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9/11 Inside Job?


ManetsBR

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I thought some of you could add something to this discussion. I was wrong.

Ignoring the mounds of well documented evidence against conspiracies that can easily be found all over the internet, do you honestly think all the pictures and video from numerous independent sources capturing the 2nd plane flying into the WTC were all fakes? Better yet, are you saying the thousands of everyday people who saw the 2nd plane with their own eyes are all liars? Come on mate, show some respect for the families of the victims.

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Even if it was staged they still killed a police officer, through explosives out of a car and one of them hid away for 24 hours. Not the actions of innocent men.

Re 9/11 I believe the accusations of loose change are debunked on some websites.

Debunked big time. Loose change is a terrible documentary, it even conflicts with itself multiple times throughout the course of the film.

The biggest hole in the theory of it being an inside job is the motivation. "It was for oil and power." Umm, ok, so you have enough power to fool the entire world*... and you are exercising that power... for more power... err. wait? What?

*except for a few internet detectives that "figured it out" from their laptop while sitting on their sofa.

Edited by DeadSlash
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What do you think?

I think you re sort of daft to think that 9/11 or the Boston terrorism was an inside job.

This is one of the stupidiest thing I've ever read about that topic.

History shows us hundreds of cases of false flag attacks to justify attacks on enemies and to force previously unjustified control measures on the population.

Just to show you some recent cases, from the WW-II:

-The Nazi party burned the Reichstag and let on the ashes a naked comunist. Then, obviously, the comunist was acused of burning the Reichstag, so the Nazi party prohibited every press media related to the comunists, and started to arrest the comunists. Before the false flag attack, people would perhaps don't support the governemnt on such act, but after the attack they were all like "Well, look what the comunists did to our Parliament. It's good that they're being arrested, imagine what else they could do if let free." It's proven that no comunist ever had anything to do with the Reichstag fire, it's proven that the Nazi party did it.

- The USA governement knew about the Pearl Harbor attacks. Thus, there were only old and cheap vessels and ships on the harbor, and only low patent and junior militaries. They not only did nothing to stop it, but made what they could so the lost would be minimal, but enough to justify USA entering the war. Again, proven.

Those are not conspiracy theories anymore. I don't doubt that at the time, anyone who came up with such ideas would be called daft as well. That's how History works, it repeats itself.

I guess it simply is too hard for most of us to believe that the governement would harm it's own people.

I thought some of you could add something to this discussion. I was wrong.

Ignoring the mounds of well documented evidence against conspiracies that can easily be found all over the internet, do you honestly think all the pictures and video from numerous independent sources capturing the 2nd plane flying into the WTC were all fakes? Better yet, are you saying the thousands of everyday people who saw the 2nd plane with their own eyes are all liars? Come on mate, show some respect for the families of the victims.

Are you stupid? Where did I say there were no airplanes? Are you kidding me? :lol:

Edited by ManetsBR
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I thought some of you could add something to this discussion. I was wrong.

Ignoring the mounds of well documented evidence against conspiracies that can easily be found all over the internet, do you honestly think all the pictures and video from numerous independent sources capturing the 2nd plane flying into the WTC were all fakes? Better yet, are you saying the thousands of everyday people who saw the 2nd plane with their own eyes are all liars? Come on mate, show some respect for the families of the victims.

That's one of the holes in Loose change, the terrible documentary "proving" it was an inside job. They show the second plane hitting the tower, from the one angle out of all of the videos capturing it that casts a shadow that appears to be something strapped to the middle of the plane. They spend like 10 minutes detailing how this is totally a missile, and not a shadow yadda yadda. After they painfully explain this is the reason for the explosion, and not the shit ton of fuel on the plan, they freeze the film at the frame where the tip of the plane has impacted the tower and you can see sparks/and explosion starting. They spend another few minutes talking about how impossible it is for the plane tip to cause any kind of explosion, and this somehow proves that a missile is strapped to the plane. What they don't explain is how the explosion we see in the frame they freeze on is supposed to be a result of the "missile" strapped to the plane, when said missile is wholly intact at the middle of the plane nowhere near the explosion.

Edited by DeadSlash
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*except for a few internet detectives that "figured it out" from their laptop while sitting on their sofa.

Actually, on the Boston Explosions, the FBI asked the population on the internet to help them as they could. Can't you understand that everyone in the world uses computers? Including the best experts in the world? This theory is not based on some random thoughts, it's based and justified by construction experts and professionals from all over the world. Do you have more propertie to talk about this issue than them?

Dead Slash, I never said I agreed with everything on the documentary. What I said is that if someone wanted to know more, those documentaries were a good starting point. I even said for people not to believe everything that's shown on Zeitgeist. I later provided the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth link, a valid, respected and very complete source. Have you read their evidences?

Edited by ManetsBR
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*except for a few internet detectives that "figured it out" from their laptop while sitting on their sofa.

