Shark Island's influence on Axl

[Freddie Mercury's Ghost]

Marc,

I read this interview with Richard Black (lead singer of The Sharks/Shark Island) from 2006 where he claims Axl stole his stage moves/vocal mannerisms:

http://www.melodicrock.com/interviews/sharkisland-richardblack.html

I'm not sure if you want to comment on this - but I hope you do - but it is well known that several other artists mirrored their look and their stage antics on yours. I already mentioned what a huge reputation the band had as a live act, but the big draw card was your charismatic performance as frontman.

It seems to be a well known fact among followers of the scene at the time that Guns N Roses frontman Axl Rose would come and see you guys perform every week and 'borrowed' a lot of your moves - from your moves to even your stage rap and song delivery.

There are other examples, but Axl seems to be the best known.

Is this correct and what impact did it have upon you to see other bands getting famous off something which you more or less perfected?

You know I have always tried to avoid this topic because I never wanted to sound like a sniveling bitter victim, and I largely kept my mouth shut. But every so often however, the topic continues to rear its ugly head. But then again avoiding the subject never did any good.

Let me tell you a story; in the early days I was influenced by the pioneers of this music, but I was getting it together. I soon learned if I continued to copy them, people wouldn't take me seriously. I evolved and became my unique self. I have never systematically copied a single artist except jokingly or on Halloween.

What happened in my instance however, was quite a different story.

I was being copied all right…sometimes by down right impersonators, it was creepy.

I could see their point, they figured it was working for us, so why not them.

Regardless of how you felt about the band it was hard to ignore us. I suppose wearing nothing but an American flag or a paper jumpsuit with duct tape hasn't caught on yet, but was pretty original…a little too ahead of its time I guess.

I would wear pajamas on stage just for fun…soon there after I'd see some our friends and followers wearing pajamas.

I use to have these bike shorts that I decided to wear onstage, then it seemed bike shorts were the rage in L.A. I don't think it was a coincidence.

What I'm talking about is copying someone' essence. When art is involved, that is not cool; it's a form of plagiarism.

And I give a horse' ass about 'imitation is the best form of flattery'. I don't need to be flattered.

Many Popular bands and personalities came to see Shark Island, that's a fact, and many took elements home with them for their stage show or album covers, or wardrobe…oh well, I'm flattered…nothing that could have altered the path of my career.

But that good-for-nothing Axl Rose, he' really a piece of work for the dregs.

As far as I'm concerned he's never done anything original in his life. Him and his cronies would come every week and watch the show.

One day before GnR's debut, I went to his place…as I walked in I saw a video of me playing on his TV and on top was a stack of VHS tapes all labeled Shark Island with dates and times. I remember being mortified, it was obvious he was studying my shtick, and I knew there was nothing I could do, being their album was about to be released, and he'd cap on the press get the credit.

My many years of developing, and refining my craft and years of modern dance were up for grabs by this fool and a video camcorder.

I remember some people telling me about him acting like me, but I never worried much on a count that we were all in the same boat.

Then came Welcome To The Jungle, I though I was looking in the mirror, or the videos on Axl's TV.

You said 'borrowed' earlier well that implies a payback. What burns me up even more is in his heyday he never so much as mentioned Shark Island or Richard Black in all his press.

Which, by the way, could have helped us at no cost to him; he never even threw us a bone.

Now, truth be told, I couldn't possibly care less. That's all old crap and it does me no good now, besides, I am nothing like I was back then, and I'd look like a fool to try.

Any truth to this?

Do you agree Axl should have helped Shark Island out by crediting them as an influence over the years?

Edited July 22, 2012 by Freddie Mercury's Ghost

[classicrawker]

Vicky Hamilton claimed the same thing and it was quoted in Steven Davis's book on GnR but how do you prove it? All musicians are influenced by their peers. Mick Jagger used to study James Brown's stage moves...I doubt Axl intentionally stole Richard Black's stage show but would not be surprised if he was influenced by it........

[Freddie Mercury's Ghost]

Vicky Hamilton claimed the same thing and it was quoted in Steven Davis's book on GnR but how do you prove it? All musicians are influenced by their peers. Mick Jagger used to study James Brown's stage moves...I doubt Axl intentionally stole Richard Black's stage show but would not be surprised if he was influenced by it........

A track from The Sharks' 1982 album Altar Ego:

His voice does sound like Axl's. The earliest Axl audio recordings we have are from 1983. The Hollywood Rose videos of Axl from 1983 showed that he had *no* stage moves at that point:

We need to find old video of Richard Black performing.

[Freddie Mercury's Ghost]

Ok - dug something up.

