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When did Rock lose it's balls?


Vincent Vega

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Guest Len B'stard

Basically, you want the black influence back in rock n roll, a move away from the the more groove-less post punk type thing thats kinda taken over music since black people stopped bothering with musical instruments? :lol: Thats the best i can gather from what you're saying.

Again it's like wasting today dreaming about tommorow. Can i ask you something Miser? Did you ever try playing an instrument yourself or maybe writing songs? I'm not being flippant here, it's quite a serious question, you see a lot wrong with music as it stands, pick up an instrument man. Listen to your favorite bands, try and do what they do, bring the groove back. Sounds like big talk but the difference between you and a musician is the desicion to pick up an instrument, go for it, bring the groove back and i'll be first in line for a ticket. You write anyway as is so thats kinda half the race run.

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It's not that there's no good bands out there, no good music, but you need to keep seeking it out and spread the word. There's few bands that are building a following as much as people just cherrypicking songs from different artists for their mixes.

I think guys like Elton, Bono, and Bruce are always listening for what's out there in the clubs, Axl too. I'm sure Robert Plant tries to keep tabs on what's going on now, and not the past. He's listened to all that stuff, he wrote some of that stuff, it's just making a living for him to go out and do Zep songs.

I think all bands have heart, even the cheesy ones. To choose that life is pretty ballsy in itself, because the odds of making it are stacked against you. Everyone in a successful band will tell you there's a lot of talented guys who never took it to the next level because they had huge egos or no confidence. Even the original guys in GNR, you had 2 guys who bailed 3 months later. That band could've easily been just another obscure name in LA rock history.

You can see "The Year Punk Broke" or any pre Nevermind club video and know Nirvana were going to make it. They were doing Unplugged at in-stores when Nevermind came out.

REM had no balls. They were jangly, mumbly, and whiny, no one knew half the stuff they were singing about, people can go back the way they did with Judas Priest and figure which ones were coded gay songs. I'm sure people within Athens GA knew Stipe's deal as much as Fred Schneider of the B-52s. I think staying close to home also helps with keeping your private life private. Works for Izzy, doesn't it? Duff can go about life and if someone spots him, he's cool with it, but after 5 or 6 times, they're over it and he's just another local who lives on the nice side of the tracks.

"Losing My Religion" was kind of Stipe cracking the closet open, but not really admitting to anything, either. They were more "rock" when "Green" came out.

Cobain was a feminist, so it wasn't about cruising for chicks in backwater Washington state, drinking a cold one, and it's summertime, life's a party, bro. The beaches are rocky, the weather is rainy, and there's fuck all to do in a town like Aberdeen Washington, or Aberdeen Scotland.

Most of the time a movement or a scene happens because they're all a looseknit group of friends that support each other, and they're not all musicians. Whether it's The Beatles, the Stones, or GNR, it's been a part of any major band and the bands that followed. There stopped being a need to migrate to Los Angeles if you play music in the late 80s, that's why Boston, Chicago, Seattle, and San Diego as well as Anaheim and Tampa built up these "scenes". New York , which had been the center of music entertainment for decades, kind of ended around the 80s, and had a bit of a comeback in the 90s, but nothing major. Boston's overlooked as far as its music history goes, but to me, it's one of the most important, because of all the universities there and people eventually going elsewhere to work, but still supporting the bands they first listened to there. It was important for Led Zep to play there, Nirvana, U2, etc. The home of Aerosmith,The Pixies.... and GG Allin. And those pesky New Kids.

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Basically, you want the black influence back in rock n roll, a move away from the the more groove-less post punk type thing thats kinda taken over music since black people stopped bothering with musical instruments? :lol: Thats the best i can gather from what you're saying.

Again it's like wasting today dreaming about tommorow. Can i ask you something Miser? Did you ever try playing an instrument yourself or maybe writing songs? I'm not being flippant here, it's quite a serious question, you see a lot wrong with music as it stands, pick up an instrument man. Listen to your favorite bands, try and do what they do, bring the groove back. Sounds like big talk but the difference between you and a musician is the desicion to pick up an instrument, go for it, bring the groove back and i'll be first in line for a ticket. You write anyway as is so thats kinda half the race run.

Actually yes I going to say basically when the black influence left Rock N' Roll or when Rock became more "white" but I thought I'd come off racist, but yes, that is exactly what I mean. The black influence and grooves and attitude which shaped some of the best rock music ever, which is pretty much gone today.

I tried guitar, I had one got lessons but I got lazy. I'd probably be pretty good if I actually applied myself. I'd like to retry it again. I write lyrics and whatnot but I find I come up with better stuff when I don't sit and write, when it just comes to me ad libbed or whatever the proper term is. When I try to write it feels forced and comes out bad, when I just sing shit that comes into my mind I roll with it. I used to play piano really well but haven't had practice in years. I've compiled over 24,000 songs in my IPod in all genres of music for this purpose, to listen to, study, get the feel of all sorts of music, the production techniques and styles, etc, even shit I hate, with the goal of using the best to help me create something really interesting.If I had an IPOD with more space, I'd have more music, but I have the biggest memory IPod and it's full.

