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Interesting--Alan Niven wanted to fire Axl right after AFD came out


Vincent Vega

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METAL SLUDGE: Oh, one thing I was wondering about: Was there ever a time when Guns N’ Roses almost broke up before all the success?


AN: Yes, in Phoenix. There was a riot. I sat the band down and said, “Look, I made a commitment to this band, but if you decide on another singer, I’ll stand by you.” They thought about it, too.


Doing a check on GN'R's shows, they played Phoenix on these dates during Alan's tenure:

09.07.87 - The Jar, Phoenix, AZ


02.12.88 - Celebrity Theatre, Phoenix, AZ



02.13.88 - Celebrity Theatre, Phoenix, AZ


07.09.88 - Celebrity Theatre, Phoenix, AZ


07.10.88 - Celebrity Theatre, Phoenix, AZ


So sometime during one of these five dates, Alan attempted to get the band to fire Axl and they seriously considered it. And in either case, it was either right after AFD had come out (AFD came out in July '87, they played Phoenix in September), or right as AFD was taking off in popularity in '88. Makes one wonder if there any other, later attempts by Alan to get Axl fired...Axl did say part of the reason he put the bit about getting the band name in the contract was because their then manager (Alan) was always speaking in people's ears trying to get him fired.


Also muddles the picture further about when Axl did the whole 'name contract' thing. Niven says it happened not long after he was fired, in May '91. Slash had the date as on or around September 1st 1992. Duff gives it as July 7th 1993.





Edited by Vincent Vega
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Its possible, it seem to me that Niven was still angry at uncle Axl a way or another

Man that's creepy when guys call him "Uncle Axl". It was a line in a cheesy flash cartoon 12 years ago. Let it go.

OT: Yeah, I can see the band being pissed so that they'd fire Axl. Kinda weird how they all got sick of him (except Steven) and quit anyway.

Edited by Chris 55
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Also muddles the picture further about when Axl did the whole 'name contract' thing. Niven says it happened not long after he was fired, in May '91. Slash had the date as on or around September 1st 1992. Duff gives it as July 7th 1993.

It was Sept 1st 1992. The legal documents are on Chinese Whsipers.
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Axl did say part of the reason he put the bit about getting the band name in the contract was because their then manager (Alan) was always speaking in people's ears trying to get him fired.

So, it's Niven's fault that Axl got the name...

Nice, i fucking hate this idiot

Not possible. Uncle Axl was essential in Guns.

and this

Without Axl, there would be no GNR anymore

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How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Edited by NGOG
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"When Guns renegotiated our contract with Geffen I had the bit about the name added in as protection for myself as I had come up with the name and then originally started the band with it. It had more to do with management than the band as our then manager was always tryin’ to convince someone they should fire me. As I had stopped speaking with him he sensed his days were numbered and was bending any ear he could along with attempting to sell our renegotiation out for a personal payday from Geffen."--Axl


Note that Alan Niven did admit he made $3.5 million from Guns after he left.



AN: All the prep work for “Illusions” and its tour, all the renegotiations, everything had been done. So I was then dispensable. Simple really. … I effectively sold my rights to all pipeline and future earnings for a fraction of their worth back in 1991. Such was my emotional condition at the time that all I desired was to be rid of all future dealings with Axl and Goldstein.


I did not get contrary or better advice from those whose responsibility it was to make such effort – like my attorney at the time, my accountant at the time. I am probably more disappointed in them in the longterm than members of Guns N’ Roses. Overall though, it was my own decision and thus my own responsibility, and I made it for reasons of emotional and spiritual health. I have not been paid any further monies by GNR since 1991.


I think that both Axl and Goldstein were, at that time, both controlling and greedy. Axl complained all the time that Steven Adler got a percentage of composing royalties. I had recommended that the band have a share-and-share-alike approach to such income -- as did Van Halen, Great White, and others – because my observation was that the primary factors that destroyed bands were women and arguing over differential splits of income, especially mechanical royalties. Hence, I would recommend equal sharing of royalties -- and not women!


In any case with GNR, Axl got more than anyone else, and Adler got less. The other three got the same: less than Axl and more than Adler. Ultimately, the fracture between Axl and Adler was exacerbated by the two factors that always rupture bands -- money and a woman.


METAL SLUDGE: You settled for $3.5 million. How did you come up with that number, and was there a lot of bargaining. Did you start at $5 million or anything like that?


AN: I was emotionally ground and feeling down at that point. My attitude was just give me the check so I don’t have to deal with any of you again. It sounds like a lot, but $3.5 million was much less than I was already due in sales of records, certainly way less. I had an awful lot more money due to me compared to that amount. And by the time you get through with the IRS and with my silent partners, it was not a lot of money, though I never got into it for the money.


I guess I just came up with a number to sell my rights back to the band so I wouldn’t have to chase anyone for commissions. The $3.5 million, I literally just pulled that number out of the air, and it was agreed. We didn’t bother by doing due diligence and doing a forensic accounting. Let’s just say I had more than that in the pipeline, plus there was no sunset clause in our contract, so Guns N’ Roses was getting a bargain, and I was getting a clean break. I didn’t want to chase money and be fighting with people. I didn’t really care.


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It was entirely possible if it was 4 versus 1. Remember, this is before the signing over of the name. The band considered firing Axl when he didn't turn up for that Alice Cooper gig and Duff had to sing It's so Easy.