Guns N' Roses had their first gig on March 26, 1985.

Here's Axl and Tracii guesting with Shark Island a few weeks before on March 6, 1985 (skip to 2:37 to see a closeup with both Richard and Axl dancing):

Now let's look at Richard's quote again:

As far as I'm concerned he's never done anything original in his life. Him and his cronies would come every week and watch the show.

One day before GnR's debut, I went to his place…as I walked in I saw a video of me playing on his TV and on top was a stack of VHS tapes all labeled Shark Island with dates and times. I remember being mortified, it was obvious he was studying my shtick, and I knew there was nothing I could do, being their album was about to be released, and he'd cap on the press get the credit.

Someone on Youtube posted this:

I used to see Sharks when they were the house band at Gazzarri's back in '85 - '86. During that time they had to change their name to Shark Island because another band by the name of Sharks won a record deal on Ed McMahon's Star Search. These guys didn't get the credit they deserved and wish they were still around.

So Axl would have his crew film the shows at Gazzarri's every week - I'm guessing that's where the "Rock and Roll" performance from above originated from.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Freddie Mercury's Ghost

[Estranged Reality]

i've always thought the similarities to axl were exaggerated. his 'snake dance' really isn't the same.

IF axl 'stole' from him, i'd say it was more that hanging around the clubs he naturally gleaned certain styles. i can see axl doing that - making mental notes of things that work and don't work and trying to incorporate that into his act. but axl's mannerisms always seemed very natural, and i think there are other singers who he owes more to in terms of stage presence. he learned from the greats.

[dalsh327]

There's very few people who you could classify as "true originals", but when you throw it in the mix of a really good band, the combination trumps any one or two ideas taken from someone else.

Take a look at those names in the club ads through Marc's book, how many of them made it big, and how many people in those bands went on to bigger things later?

Axl had a video crew in 1985?

[recklessroad]

First off that Video with Axl and Tracii was from April 26th 1986 and I shot it. The reason I was there is because I knew Axl was going to be going up on stage with them and I was filming everything Axl did because I knew it was important to have it. Since I was there I shot the whole show. I gave Axl a copy of it and thats why it ended up in Axl's apartment. Axl had plenty of moves before he had even heard of Shark Island. Axl liked Richard and thought the band was very professional because they used to play 200 gigs a year. The Snake move was something that Richard did do and Axl must have been a bit influenced by it and picked up on it and at some point worked it in with all his other moves. It doesn't mean that Axl ripped him off. Lots of Rock Stars get influenced by something they see and use it somehow. Mick Jagger got a lot of them from Tina Turner. Axl is ver natural and is mostly one of a kind in everything he does but I'm sure some of what he does came from something he saw somewhere and just starting doing something like it because it felt right. Joe Perry took a lot from Jeff Beck, Slash took a lot from Joe Perry that's Rock N' Roll and there are kids out there that took something from Slash. No big deal.

[GNRfan2008]

A track from The Sharks' 1982 album Altar Ego:

His voice does sound like Axl's.

It sounds more like all the other glam rock vocalists in L.A. at the time. Axl's voice is unique as hell compared to any of them, including Mr. Black's voice.

[GivenToFly]

First off that Video with Axl and Tracii was from April 26th 1986 and I shot it. The reason I was there is because I knew Axl was going to be going up on stage with them and I was filming everything Axl did because I knew it was important to have it. Since I was there I shot the whole show. I gave Axl a copy of it and thats why it ended up in Axl's apartment. Axl had plenty of moves before he had even heard of Shark Island. Axl liked Richard and thought the band was very professional because they used to play 200 gigs a year. The Snake move was something that Richard did do and Axl must have been a bit influenced by it and picked up on it and at some point worked it in with all his other moves. It doesn't mean that Axl ripped him off. Lots of Rock Stars get influenced by something they see and use it somehow. Mick Jagger got a lot of them from Tina Turner. Axl is ver natural and is mostly one of a kind in everything he does but I'm sure some of what he does came from something he saw somewhere and just starting doing something like it because it felt right. Joe Perry took a lot from Jeff Beck, Slash took a lot from Joe Perry that's Rock N' Roll and there are kids out there that took something from Slash. No big deal.

Do you remember where the show was? The venue, I mean.

[recklessroad]

Gazzarri's

[Padme]

Gazzarri's

Hi Marc, since we are at it. I heard that in that show and that day was the first time Axl and Erin met. Is that true?

[recklessroad]

Gazzarri's

Hi Marc, since we are at it. I heard that in that show and that day was the first time Axl and Erin met. Is that true?

That I don't know but it might be true. Thats about the time they started hanging out together.