My dream is getting a band together and making something that's like what I miss hearing. The problem is I'm fucking LAZY in terms of learning instruments, and I can't find people who'd be devoted to music, most are devoted to "real life", or don't have the time.

I have been told I sing good, though......

Edited by Vincent Vega
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Guest Len B'stard

Basically, you want the black influence back in rock n roll, a move away from the the more groove-less post punk type thing thats kinda taken over music since black people stopped bothering with musical instruments? :lol: Thats the best i can gather from what you're saying.

Again it's like wasting today dreaming about tommorow. Can i ask you something Miser? Did you ever try playing an instrument yourself or maybe writing songs? I'm not being flippant here, it's quite a serious question, you see a lot wrong with music as it stands, pick up an instrument man. Listen to your favorite bands, try and do what they do, bring the groove back. Sounds like big talk but the difference between you and a musician is the desicion to pick up an instrument, go for it, bring the groove back and i'll be first in line for a ticket. You write anyway as is so thats kinda half the race run.

Actually yes I going to say basically when the black influence left Rock N' Roll or when Rock became more "white" but I thought I'd come off racist, but yes, that is exactly what I mean. The black influence and grooves and attitude which shaped some of the best rock music ever, which is pretty much gone today.

I tried guitar, I had one got lessons but I got lazy. I'd probably be pretty good if I actually applied myself. I'd like to retry it again. I write lyrics and whatnot but I find I come up with better stuff when I don't sit and write, when it just comes to me ad libbed or whatever the proper term is. When I try to write it feels forced and comes out bad, when I just sing shit that comes into my mind I roll with it. I used to play piano really well but haven't had practice in years. I've compiled over 24,000 songs in my IPod in all genres of music for this purpose, to listen to, study, get the feel of all sorts of music, the production techniques and styles, etc, even shit I hate, with the goal of using the best to help me create something really interesting.If I had an IPOD with more space, I'd have more music, but I have the biggest memory IPod and it's full.

My dream is getting a band together and making something that's like what I miss hearing. The problem is I'm fucking LAZY in terms of learning instruments, and I can't find people who'd be devoted to music, most are devoted to "real life", or don't have the time.

I have been told I sing good, though......

Do it man, it's better than sitting around doing jackshit, get on it, Jesus, if you love this stuff as much as you spend time studying it and listening to the albums and reading up on the shit, you could be learning to play your own shit. Lazy, whats lazy mean, it's supposed to be a consuming passion, lazy shouldn't really factor in.

It's one thing being clever and smart and knowing lotsa shit but when it comes to learning something real and practical the best intellects seem to get lazy, i dunno why that is.

Edited by sugaraylen
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See for me I just find most current 'rock' (if you can even call it that) to bland. You don't get the depth of sounds & the feeling behind the songs that you used to. It always just seems like they're going through the motions of performing 'x' or 'y' song, rather than actually WANTING to, or putting any oomph behind it.

But hey-ho, if thats the sort of music thats in demand, it's the perceptions of the listeners that need changing, and then everything else will fall into place

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As music progresses those that come after take what came before and expand on it. That's what should happen. How in the fuck can you all blame Nirvana for the record companies taking the model of Nirvana, dumbing it down, watering it down, making it more pop and only signing bands that fit that model? How is that Nirvana's fault? Do you dislike Motley Crue and Van Halen because of bands like Cinderella and Poison?

It's not Nirvana's fault for being so influential on a generation or two, it's the fault of those that came after for dumbing down instead of expanding out and it's the fault of those that pimp this type of dumbed down shit.

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As music progresses those that come after take what came before and expand on it. That's what should happen. How in the fuck can you all blame Nirvana for the record companies taking the model of Nirvana, dumbing it down, watering it down, making it more pop and only signing bands that fit that model? How is that Nirvana's fault? Do you dislike Motley Crue and Van Halen because of bands like Cinderella and Poison?

It's not Nirvana's fault for being so influential on a generation or two, it's the fault of those that came after for dumbing down instead of expanding out and it's the fault of those that pimp this type of dumbed down shit.

Very well said :thumbsup:

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It's actually pretty easy to blame Nirvana when they were the first corporate rock act with absolutely no balls of their own. Nobody took Nirvana, repackaged it, and dumbed it down. They just made exact copies over and over again. Cinderella and Poison both had more balls than Nirvana. They were just stuffed somewhere up their manginas.

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As music progresses those that come after take what came before and expand on it. That's what should happen. How in the fuck can you all blame Nirvana for the record companies taking the model of Nirvana, dumbing it down, watering it down, making it more pop and only signing bands that fit that model? How is that Nirvana's fault? Do you dislike Motley Crue and Van Halen because of bands like Cinderella and Poison?

It's not Nirvana's fault for being so influential on a generation or two, it's the fault of those that came after for dumbing down instead of expanding out and it's the fault of those that pimp this type of dumbed down shit.

nirvana was all ready dumbed down and watered down it was pop songs for angsty 15 year olds, it was kurt who said he wanted to simplify songs and make them like nursery rhymes

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If the music has no balls then how can it be considered rock n roll? Rock has never lost its balls. It's impossible. Those components are complimentary to each other. One cannot exist without the other.

