Has a film ever been done about a script?

[Vincent Vega]

Does anyone know of any films which didn't have a script, just general ideas for where it should go, with the rest done on the fly? Not veering into an incoherent direction, just more making it up as you go with a concise product in the end. It might be an interesting thing....

[Guest Len B'stard]

They say John Cassavetes, at least his early movies, Shadows and Faces were done like that, they feel like it a bit but depending on who you believe some say they were tightly scripted, they certainly don't feel like it though. You should really check out Cassavetes if you're into movies Miser, it's extremely rewarding, i think he's the greatest director that ever lived. Check out Woman Under the Influence, Faces and Shadows in that order

Thinkin' of making a film Miser? Good on ya

[FuddMckagan]

The only way you could do that was if you had a very clear idea of how each scene would play out, a "general idea" would most likely fail spectacularly. You would also need to work with actors who could ad lib really well, and who could keep the scene going in the proper direction.

It's much better to write a script.

[Redhead74]

Where's Angelica? She'd probably know all there is to know about this. I thought there was a lot of stage and theatre performance with improvisation as opposed to a formal script. It seems to work fine and well with theatre but film requires so many more elements than theatre that I suspect it's hard to get it all together when there's no set script.

[Guest Len B'stard]

It's not really hard to get it altogether without a set script, well it is hard but it's possible. If you got a series of scenes and and set pieces and the actors know where each scene has to end up without acute physical direction of a script, yeah, it's possible. The actors know their motivations and just improvise.

But see a script is a weird thing too, depends what kinda script you're talking about, certain scripts like shooting scripts can have like really really precise direction in them, standing like this, facing that-a-way etc etc but then you get your basic screenplay one which just says the actors dialogue and what they do physically, some are written almost like novels, describing the reactions etc, some are literally written like, such and such REACTS and it's up to the actor to work out what that reaction is, it just depends.

Read a screenplay for instance written by QT and then read one of your favorite sitcom or whatever and then a third one from a theatre production and they are massively different. Some are like pure fuckin' directors scripts that detail right down to the specifics of, OK, tracking shot, then handheld, crane shot, deep focus, shallow focus etc etc etc

Personally, if i was to write a script it'd have to be like the one i just described, i don't like this slack-jawed fuckin' approach, it works for some but it should never be a substitute for vision. Thats why i love Hitchock because he had every single little fuckin' thing totally and utterly laid out to the last fuckin' grain of detail, all story-boarded and everything, every single frame of film accounted for in his head and on paper and every day of shooting all organised and reading so you know what you're doing every day, everything organised and set for kick off.

As a director too, you should pride yourself on that shit, a lot of film students get into film thinking its some wild and woolly Jim Morrison HWY arrangement but end of the day you have a budget, you have a producer watching over you making sure you come in on budget on schedule, you should fuckin' pride yourself on like, the professionalism of nailing it and doing it all right and all proper, especially if it's your first film cuz producers ain't above going "this cunt don't know what he's doing, someone call Ronnie Howard!"

Edited March 5, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Redhead74]

Holy moley! I forgot that you know all about this stuff Len! I always reckoned you should write scripts, comedy ones at that!

I find directors absolutely mesmerising and fascinating. It takes a very unique individual to be able to direct a film and do it well. They are kind of like the ultimate artist because they have to have a grasp of so many different elements and if any one fails, the whole film fails. It's really fascinating to see how different they are just by analysing their scripts. It says so much about who they and what they are and you're right Len, they MUST have a vision. That's the whole art. And seriously anyone who would put themselves through making a film, with all the stress and pressure, is someone who is born to do it. The profession chose them, they didn't chose it. Because no one in their right mind would do it willingly. Respect for a good director!!!

Hitchcock was fucking amazing. I also love the fact that despite his 'every single tiny detail fully planned' he was also known to have some of the longest takes in film history. I think 'Rope' has the longest takes of any film made, if I'm not mistaken. I think a reel of film at the time was something like 20 minutes long and he made each take 20 minutes to use a full reel of film for each take. Maybe something to do with budget, I don't know, but it was a great film IMO? Some argue that the long takes didn't do the film any favours but I love the fact that he experimented in that way and broke new ground. Amazing man!

