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Do you think Axl bottled ‘Chinese Democracy’ in 2004 because of Velvet Revolver?


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There is debate even today about the beginnings of Chinese Democracy. What we can all accept however is that an acceleration of this process took place in 1999. Finck, Freese, Tobias, unnamed contributors and others that remain to this present were all jamming trying to make Axl’s vision a reality. A 1999 record is historically said to have been a possibility, but 2000 Intentions never came to fruition, all we have to confirm its existence is later leaks said to be directly from those sessions.

The band continued to record new songs post-2000 when as well all know, perhaps the best duo in the history of New Guns N’ Roses were drafted into the project, BuckMan. Between their recruitment and 2004, it is the widespread consensus that tracks in the vein of Shacklers became a reality. While 1999 could be seen as the optimum era to drop the bomb as such, with the introduction of eccentric new songs from the BuckMan, you could have seen the album come to fruition say, 2003-2004. Certainly, VH1’s Behind The Music were of the believe that Chinese Democracy was slated for release in November 2004. Which it initially was according to Dizzy.

Do you think with Velvet Revolver’s double hit in May and October of 2004, that Axl possibly opted (with a combination of other factors presumably) not to release his own album? Out of fear of the media directly pitting Axl’s Guns v those of Slash? Chinese Democracy would merely be seen in the context of competing with Contraband, it would not necessarily demand its own individual judgement and recognition perhaps in other years where Velvet would be more dormant in terms of activity. Personally, if I was verging on the release of my masterpiece, I wouldn’t want it out there in a timeframe corresponding the latest effort with my greatest musical foe.

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Never really thought about it, but yeah maybe. Knowing Axl's deep seeded hatred for Slash and how he obsessively kept an eye on VR while they were making their debut, maybe he felt he had to one up them and add more layers to the songs?

I say that because how many songs on Chinese Democracy did they actually write between 04 and 08? In those years they were still tweaking as far as I know.

Edited by sweetness
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That would have been amazing to get VR record and Axl record in the same year. Man, 2000s were a missed opportunity for our boy, Axl. Time got away from him and now it's too late to be a force, but not too late to open that fn vault.

I'm sure a VR record played some sort of role in decision-making. They were really big for a while, and yeah, the media would have made it an Axl vs. Slash/Duff thing for sure.

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how many songs on Chinese Democracy did they actually write between 04 and 08? In those years they were still tweaking as far as I know.

I think no new songs have been put on the table during those years. The most part of the album was done by 2004. I don't really know what they were up to in 2005 (most mysterious year in CD history, I think), then in 2006/2007 were added Bumble and Frank's overdubs and some other minor things like Bach's part in Sorry, then it was time for mixing and mastering.

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how many songs on Chinese Democracy did they actually write between 04 and 08? In those years they were still tweaking as far as I know.

I think no new songs have been put on the table during those years. The most part of the album was done by 2004. I don't really know what they were up to in 2005 (most mysterious year in CD history, I think), then in 2006/2007 were added Bumble and Frank's overdubs and some other minor things like Bach's part in Sorry, then it was time for mixing and mastering.

As far as i know Better was written circa 2005.

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I think we were lucky to get it at all in 2008. It seems the only reason for the release than was the leaks, which I think hurt CD sales to a degree.

But yeah, I think they waited for the VR album hype to die out,plus unknown drama behind the scenes..

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2002 was meant to be the year?

but GNR were pretty silent when Contraband came out. I think what kicked off VR was seeing Axl at the VMAs with a new band, which ironically seemed to put things on hold.

I could see Axl not wanting to promote VR by being around for the media to maul him. Seeing as Axl had most to lose it makes sense. Slash and boys could hand towels out in the showers of Auschwitz and still get a pass.

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2002 was meant to be the year?

but GNR were pretty silent when Contraband came out. I think what kicked off VR was seeing Axl at the VMAs with a new band, which ironically seemed to put things on hold.

I could see Axl not wanting to promote VR by being around for the media to maul him. Seeing as Axl had most to lose it makes sense. Slash and boys could hand towels out in the showers of Auschwitz and still get a pass.

Serious question. Why do you think the entire world's media is out to get Axl Rose?

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Axl was also dealing with Bucket quitting, the Greatest Hits lawsuit with Duff and Slash against Geffen, and re-recording lawsuit against Duff and Slash in 04-05.

Never knew Axl caused a delay for Les Claypool in 2003.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1458874/bucketheads-brains-on-hold.jhtml

If Axl didn't want Chinese Democracy out, Jimmy Iovine would've gladly shelved it, and GNR would've gone on to work on something else. Axl was doing the songs live, so I do feel he did want the album out.

I think Axl was trying to avoid getting into journalists baiting him into discussing what Slash, Duff and Matt were saying at the time, and turning it into a Van Halen-like back and forth thing, plus if they were going to court against each other, the less Axl said at the time, the better.

CD was hurt by not being widely available and Axl not actively promoting it. It was nice of him to come out and ask the fans what they thought and if it had been moderated better, prob. would've said much more about the songs on the album.

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2002 was meant to be the year?

but GNR were pretty silent when Contraband came out. I think what kicked off VR was seeing Axl at the VMAs with a new band, which ironically seemed to put things on hold.

I could see Axl not wanting to promote VR by being around for the media to maul him. Seeing as Axl had most to lose it makes sense. Slash and boys could hand towels out in the showers of Auschwitz and still get a pass.

Serious question. Why do you think the entire world's media is out to get Axl Rose?

I dont I think maybe Axl feels like that as per Billboard interview. Theres hardly anyone or mag he trusts. I mean he used the Billboard to plead with them or ask why. Its not as personal as he might think. Its just easier to sell the other guys. They play ball.

Right now things are better but around or up to 2006 there was hardly a good word written about Axl. Maybe bcos he didnt talk to them so fhey made stuff or gave Slash airspace to spin it a certain way.

So I dont see them being out to get him as a bad thing. This is his role or job. I think might have realized and just plays up to it.

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Well yeah, since nearly every song on Contraband is better than most songs on CD, Axl must've panicked and scratched some complete shit songs (Silkworms) and reworked others (The Blues) for the millionth time and wrote other new ones (Better).

Though it didn't help a lot, since Contraband is still mostly better than CD, but it was definitely a factor, IMO.

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Well yeah, since nearly every song on Contraband is better than most songs on CD, Axl must've panicked and scratched some complete shit songs (Silkworms) and reworked others (The Blues) for the millionth time and wrote other new ones (Better).

Though it didn't help a lot, since Contraband is still mostly better than CD, but it was definitely a factor, IMO.

Pretty much.

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Does anyone else remember the story of Axl playing the entire album for a famous record exec around 2002 and the exec saying "this one track's good, the rest is shit"?

That couldn't have helped things.

I remember Axl playing Bob Ezrin Chinese in the early '00s, and Ezrin saying "out of all the 40 songs you've played me, you have maybe 3 good songs." Of course, he just produces records for a living. What does he know?

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