do not subscribe to the belief that there can be direct fellowship with Allah due to his transcendency, whereas a personal relationship with Jesus is a fundamental cornerstone of Christianity. Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet and no more; Christians believe that Jesus is God. Given that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God how can you say that Muslims and Christians worship the same God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 12 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: So Jesus is a prophet of God. So Muslims believe in God, as Christians do. Just to point out that Jesus is not believed to be a prophet OF God, Jesus IS God. I'm staggered that a Catholic doesn't even understand what is literally the cornerstone of his religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: That they can all trace their lineage back to the line of Abraham does not mean that they all worship the same God. For example, and Amir or Lenny can correct me if I am wrong, but Muslims do not subscribe to the belief that there can be direct fellowship with Allah due to his transcendency, whereas a personal relationship with Jesus is a fundamental cornerstone of Christianity. Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet and no more; Christians believe that Jesus is God. Given that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God how can you say that Muslims and Christians worship the same God? God is God. The true in Spirit have no doubt of their brethren in God. The Muslim that does not accept the Christian and the Christian that does not accept the Muslim is no different than whites that do not accept blacks or vice-versa. Same evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, PappyTron said: That they can all trace their lineage back to the line of Abraham does not mean that they all worship the same God. For example, and Amir or Lenny can correct me if I am wrong, but Muslims do not subscribe to the belief that there can be direct fellowship with Allah due to his transcendency, whereas a personal relationship with Jesus is a fundamental cornerstone of Christianity. Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet and no more; Christians believe that Jesus is God. Given that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God how can you say that Muslims and Christians worship the same God? Same God bro. One God. Always has been one God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: God is God. The true in Spirit have no doubt of their brethren in God. The Muslim that does not accept the Christian and the Christian that does not accept the Muslim is no different than whites that do not accept blacks or vice-versa. Same evil. Now you are descending into crackpottery. Go and ask a Muslim of strong faith whether they would rather die or accept Jesus as their Lord, and then ask a Christian of equal faith whether they accept Allah as their Lord and see what they say. Both of them would rather die, and that is because they know that the two faiths are completely incompatible. 3 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: Same God bro. One God. Always has been one God. Not the same go, bro. Also, not one God, but no God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, PappyTron said: Now you are descending into crackpottery. Go and ask a Muslim of strong faith whether they would rather die or accept Jesus as their Lord, and then ask a Christian of equal faith whether they accept Allah as their Lord and see what they say. Both of them would rather die, and that is because they know that the two faiths are completely incompatible. Not the same go, bro. Also, not one God, but no God. Your ignorance of faith clearly surpasses your intelligence of such issues. One God. The Christian Lord is Jesus...which is God in the flesh for Christians. To Muslims, Jesus is a prophet of God, which is OK. To each, their own. God is the greatest scientist of them all....the Universe (universes) ...they are all a creation of science.....God is science....the first scientist......yet they defy His existence.... amazing...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Jesus is begotten of god. He isn't god. He is the son of god. Consubstantial, i.e. of god's being but in a trinitarian sense separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: Your ignorance of faith clearly surpasses your intelligence of such issues. One God. The Christian Lord is Jesus...which is God in the flesh for Christians. To Muslims, Jesus is a prophet of God, which is OK. To each, their own. God is the greatest scientist of them all....the Universe (universes) ...they are all a creation of science.....God is science....the first scientist......yet they defy His existence.... amazing...... You been drinking the communion wine, Kasanova? You start off by failing to understand what the difference between atheism and agnosticism is, try and tell me what I ascribe to and then wend your way to the conclusion that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, despite no Muslim or Christian theologian agreeing with you. You then go and say "The Christian Lord is Jesus...which is God in the flesh for Christians. To Muslims, Jesus is a prophet of God, which is OK. To each, their own" which is a pretty darned big diversion from them believing in the same God. They can't even agree on the core tenet of who Jesus was; Muslims flat out reject him as being a God or anything but a man of 100% earthly flesh, yet you think that they believe in the same God with just subtle differences. "God is science" - you've moved from the communion wine and onto something a little stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Jesus is begotten of god. He isn't god. He is the son of god. Consubstantial, i.e. of god's being but in a trinitarian sense separate. John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” Jesus and God are the same, through hypostatic union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, PappyTron said: You been drinking the communion wine, Kasanova? You start off by failing to understand what the difference between atheism and agnosticism is, try and tell me what I ascribe to and then wend your way to the conclusion that Christians and Muslims worship the same God, despite no Muslim or Christian theologian agreeing with you. You then go and say "The Christian Lord is Jesus...which is God in the flesh for Christians. To Muslims, Jesus is a prophet of God, which is OK. To each, their own" which is a pretty darned big diversion from them believing in the same God. They can't even agree on the core tenet of who Jesus was; Muslims flat out reject him as being a God or anything but a man of 100% earthly flesh, yet you think that they believe in the same God with just subtle differences. "God is science" - you've moved from the communion wine and onto something a little stronger. If God exists, what would God be to you, Pappy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.