[Guest Len B'stard]

But i mean, thats a certain type of director, everyone in a sense puts their own stamp on a thing and that but...it's like some bird comin' off the street into your gaff goin' 'i'm getting married in two weeks, i need me a dress and it's gotta look like this and this and this' and the come the day she turns up and you're like 'your design was alright but i put this zip here where your tits should be in tribute to Viv Westwoods early work, a few slashes up the back to denote the struggle between the gestative state of maiden-dom and married-woman-dom and red gold and green swastika to denote that the grooms a rasta and the best mans a Nazi, i thought you'd like it!' she's gonna tell you to fuck off y'know?

There must be a certain amount of professional pride in executing that which you've been commisioned to and that. Everybody wants to be an artist but there's something to be said for your craftswomen/men too. A helluva lot, the craftsmanship is sort of what you/a director gets paid for, thats what the moneys about.

Ropes a wonderful fuckin' example actually because it's a craftsman whoose using the medium to exercise his artistic muscles (just imagined Hitchcock in Speedos on a bodybuilders platform ) but serve a functional purpose too, THAT to me is nailing it, cuz it's an artistic choice but it also has a specific function in terms of making an entertaining film of it, the claustrophobia of it all y'know?

Edited March 5, 2013 by sugaraylen

[wasted]

Slacker comes to mind or Before Sunrise. There was no script really for Slacker just a lot of bits stuck together. But yeah that does seem difficult to do bcos studios need product. Before u get budget they are predicting opening box office. But a lot of directors shoot a lot and edit it. There is script but it changes. Coppola Stone do that. What does Lars Von Tiers do? dont tell me that stuff is scrited.

[Revolver]

A well known editor tried this method when she started out directing.. it didn't work out very well, the stories were unfocused and flat. She did two films like that after editing masterpieces such as 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind'

[Guest Len B'stard]

Slacker comes to mind or Before Sunrise. There was no script really for Slacker just a lot of bits stuck together. But yeah that does seem difficult to do bcos studios need product. Before u get budget they are predicting opening box office. But a lot of directors shoot a lot and edit it. There is script but it changes. Coppola Stone do that. What does Lars Von Tiers do? dont tell me that stuff is scrited.

Good point, i'm pretty sure The Idiots and that one set at a dinnertable ain't scripted.

[wasted]

Dogville? was that improv theatre bullshit. Was Aocalypse Now scripted or did they just float up river shooting scenes from the book.

[Redhead74]

Dogville? was that improv theatre bullshit. Was Aocalypse Now scripted or did they just float up river shooting scenes from the book.

That's exactly what I thought about Dogville too, but when I googled it, it didn't say anything about improv. I'm damn certain it was though.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Redhead74

[Guest Len B'stard]

Dogville? was that improv theatre bullshit. Was Aocalypse Now scripted or did they just float up river shooting scenes from the book.

You don't need scripts when you got Marlon Brando

[Redhead74]

But i mean, thats a certain type of director, everyone in a sense puts their own stamp on a thing and that but...it's like some bird comin' off the street into your gaff goin' 'i'm getting married in two weeks, i need me a dress and it's gotta look like this and this and this' and the come the day she turns up and you're like 'your design was alright but i put this zip here where your tits should be in tribute to Viv Westwoods early work, a few slashes up the back to denote the struggle between the gestative state of maiden-dom and married-woman-dom and red gold and green swastika to denote that the grooms a rasta and the best mans a Nazi, i thought you'd like it!' she's gonna tell you to fuck off y'know?

There must be a certain amount of professional pride in executing that which you've been commisioned to and that. Everybody wants to be an artist but there's something to be said for your craftswomen/men too. A helluva lot, the craftsmanship is sort of what you/a director gets paid for, thats what the moneys about.

Ropes a wonderful fuckin' example actually because it's a craftsman whoose using the medium to exercise his artistic muscles (just imagined Hitchcock in Speedos on a bodybuilders platform ) but serve a functional purpose too, THAT to me is nailing it, cuz it's an artistic choice but it also has a specific function in terms of making an entertaining film of it, the claustrophobia of it all y'know?

Hahahaha! Fucking brilliant example! That's exactly what film is, an artists vision but executed by the professional skills of the craftsman/woman. It sooooooooo much harder than most people realise. When I worked in advertising I went on TV shoots that lasted a few days and were HELL. A film shoot goes for months! I really don't know how the director holds it all together and achieves something of brilliance at the same time?