Miser this was the reason they considered firing Axl.........He did not show up for a gig and was getting more and more undependable and was jeopardizing the bands reputation with the promoters back then which could have effectively killed the band.............It was not some type of power play to "get" Axl.............people who are criticizing Niven for backing this need to understand the reason before they get all twisted......The event Niven describes was back in 87 as they were on a bus tour according to Slash's book

Edited by classicrawker
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I don't think it would be Nivens decision to fire a band member. That's a band decision, not the managers. Imo.

Niven being fired probably made it easier for Axl to get the name. Imo, Doug Goldstein is the reason. He was the manager while the band imploded and did shit. And he was Axls butt buddy.

Slash mentions in his book that there were at least six different occasions that they considered firing Axl. Maybe at the time Appetite was still under the radar,and they considered it but as soon as it took off there was no way they could replace Axl.

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Axl did say part of the reason he put the bit about getting the band name in the contract was because their then manager (Alan) was always speaking in people's ears trying to get him fired.

So, it's Niven's fault that Axl got the name...

Nice, i fucking hate this idiot

>Not possible. Uncle Axl was essential in Guns.

and this

Without Axl, there would be no GNR anymore

Agreed with everything you said.

I was calling Niven a tool in another thread and people took offence and decided to insult me. Truth is he might be responsible for a lot of the shit that went down.

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Axl did say part of the reason he put the bit about getting the band name in the contract was because their then manager (Alan) was always speaking in people's ears trying to get him fired.

So, it's Niven's fault that Axl got the name...

Nice, i fucking hate this idiot

>Not possible. Uncle Axl was essential in

Guns.

and this

Without Axl, there would be no GNR anymore

Agreed with everything you said.

I was calling Niven a tool in another thread and people took offence and decided to insult me. Truth is he might be responsible for a lot of the shit that went down.

No, Axl was the reason a lot of the shit went down

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Axl did say part of the reason he put the bit about getting the band name in the contract was because their then manager (Alan) was always speaking in people's ears trying to get him fired.

So, it's Niven's fault that Axl got the name...

Nice, i fucking hate this idiot

>Not possible. Uncle Axl was essential i

nGuns.

and this

Without Axl, there would be no GNR anymore

Agreed with everything you said.

I was calling Niven a tool in another thread and people took offence and decided to insult me. Truth is he might be responsible for a lot of the shit that went down.

No, Axl was the reason a lot of the shit went down

Axl pumped the needle in Steven's arm and said "shoot it bitch or I'll fucking kill you!"

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Axl did say part of the reason he put the bit about getting the band name in the contract was because their then manager (Alan) was always speaking in people's ears trying to get him fired.

So, it's Niven's fault that Axl got the name...

Nice, i fucking hate this idiot

>Not possible. Uncle Axl was essential i<

/p>n Guns.

and this

Without Axl, there would be no GNR anymore

Agreed with everything you said.

I was calling Niven a tool in another thread and people took offence and decided to insult me. Truth is he might be responsible for a lot of the shit that went down.

No, Axl was the reason a lot of the shit went down

Axl pumped the needle in Steven's arm and said "shoot it bitch or I'll fucking kill you!"

Note I said "a lot" not "everything" so your point is moot as I never said everything was Axl's fault did I? You of all people should be the last person I need to explain this too.

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It was entirely possible if it was 4 versus 1. Remember, this is before the signing over of the name. The band considered firing Axl when he didn't turn up for that Alice Cooper gig and Duff had to sing It's so Easy.

Miser this was the reason they considered firing Axl.........He did not show up for a gig and was getting more and more undependable and was jeopardizing the bands reputation with the promoters back then which could have effectively killed the band.............It was not some type of power play to "get" Axl.............people who are criticizing Niven for backing this need to understand the reason before they get all twisted......The event Niven describes was back in 87 as they were on a bus tour according to Slash's book

Great post. You are exactly right.

Funny to watch the same old Axl nutswingers in here turning this around..............yea, everybody in the world has always been out to get Axl. They completely ignore ALL the crap that Axl did and has done. The band wouldn't have been in that situation if not for Axl's actions. Nor would the band have had the break-up they did. And since Slash/Duff and Izzy left, what has Axl done with the GnR name? One album and touring the old songs.

But sure. It's always the fault of others.........never Axl.

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How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Funny.

Think of all the bands that did make it out of the sunset strip. You are saying that Slash, Duff and Izzy weren't a talented enough group to pick a new singer and make it as far as bands like Skid Row, Motley Crue, Warrant, Ratt, Poison, etc.

And the only reason they were successful with Velvet Revolver was because for the second time in their career they got lucky with a dynamic singer?

And, since VR was more successful than Axl's vision of GnR, are you implying that Scott Weidland is a better frontman than Axl?

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How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Just like Axl would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Slash, Izzy or any of the guys.

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How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Just like Axl would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Slash, Izzy or any of the guys.

BULLSHIT!!!! He would have eventually of started a popular cooking show on The Food Network. :rolleyes:

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I wonder if they did fire Axl, Guns N' Roses would become looked down upon by many like nuGnR or if they would just give up on finding a new singer like with VR.

Hard to say, once they got Izzy and Slash playing together, and Duff had his connections in Seattle, it came together on that road trip. It might have fallen apart if they stayed locally.

No one sang like Axl, that's why they put up with him.

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How can you fire the star factor? How can that be deemed a viable move? Slash was talented with hooks and riffs, but the band would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Axl.

Just like Axl would never have amounted to anything outside of the Strip without Slash, Izzy or any of the guys.

Axl was offered 50K to leave GN'R for an established label act before GN'R had success with Appetite. Were any of the others made such an offer?

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