James Bond Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 21. Octopussy 1983 Roger Moore $426,244,35222. The Living Daylights 1987 Timothy Dalton $381,088,86623. A View to a Kill 1985 Roger Moore $321,172,63324. Licence to Kill 1989 Timothy Dalton $285,157,191Aka why Goldeneye was perhaps the most important movie of the entire series. Well the hiatus must have helped. After Spy they kept getting a film every two years. People got sick of them and they weren't warming up to Dalton. Brosnan was always the favorite since Steele.I think it's a mixture of all of those. American audiences in particular had not warmed to Dalton but all the same the Bond market was oversaturated by the end of the eighties. The formula had grown stale. I think audiences were tired of Roger too by the point Dalton came along. The hiatus mixed with Brosnan, always a fan favourite for the role, certainly helped re-energize the franchise. I always felt like the Brosnan films were studio influenced "play it safe to make money" films while EON has assumed full control of the Craig era. Case in point: The World Is Not Enough. EON hires Michael Apted with the idea of giving Brosnan his much requested "OHMSS style" story, but a bunch of senseless action scenes get shoehorned in and the plot gets muddy as a result.A very fine argument indeed. I'm still not sure how I will truly rank the Craig films aside from knowing that QOS is my least favourite. It still amazes me that Quantum isn't more of a mess considering the troubled production due to the writer's strike. If I ranked all 24 films it'd probably fall somewhere in the middle - not a bad accomplishment for a film that barely had a functional script before Forster and Craig knocked it into shape.I remember asking a few months or so before the movie came out whether or not it would match Skyfall at $1 billion. Everyone seemed so sure it would beat Skyfall at the box office. Whoops With that being said there's nothing wrong with the numbers it's doing. I wonder when we'll hit "peak" box office numbers - i.e. both the number of movie goers and the gross both start doing down?Boy were we wrong. Here we were ready to camp outside to make sure we get a seat and the film sneaks right by. It's hard to say. Until Star Wars comes out there really isn't a whole lot more direct competition it will face so the casual grosses should still hold up over the next couple of weeks despite the drop this past week. The fact that it still held number two with such minimal grosses shows that it was a slow week for movies in general. I can't remember offhand how many weeks Skyfall played and where it truly dipped (it probably shows on BOM) but we should expect something similar, just with smaller numbers.I'd probably rank Quantum just outside of my top 10 still. It's the weakest Craig film, but I'll still take it before all but the absolute best entry from most of the other Bonds.I've been of the opinion for the last two years or so that, on my ranking, Casino Royale and Skyfall are so close that I really couldn't pick one over the other. SPECTRE is currently my favorite, but I think after more time/viewings it'll soften to the same tie on my ranking with those 2.Right after Skyfall I was so caught up in the hype that I was saying it was easily my favorite. Once a bit of time had passed I had almost forgotten how amazing Casino Royale is, so it's incredibly difficult to say which one is truly better. SPECTRE is different than both of them, and yet still just as good for different reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyman Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 21. Octopussy 1983 Roger Moore $426,244,35222. The Living Daylights 1987 Timothy Dalton $381,088,86623. A View to a Kill 1985 Roger Moore $321,172,63324. Licence to Kill 1989 Timothy Dalton $285,157,191Aka why Goldeneye was perhaps the most important movie of the entire series. Well the hiatus must have helped. After Spy they kept getting a film every two years. People got sick of them and they weren't warming up to Dalton. Brosnan was always the favorite since Steele.I think it's a mixture of all of those. American audiences in particular had not warmed to Dalton but all the same the Bond market was oversaturated by the end of the eighties. The formula had grown stale. I think audiences were tired of Roger too by the point Dalton came along. The hiatus mixed with Brosnan, always a fan favourite for the role, certainly helped re-energize the franchise. I always felt like the Brosnan films were studio influenced "play it safe to make money" films while EON has assumed full control of the Craig era. Case in point: The World Is Not Enough. EON hires Michael Apted with the idea of giving Brosnan his much requested "OHMSS style" story, but a bunch of senseless action scenes get shoehorned in and the plot gets muddy as a result.I agree with this and think most of the Brosnan movies actually had pretty good potential, but got screwed up due to terrible casting and an overabundance on action. I've always liked TWINE more than most people on here because I can see the potential is there for a truly great Bond movie, but they "screwed the pooch" after writing the initial script. Then they really, really fucked up with casting Denise Richards.Also Peter Jackson was a candidate for directing that movie. Considering the final product I would've rather watched that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'll always have a soft spot for TWINE since it was the first Bond I saw on the big screen. Unfortunately, like all the Brosnan films, it suffers from not living up to its potential. The biggest offender (outside of Denise Richards) is the abundance of action scenes that have no purpose in the story. You could literally cut out both the ski chase and the caviar factory attack without losing any of the plot. That said, I do like the latter scene by itself (and Valentin's insurance company quip is one of the better quips on the film). Keep the boat chase because it's cool as shit and the nuclear test site stuff, but most of the action has the opposite intended effect - the movie slows down each time because afterwards the dialogue continues as if the action didn't even happen. "Okay Valentin, your caviar factory just got blown to pieces. Now, where were we? Oh yeah, you're selling shit to The Full Monty and Elektra has M."A Peter Jackson