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Demo list with details

Creepshow2

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DieselDaisy LEGEND

DieselDaisy

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@DieselDaisy:

the "Shadow of your love" (from official "live and let die" B-side with Axl screaming "Wake up its time to play" in the beginning) is the studio demo from Sound City 6/1986.

''Produced by Guns N' Roses. Mixed by Hanspetter Heuber and Alan Niven'' (from the Live and Let Die CD single): this version has to be Pasha (c. August '86), surely, as this is the exact same credit which accompanies Live Like A Suicide? If the demo was recorded at Sound City (June '86) it would have presumably carried a credit for 'Manny Charlton', not, Heuber/Niven. Also, Alan Niven had not appeared yet when Guns N' Roses where recording at Sound City in June '86.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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Creepshow2 Junior

Creepshow2

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Were Heuber and Niven present for the rest of the Pasha demos after Spencer Proffer left or did the band do it all on their own and just have them mix the rest of the tracks when they were done? Did Heuber and Niven mix only the tracks after Sweet Child O' Mine and Nightrain and just leave those two the way Proffer had them?

Also, Mr. Brownstone and Don't Cry have a different quality than the rest (besides the 2 Proffer tracks) so were they mixed as well by Heuber and Niven or just left the way they are?

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recklessroad GOD

recklessroad

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Proffer was only involved with the SCOM and Nightrain. Part of the deal was that the band could use the studio to make their EP. Alan was not around yet so he was not their when they recorded it. The band worked with the engineer to record the other songs. I forgot his name.

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DieselDaisy LEGEND

DieselDaisy

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''My first conversation with Ax was at Pasha studios, where they were cutting demos. He was separate from the rest of the band, sitting alone in the engineer's workshop messing with electronics.''

- Alan Niven,

http://archive.classicrockmagazine.com/view/march-2009/33/alan-niven-was-the-sixth-silent-member-of-gnr-says.

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Crash Diet FRONTMAN

Crash Diet

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what a great thread



thanks, Marc!!

@DieselDaisy:

the "Shadow of your love" (from official "live and let die" B-side with Axl screaming "Wake up its time to play" in the beginning) is the studio demo from Sound City 6/1986.

all other official "Shadow of your love" versions are from Pasha session 8(?)-9/1986 studio + fake crowd noise (like all other songs on "Live like a suicide")

or real studio (1984) from "Hollywood Rose - The Roots of GN'R"-CD (released in 2004).

also there is an unofficial version from the Pasha session not having the fake crowd noise.

what we are really missing is the "Shadow of your love"-studio demo from Mike Clink....Slash and Axl were provenly blown away by that version (check in "Reckless Road"-book), however they've never released it and it never got out of the vaults, too bad...

i think its a great pure short nice fast hard rock song.....something i'm more and more missing the older the Guns became.

The Mike Clink one is still on my Bucket list. I know Mike still has it and one days I will get to hear it. I see Mike at least 2 times a year.

I REALY REALLY wanted to hear that SOYL version (one of my favorite "forgotten" song)

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Lim666 Senior

Lim666

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@DieselDaisy:

the "Shadow of your love" (from official "live and let die" B-side with Axl screaming "Wake up its time to play" in the beginning) is the studio demo from Sound City 6/1986.

''Produced by Guns N' Roses. Mixed by Hanspetter Heuber and Alan Niven'' (from the Live and Let Die CD single): this version has to be Pasha (c. August '86), surely, as this is the exact same credit which accompanies Live Like A Suicide? If the demo was recorded at Sound City (June '86) it would have presumably carried a credit for 'Manny Charlton', not, Heuber/Niven. Also, Alan Niven had not appeared yet when Guns N' Roses where recording at Sound City in June '86.

the credits are wrong! the SOYL from LALD (B-Side) is from Sound City NOT Pasha.

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Creepshow2 Junior

Creepshow2

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I just bought the tracks heartbreak (Hollywood Rocks! (Vinyl Edition) & nice boys (American '80s Hair Metal) off of iTunes... does anyone know where these come from?

Also, each of these albums also had Hollywood rose tracks (anything goes & reckless life). Are they just duplicates from the offical release (roots of GNR)?

IMO, the iTunes Nice Boys doesn't sound like an original demo. It sound sped up during certain parts.

They came from Sound the City Demos

Marc, are you referring to the Heartbreak Hotel and Nice Boys demos? Where would they fit into the list in Reckless Road? Or are they the other takes that you didn't list?