Actually, on the Boston Explosions, the FBI asked the population on the internet to help them as they could. Can't you understand that everyone in the world uses computers? Including the best experts in the world? This theory is not based on some random thoughts, it's based and justified by construction experts and professionals from all over the world. Do you have more propertie to talk about this issue than them?

Dead Slash, I never said I agreed with everything on the documentary. What I said is that if someone wanted to know more, those documentaries were a good starting point. I even said for people not to believe everything that's shown on Zeitgeist. I later provided the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth link, a valid, respected and very complete source. Have you read their evidences?

I'm not really debating with you directly, just commenting on how terrible Loose Change is. At this point, people believe it or they don't. I have no intention of swaying your opinion, I just disagree. False Flags are real, I know that. 9/11 isn't one of them, IMO.

Yes. I have read almost everything there is on 9/11, including what you linked to.I still disagree. Anyone can make a compelling case for anything, take global warming for example: You can find absolutely 100% solid proof that is is happening, and 100% solid proof that it isn't. Depends who is producing the material, and what their angle is.

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You're absolutely correct on what you said about anyone being able to make compilations case about anything, and I respect your opinion regarding September 11. May ask, though, why do you think it is not a false flag case?

Edited by ManetsBR
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As some of you who already know me, I get really sensitive about this kind of stuff. For me, I really don't see a difference between 9/11 Truthers and those who deny the Holocaust. If you want to argue over supply-side economics or who's to blame for World War II or whether Reagan really knew about the Iran/Contra affair: fine - have it. But it's beyond ridiculous to argue that 9/11 or Sandy Hook or Boston were inside jobs perpetrated by the government in an effort to pursue some secrete agenda. It's sad, sickening, bordering on the vile.

Anyway, I could argue this stuff until the keys on my keyboard are worn off but really, what's the point? There are far more accomplished people have done a much better job than I ever could. In fact, Rachel Maddow tackled this very issue tonight. For those of you who think that people like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are really looking out for your best interest by spewing such nonsense, please watch this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#51653479

(Highlight: "The Alex Jones of the world and Glenn Becks of the world have always been out there; on the fringe right - eager to decode anything that seems complex or upsetting in the world - to make things very simple for you. To make it very simple so that every story in the world has the same implication. That is, all of your suspicions and prejudices are true. That the world is in fact a very simple place. That people are really out to get you. And that you do understand all of it. And that you can trust no other sources of information about the world other than these gentleman who would please like you to send them another $19.95 for another months subscription since they are the only people who will tell you the real truth.")

For those of you quoting discredited science and bogus engineer/architecture websites, you might want to examine the work done by Popular Science:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

They also took their work and turned it into a book:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/debunking-9-11-myths-david-dunbar/1102179282?ean=9781588165473&itm=1&usri=9781588165473

Finally, there is a site that does an unbelievable job with conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11:

http://www.debunking911.com/

So before you speak like you know what the fuck you're talking about, please read these sites. Don't just watch one crackpot documentary with bogus science and claim it represents the truth. There's enough information out there and people who have debunked almost every bullshit claim and crackpot theory. Know that the people who deny the Holocaust ever happening use the same techniques. The only reason why their crazy theories never caught on was because their garbage was discredited before the rise of the Internet. So if you're happy with being in the same company as Holocaust deniers, well, there's no helping you.

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What do you think?

I think you re sort of daft to think that 9/11 or the Boston terrorism was an inside job.

This is one of the stupidiest thing I've ever read about that topic.

History shows us hundreds of cases of false flag attacks to justify attacks on enemies and to force previously unjustified control measures on the population.

Just to show you some recent cases, from the WW-II:

-The Nazi party burned the Reichstag and let on the ashes a naked comunist. Then, obviously, the comunist was acused of burning the Reichstag, so the Nazi party prohibited every press media related to the comunists, and started to arrest the comunists. Before the false flag attack, people would perhaps don't support the governemnt on such act, but after the attack they were all like "Well, look what the comunists did to our Parliament. It's good that they're being arrested, imagine what else they could do if let free." It's proven that no comunist ever had anything to do with the Reichstag fire, it's proven that the Nazi party did it.

- The USA governement knew about the Pearl Harbor attacks. Thus, there were only old and cheap vessels and ships on the harbor, and only low patent and junior militaries. They not only did nothing to stop it, but made what they could so the lost would be minimal, but enough to justify USA entering the war. Again, proven.

Those are not conspiracy theories anymore. I don't doubt that at the time, anyone who came up with such ideas would be called daft as well. That's how History works, it repeats itself.

I guess it simply is too hard for most of us to believe that the governement would harm it's own people.

How nice of you to lump the US government in with the Nazis. :lol:

I'll take your word for Reichstag, as I don't know much about it but I do know how evil the Nazis were so it wouldn't surprise me if what you said was true.