Bond would be interesting but we'd probably get a three-part story arc with unnecessary subplots and side characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyman Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 A Peter Jackson Bond would be interesting but we'd probably get a three-part story arc with unnecessary subplots and side characters.I mean we did get a two-part one where the second part was unnecessary...Although the timeline doesn't work out, they required the rights to CR in 1999, I believe. In an alternate universe they could've rebooted it with Peter Jackson (although DC would most likely not be Bond) and still done the multiple story arc setup. Hopefully in that universe they would also get the rights to Spectre/Blofeld before 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I wonder if this is what happened with Spectre. They got scared and decided to make an average Bond film. I mean what could they have done after Skyfall? Bond going to rehab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I thought, by the way they reset the franchise at the end of Skyfall, that it would have been more a stand alone film. Craig has never had a Bond with a personal implication, CR/QoS being Vesper and SF/Spectre his past. I almost would have liked a Moore-esque romp, just to give the guy a break from all of the mental torture and soul searching.But, they are probably aware that Craig is getting restless (indeed, if he has not gone already). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I would love it if they just did a good villain plot. The surveillance thing had promises but they also had the old "00 section being shut down" and "MI6 is outdated" like we got that in Skyfall. Have Blofeld escape from prison and start hijacking nuclear weapons and shit. Demand money. And let's see the cat again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) These Bond actors never like to stay on long as they consider themselves 'serious' actors, and we would not want to see a repeat of A View To Kill, geriatrics hanging from the Golden Gate Bridge. The way I see it, one film was wasted (QoS). Skyfall was essentially a stand alone but a stand alone in which Bond becomes Bond (the stuff about Blofeld being behind everything in his career was clearly pulled out of their arse for Spectre). The way I see it, it would have been good if QoS never happened and we had Skyfall straight after CR. Then we could have had one good stand alone, then wrapped up the thing with Spectre (which could have been done over two parts if Craig committed). Spectre would have wrapped up the Vesper thing. So,CRStand alone: SkyfallStand alone: ?Spectre (ideally split over two parts so,Spectre 2).That would be four-five films with the Vesper arc bookending the thing.QoS ballsed everything up really. Edited November 24, 2015 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 QoS was a Marc Forster wank fest. Who was the asshole who said "Let's get the guy who did The Kite Runner" and the asshole who said "Great idea! Lets get him!"Forster also fucked up World War Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 If only Martin Campbell had returned. Even with the weak script we'd probably have a more exciting film. All the same, it's a shame that they only got back the rights to SPECTRE in 2013 or the entire Craig era could have been made a bit tighter. Craig did say that QOS was never intended to be as much of a sequel as it is but the writer's strike didn't leave them with much material to work with. Otherwise, it may have been more of a stand-alone with just a few loose ends tied up from Casino Royale.I did watch both Casino and QOS today actually. I find QOS to be more enjoyable when you just marathon the two films because you forgot about the weak plot and awful directing by simply following what Craig's Bond is doing and the loose ends getting tied. Next up will be Skyfall followed by hopefully another round of SPECTRE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 SPECTRE's biggest flaw is that it tried to connect all the films. It was completely unnecessary. Past Bond films have ignored continuity, as I have said since the release of Skyfall, it brought the old Bond and the New Bond together in union. Let the Quantum stuff be done, let Silva be Silva. They never intended Silva to be a part of SPECTRE. Just start fresh. Let's hope if Craig comes back, they have learned their lessons. The biggest problem facing is whether or not WB will buy Bond, the studio that has been making bad decisions since Harry Potter ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I would have liked some wrap up of the Vesper/Mr White thing as it was a loose end, but I do agree that including Skyfall in there was a bit clunky. Could you imagine Silva at Blofeld's beck and call? Perhaps but I would rather do without that image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Perhaps they should have gone the Thunderball route where Thunderball more or less picked up after From Russia With Love as far as story goes and ignores Goldfinger. I'm happy that they finally gave some closure to the Mr. White story but all the same I can agree that it was clunky to include Skyfall when it was clearly never intended to be a part of the story arc. I can believe that Mr. White/Quantum were absorbed by SPECTRE but Silva seems shoehorned in. Skyfall could have been left as Craig's Goldfinger and still gone on with SPECTRE/Quantum without anybody really questioning how Skyfall fit in. They still could have included the minor references to Skyfall (old MI6 building, the bulldog, Judi Dench, etc...) for continuity sake but that doesn't mean every single thing about the plot has to connect.I still say next time around they best get Purvis and Wade from the beginning (I never thought I'd say that) or hire a new writer entirely. It seems they sometimes get scared and tack on more writers at the last minute. While that improved SPECTRE by all accounts, it does seem that too many cooks in the kitchen can cloud the plot and lead to underdeveloped characters. Have Craig, Mendes, Babs, and Mikey sit around to discuss the plot with the writer(s) and then once the direction is figured out, let the writer knock out the script in one continuous voice instead of fifty others. SPECTRE's biggest problem is that it wants to be too many things at once - a stand-alone