Would these be Heartbreak Hotel take 1 and Nice Boys take 1 or 2?

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Lim666 Senior

Lim666

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I do not know - what is the evidence for this? (although it wouldn't be the first time, GN'R got their credits wrong case-in-point, Democracy). And if you are correct, is Manny Charlton getting shafted on royalties?

"Shadow of your Love" ("Wake Up its time to play")-demo is from Sound City for these reasons:

- Marc said so!

- its on many bootlegs which came out from Sound City in about the same chronical order like the demo list in "Reckless Road"

- it sounds like a "simple" 2-track demo just like the other Sound City demo songs

- the Pasha version "Shadow of your love" made it fake live on the japanese release "Live from the jungle", a version without the crowd got out aswell....and it just sounds too different compared to Sound City!

all indizes listed above show that the credits from SOYL (LALD B-side) are wrong. there could be a couple of reasons for it. the theory about Manny getting shafted out on royalities is some risky (and just could be wrong!) but interesrting.

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DieselDaisy LEGEND

DieselDaisy

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Yes, I like your logic. Thanks for the correction. Did the bootlegs come out before the Live And Let Die CD single (which I think was, 1991)?

Regarding the royalties, it depends on whether the mix up was a mere typo or involved a much bigger mix-up at publication level (and therefore effecting, where ASCAP send the royalties). If the former, presumably Charlton gained royalties regardless of what it says on the sleeve. If the latter, Heuber/Niven could have gained royalties instead of Charlton. Charlton may not even be aware that a demo he recorded was officially released! Would not do much now as the cd single is discontinued but it may have generated a fair bit of cash in the early '90s.

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Lim666 Senior

Lim666

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yes, many of the bootlegs with (most of) the Sound City demos all came up before the UYI-releases = before 9/1991. i got them before myself, too.

yes, your logic seems to be right about Manny. i'd agree he might not have been made aware about the LALD-single release, it was just a B-side after all and SOYL never was a big hit for the public or is a well known song. add that it came from the GN'R vault's "gen1"-tape (Marc said so aswell), not from the Manny master reels....maybe that makes a difference aswell?

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DieselDaisy LEGEND

DieselDaisy

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I have so much of this stuff myself but it is all stuffed away in the attic on LPs and cassettes. I have never even contemplated, sorting it all out. Thanks to this thread (creepshow's list, comments by others) it has saved me a lot of work. Soon I will listen to it all.

So what are the major mysteries? I have...

- the drum machine demos. Boots say, 'Illusion era', all our instincts say, 'mid-80s hell house'. But, nobody knows for certain?

- Clink version of SOYL. When was this session? Where was this session? Presumably it falls, circa August/Sept 1986, as this was when their Pasha period ended and pre-production on Appetite began. Was it just an one off session or did Clink visit Pasha? I would like to know the details of it.

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Creepshow2 Junior

Creepshow2

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I know I asked this before but it got lost in all the chaos. Regarding Sound City, my list seemed complete as far as the list in Reckless Road but now that these other 2 songs have been discovered, Heartbreak Hotel and Nice Boys...

Does anyone know for sure if they're from Sound City? And if they are, they would have to be the other takes (Heartbreak Hotel take 1 and Nice Boys take 1 or 2, since 3 is on the list already), correct?

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workingmanblues Newbie

workingmanblues

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Thanks for all the info guys/gals. One question I have is where can I find these booted tracks in cd lossless quality? I have this silver cd boot called November Rain and it has rehearsal/studio performances. Given the info here, it appears it's part of the the sound city stuff.

I know quality hasn't been discussed but perhaps we could source these tracks/sessions in terms of best sounding boot? I have checked the waveform of the tracks on this November Rain boot and they leave a lot to be desired. Also the only pic I can find on the internet is a vinyl version of it with a slightly differnt track list. http://www.casinobillionaire.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/guns-n-roses-november-rain-bootleg.jpg

Edited by workingmanblues
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uruguns DEMI-GOD

uruguns

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Yes thats right.

Marc, why the Pasha demos (scom, for instance) sound so bad? I mean, Rapidfire demos are older and sound crystal clear.

My guess is that the SCOM demo publicly available on the internet comes from a very bad source -like a compact cassette-, so there must be higher quality versions somewhere. What do you say?

Edited by uruguns
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