Ever hear of Maroon 5 or Train

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If the music has no balls then how can it be considered rock n roll? Rock has never lost its balls. It's impossible. Those components are complimentary to each other. One cannot exist without the other.

Ever hear of Maroon 5 or Train

Not taking that slight against Train...

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It's one thing being clever and smart and knowing lotsa shit but when it comes to learning something real and practical the best intellects seem to get lazy, i dunno why that is.

I read this really interesting book once about human analysis. Some people are purely one of 5 types and some are combinations of the 5 types. Basically, the cerebral group are generally intellectual (although it's not always an indication of high intelligence) and they tend to analyse things a lot. They spend a lot of time thinking, but are not generally that good a getting stuff done, you know, being practical. This is totally in keeping with what you described, Lenny.

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Guest Len B'stard

It's one thing being clever and smart and knowing lotsa shit but when it comes to learning something real and practical the best intellects seem to get lazy, i dunno why that is.

I read this really interesting book once about human analysis. Some people are purely one of 5 types and some are combinations of the 5 types. Basically, the cerebral group are generally intellectual (although it's not always an indication of high intelligence) and they tend to analyse things a lot. They spend a lot of time thinking, but are not generally that good a getting stuff done, you know, being practical. This is totally in keeping with what you described, Lenny.

I think, with music, playing an instrument, you need more than just creativity, you need brains, like Maths and Science type brains, this is why i suck at the guitar, i like making sounds and through just doing certain things over and over and having a feel for shit i could maybe slap something together but to REALLY understand the components of music, how it's put together takes a fair degree of brains.

Y'know what i think? People that over analyse are perhaps not very intelligent people because shit doesn't make immediate sense to them, they have to grasp to figure things out. People that need to understand EVERY detail are people that don't have the instinctive intellect to grasp the broader gist of something with a reasonable amount of explanation, they need a detailed and precise blueprint of what the thing in question is, meaning it takes longer for the penny to drop.

Things like strumming patterns for example is like, your instinctive intellect can hear the shit briefly then gradually work it out but your over-analytical type needs to know exactly like, OK, strumming hand goes up twice, down once, up twice again, then three downs, y'know, like that, like everything broken done.

The ability to visualise i think is a function of pure intellect. Like you'll find some old timer who don't have a stick of education to his name but you show em like a blueprint to build something or perhaps a numerical pattern and they can suss it out at the drop of a hat whereas someone like me who fancys himself as fairly OK intellectually, i'd be fucked. It's with directions too, like y'know how some people are incapable of giving directions? I'm like that, i can't give directions to save my life, even if i've been round a place a million times, i just don't have that...natural intellect that some people have, those are your proper intelligent people i think and they're usually the same kind of people that can look at a guitar like, OK, 12 frets, 6 strings, 72 notes and just figure the shit out once they're taught the basics.

I think a lot of that has to do with how impractical modern society is becoming, in the age of convenience a lot of what we do isn't practical physical stuff, intellect is as much to do with a persons ability to utilise it than just it's existence.

This is why so many people look at certain avante garde stuff and sneer at it because the notion is that perhaps this is a person incapable of mastering conventional modes and methods. And it's difficult to subvert something you don't truly understand.

But yeah, i think proper intellect is that sort of thing, that practical thing, that ability to visualise, the rest of the shit you can learn really, it's just about interest and commitment but that practical sort of intelligence, based on logic and maths and like...degrees of things and applying logic, the sort of thing Dazey does, Chemical Engineering or what have you, thats proper smarts, people like me and Miser, although i am loathe to consider myself part of anything Miser is about, pretty much just repeat shit we heard/read.

I bet you any money that if someone like Dazey picked up a guitar and played it for the exact length of time that i had with the same amount of commitment, he'd come in head and shoulders above me in terms of his having grasped the theory of the instrument cuz it's basically all based on maths. I think naturally gifted people, like your Jimi Hendrix or what have you, have that kind of instinctive intelligence and understanding of logic to do what they do. Thats why when you listen to him in interviews, he's actually quite smart, for someone with little to no formal education he's really a brilliant case to for like, natural intellect.

Edited by sugaraylen
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I know where you are coming from and you probably have a point but I think there are different types of intelligence. Some people have a real philosophical type of brain and they're really good at understanding BIG concepts and emotional type things and then there are those that are really more straight down the line and practical and can process numerical and scientific type things better. It's not to say that one is more 'intelligent' than the other, it's just different. I also really believe that what you have been exposed to over years has a big impact on how you hone your intelligence. It causes you to think about things in perhaps a different way to someone else and therefore come up with a different result than the other would.

I absolutely reject the idea that people who analyse are less intelligent. To me that's just about curiosity. I know plenty of people who have no interest or need to analyse anything and who are really not that bright. Curiosity is fundamental I believe to intelligence, but not necessarily essential. You can be curious but if the intellect is not that high that person will stop processing at a certain point what they are discovering and not use the information for any purpose. Whereas a highly intelligent person will have no limit to where they go from there.

And Lenny, you're a LOT smarter than what you give yourself credit for. *curtsey* :)

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