You are DEAD WRONG about Pearl Harbor. Honest question, where exactly have you heard these things that you claim to be true? Is it taught in European schools?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1889/did-roosevelt-know-in-advance-about-the-attack-on-pearl-harbor-yet-say-nothing

One example from the above link:

Conspiracy theorist belief regarding motive: Without the Japanese attack, America would never have declared war upon Japan.

Response: Not true. Most people point to the August 1941 resolution to keep draftees on duty for more than twelve months, a measure that passed by the narrowest of margins, 203-202. But antiwar sentiment was waning quickly, especially in the wake of German U-boat attacks upon American vessels. In September, a poll showed 67 percent of the American public felt the United States should risk war rather than allow Japan to grow more powerful; 70 percent felt the United States should risk war with Germany. Many in Roosevelt's cabinet and the press felt that the President would have no difficulty in getting a declaration of war against Japan following the breakdown in peace negotiations in late November. But it was Roosevelt who refused to push the issue, instead waiting for Japan to make the first move.

In order to believe that Roosevelt knew about the coming Pearl Harbor attack but kept mum, you have to believe he had better information than any of his subordinates in the government or the military--information that since has been destroyed, since no one has been able to find it. Moreover, you have to believe that Roosevelt was willing to sacrifice most of the Pacific fleet, and possibly one of the most important American naval bases in the Pacific, probably crippling American operations against Japan for the next two years (by which time the Japanese would likely have taken over the Pacific and begun operations against the American West Coast) in order to gain public support for a measure the public already supported by a two-to-one margin. You also have to believe that Roosevelt--who had been Assistant Secretary of the Navy, who always claimed that if he hadn't gotten into politics he would have liked to have been an admiral, whose first campaign song for President was "Anchors Aweigh" (before being replaced by the more appropriate and upbeat "Happy Days Are Here Again")--would countenance the deaths of thousands of U.S. sailors for a few extra votes in Congress--again, for a measure that many observers felt would pass easily.

If you're willing to believe that, I've got some great information on the Vince Foster murder I'm willing to sell you.

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Are you stupid? Where did I say there were no airplanes? Are you kidding me? :lol:

Probably the most common theory from the 9/11 conspiracy whackjobs is that the WTC wasn't hit by planes, but by US missiles.

Okay, so what's your angle? Was it government-hired kamikazes that piloted the planes? Or were the pilots legit but the hijackers were secret FBI agents? Were all the passengers in on it too? Please don't try to say none of the passengers died or some bullshit theory like that, I knew a couple people that were on one of the planes.

And while you're at it, do you think the government's "motive" was to invade Afghanistan and Iraq or was there some other sinister motivation? Of course if justifying a war was their motivation, they sure as hell didn't need to take down BOTH towers at a time when it would result in thousands of casualties. Why not take down just one tower? Why not do it late at night or on the weekend to keep casualties to a minimum? Wouldn't it have been "cleaner" with less witnesses and coverage if it had happened in darkness?

And BTW, why the hell would the government attack or blow up their own building? Tell me, why the hell would they crash a plane (or bomb, if that's what you think) into the Pentagon? And why have a 4th plane? Seriously, don't you think if there was just one target (WTC1 or WTC2 or the Pentagon or whatever) that would have been sufficient cause for them to invade Afghanistan?

There's a complete lack of logic on your end. I don't know a thing about you, if you were like 10 years old or younger when 9/11 happened then I can somewhat understand why you'd have these questions and doubts now. But if you're old enough to remember firsthand when it happened, it's incomprehensible that you still don't know all the facts nearly 12 years later. This stuff you're stirring has been talked about ad nauseum for more than a decade and proven false countless times, how is it possible you still have doubts?

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Soulmonster and Downzy both agreeing with me on the same subject????? icon_omg.gif

Holy crap ... it's a good time for me to call it a night!!!

runaway.gif

what i love about the truthers is that their are dozens upon dozens of "theories" of why it was an "inside job" and each little theory has its own stuff to "prove" it, but they all know it is the truth damn it!

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I'm odd man out here, I think 9/11 truthers are wrong, but the Pearl Harbor thing is hard to not believe for me.

I read a lot on conspiracy theories, I love them. I love to debunk them. I like them so much because with a movie, or a book, you have to suspend you disbelief. I am constantly watching a movie and getting angry at giant plot holes. They irritate me.

A good conspiracy theory can not have plot holes, or it gets torn apart. Usually the end result is conspiracy theories make for a better story, even if it is for entertainment purposes only.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=408

Edited by DeadSlash
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I hope someday September 11th becomes no different than December 7th. Sure it was infamy for a while, eventually people finally just shut the fuck up. I wonder how long it takes til people shut up? I think South Park said 22.3 years.

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Guest Len B'stard

There's nothing worth adding, thousands of people die in horrific circumstances and a whole bunch of people have got nothing better to do that play Cluedo over their graves :shrugs:

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Guest Len B'stard

The background to it is worth being aware of though. If you have people in the US taking flying lessons in only how to take off not land. Although i think they trained in Birmingham.

Birmingham, the home all of true evil :lol:

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