classic Bond, a carbon copy of Skyfall, part of an ongoing story, and part of a new plot. Luckily, the film is saved by the cast and crew.After watching Casino Royale again, I also have to vote for Martin Campbell as director if Mendes isn't on board. It'd be nice for the Craig-era to come full circle like that. I know he's like 72 but he was at the SPECTRE premiere so he's clearly still in the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardNixon Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 SPECTRE's biggest flaw is that it tried to connect all the films. It was completely unnecessary. Past Bond films have ignored continuity, as I have said since the release of Skyfall, it brought the old Bond and the New Bond together in union. Let the Quantum stuff be done, let Silva be Silva. They never intended Silva to be a part of SPECTRE. Just start fresh. Let's hope if Craig comes back, they have learned their lessons. The biggest problem facing is whether or not WB will buy Bond, the studio that has been making bad decisions since Harry Potter ended.Some people have made the same complaint. Personally, I thought it wrapped up everything very nicely, the way it connected all four films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 After quite the drop off last week, SPECTRE had a terrific third week. I guess Thanksgiving seemed to bring out the Bond crowd. Not only did it top Skyfall's Wednesday and Thursday grosses for this week, it also came mighty close on Tuesday. By the end of the weekend we should be around $180 million domestically. I'll be anxious to see the updated worldwide total on Monday. Right now we're sitting at $691 million but that'll jump once the foreign totals get calculated. Maybe this thing can be another billion dollar Bond after all. Only just, but still. Skyfall and Casino both ran for 14 weeks, so we've got roughly another 10 to go and still 3 before Star Wars does its damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturginho Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 After quite the drop off last week, SPECTRE had a terrific third week. I guess Thanksgiving seemed to bring out the Bond crowd. Not only did it top Skyfall's Wednesday and Thursday grosses for this week, it also came mighty close on Tuesday. By the end of the weekend we should be around $180 million domestically. I'll be anxious to see the updated worldwide total on Monday. Right now we're sitting at $691 million but that'll jump once the foreign totals get calculated. Maybe this thing can be another billion dollar Bond after all. Only just, but still. Skyfall and Casino both ran for 14 weeks, so we've got roughly another 10 to go and still 3 before Star Wars does its damage.Just shy of $750 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyman Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) The best candidate to replace CraigBonus: He just turned 32! And he auditioned with that awful quote at the end of TWINE! Edited December 5, 2015 by Crazyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 I know everybody is pre-occupied with Star Wars (and rightfully so), but SPECTRE is now at $821 million worldwide. Some of the folks on the Bond forums are speculating that the "disappointing gross" will spell the end of Craig as Bond. Meanwhile Craig can pull in that kind of money with a little-hyped, lukewarmly reviewed film. I'd say his drawing power as Bond is fine.The best candidate to replace CraigBonus: He just turned 32! And he auditioned with that awful quote at the end of TWINE!Forget Fassbender - this is our guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm confident we'll get one more Craig film. $820 million is no small feat still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If Craig is not in the next one, I will boycott it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Some cool trivia about Tomorrow Never Dies. In the sea when Bond was doing a halo jump into the South China sea, they realized he was going to land in Vietnamese waters. In the original script they said if he was caught "It would lead to war and maybe this time we will win." Since the US just re-established friendly relations with Vietnam they felt this would incite an international incident so they changed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I picked up Quantum of Solace and Skyfall on blu ray for $3.99 each on Black Friday. I wanted to get Casino Royale as well, but could not find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Not a bad deal at all I must say. Good choices!Some cool trivia about Tomorrow Never Dies. In the sea when Bond was doing a halo jump into the South China sea, they realized he was going to land in Vietnamese waters. In the original script they said if he was caught "It would lead to war and maybe this time we will win." Since the US just re-established friendly relations with Vietnam they felt this would incite an international incident so they changed it.I didn't know about the scripted line, but I can see how it would have fit with the plot. TND, for such a middle of the road Bond film, has a pretty interesting production history. I learned a few new tidbits from the excellent Music of James Bond book. Did you know Duran Duran was approached for the title song? The studio asked a handful of artists to submit a song. None of the artists were made aware that they were "competing" and so most assumed they had the gig. Somewhere along the way the unspoken "contest" got sidelined and the studio pushed for Sheryl Crow.Of course, David Arnold had already written Surrender and based the entire score on that material, but the studio (not EON, mind you, but MGM) ruled in favour of Sheryl Crow so Surrender got demoted. Pricks. EON let Arnold have his way with TWINE but when the song wasn't a hit the studio intervened again with DAD and pushed for Madonna.And of course, the title was originally the far superior Tomorrow Never Lies until a typo encouraged the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Rediohead released their rejected SPECTRE theme: I don't love it or anything, but it's 100% better than Sam Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 I'll give a listen later. I'm no Radiohead fan but compared to Sam Smith, it sure can't be any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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