[Guest Len B'stard]

But i mean, thats a certain type of director, everyone in a sense puts their own stamp on a thing and that but...it's like some bird comin' off the street into your gaff goin' 'i'm getting married in two weeks, i need me a dress and it's gotta look like this and this and this' and the come the day she turns up and you're like 'your design was alright but i put this zip here where your tits should be in tribute to Viv Westwoods early work, a few slashes up the back to denote the struggle between the gestative state of maiden-dom and married-woman-dom and red gold and green swastika to denote that the grooms a rasta and the best mans a Nazi, i thought you'd like it!' she's gonna tell you to fuck off y'know?

There must be a certain amount of professional pride in executing that which you've been commisioned to and that. Everybody wants to be an artist but there's something to be said for your craftswomen/men too. A helluva lot, the craftsmanship is sort of what you/a director gets paid for, thats what the moneys about.

Ropes a wonderful fuckin' example actually because it's a craftsman whoose using the medium to exercise his artistic muscles (just imagined Hitchcock in Speedos on a bodybuilders platform ) but serve a functional purpose too, THAT to me is nailing it, cuz it's an artistic choice but it also has a specific function in terms of making an entertaining film of it, the claustrophobia of it all y'know?

Hahahaha! Fucking brilliant example! That's exactly what film is, an artists vision but executed by the professional skills of the craftsman/woman. It sooooooooo much harder than most people realise. When I worked in advertising I went on TV shoots that lasted a few days and were HELL. A film shoot goes for months! I really don't know how the director holds it all together and achieves something of brilliance at the same time?

John Huston relied on alcohol predominantly

[Redhead74]

^ I wouldn't blame him for a single second!

[wasted]

I saw some promo doc about Dogville. Tape is another one may not have had a tight script.

Robert Altman im not sure but Pret a Porter was filmed on set.

Godard too may just set the scene in Weekend and just said run about hacking chickens.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Directors get a bit too much credit too i think. I mean, the meat and potatoes of the job is done by the cinematographer in terms of like, the compositon of what goes into a frame of film, THAT to me is the artistry, a director could just as easily be a bit of a bluffer if you think about it, the frame composed, everythings set up and he just looks at it and goes "Hmmm!! Yes! Well done, yes, thats exactly what i was looking for *to the bar* yes, large brandy, thank you!"

People want their to be one artist because people want geniuses to look up to but it's very much a collaborative thing, too much is made of the whole auteur thing but i guess it different from one director to another.

[wasted]

I saw some promo doc about Dogville. Tape is another one may not have had a tight script.

Robert Altman im not sure but Pret a Porter was filmed on set.

Godard too may just set the scene in Weekend aond just said run about hacking chickens.

Also 200 cigarettes or cigarettes and coffee was just people talking about stuff.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Coffee and Cigarettes was definitely scripted man, that conversation between Iggy and Tom Waits, that tension, they didn't stumble on that, definitely fuckin' scripted. I reckon anyway.

[wasted]

I think they just film a load of stuff and pick the best parts. Im sure Etham hawke said way gayer shit than was aklowed to be shown in after sunset.

Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet. Or anything. Theres no way there was a script for Apoc Now.

Jennifers Body. No script.

People in improv still fallback on acting. I just made that up.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Yeah, a lot of the dialogue on Apocalypse, particularly Dennis Hoppers cokehead ranting, that ain't fuckin' scripted, yeah, i can see what you mean.

WHAT ARE THEY GONNA SAY MAAAN? HE WAS A GOOD MAN? BULLSHIT MAN, AM I GONNA BE THE ONE TO TELL THE STORY?!! LOOK AT ME!! WRONG, WRONG!! But you...

The man has enlarged my mind! He's a poet, warrior in the classic sense of the word! You know somedays he won't speak and then he'll grab you and say 'did you know if is the middle word in life?'

CUZ HE DIES WHEN IT DIES MAANNN...AND IT DIES WHEN HE DIES!!

Sorry, love Dennis Hopper in that film!

[wasted]

I think there was a script but Hopper didnt learn his words. Same with Brando he didnt read the book.

You cant go to space on a fraction man.

Also the Martin Sheen punching the mirror scene wasnt really.

Its all in Heart of Darkness doc. Its better than the movie.

Edited March 5, 2013 by wasted

[JONEZY]

Well there was a ton of improv in the Christopher Guest movies (Waiting for Guffman,Best in Show, etc), but even those movies had a script, I think?

[Tyler Drama]

In the thread title, is "about" supposed to actually be "without"?