Michael Jackson went 60 days without real sleep

[Crash Diet]

This is insane!
Could he died sooner or later because of this?

Los Angeles (CNN) -- Michael Jackson died while preparing to set a world record for the most successful concert run, but he unknowingly set another record that led to his death.
Jackson may be the only human ever to go two months without REM -- rapid eye movement -- sleep, which is vital to keep the brain and body alive. The 60 nights of propofol infusions Dr. Conrad Murray said he gave Jackson to treat his insomnia is something a sleep expert says no one had ever undergone.
"The symptoms that Mr. Jackson was exhibiting were consistent with what someone might expect to see of someone suffering from total sleep deprivation over a chronic period," Dr. Charles Czeisler, a Harvard Medical School sleep expert, testified Friday at the wrongful-death trial of concert promoter AEG LIve.
The symptoms documented by e-mails among show producers and testimony from his chef, hairstylist and choreographers included his inability to do standard dances or remember words to songs he sang for decades, paranoia, talking to himself and hearing voices, and severe weight loss, Czeisler said.
"I believe that that constellation of symptoms was more probably than not induced by total sleep deprivation over a chronic period," he testified.

Propofol disrupts the normal sleep cycle and offers no REM sleep, yet it leaves a patient feeling refreshed as if they had experienced genuine sleep, according to Czeisler.
If the singer had not died on June 25, 2009, of an overdose of the surgical anesthetic, the lack of REM sleep may have taken his life within days anyway, according Czeisler's testimony Friday.
Lab rats die after five weeks of getting no REM sleep, he said. It was never tried on a human until Murray gave Jackson nightly propofol infusions for two months.
Translating that to a human, Czeisler estimated, Jackson would have died before his 80th day of propofol infusions. Murray told police he had given it to him for 60 nights before trying to wean him off it on June 22, 2009 -- three days before his death.

Full article here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/21/showbiz/jackson-death-trial/index.html

[Guest Len B'stard]

And took think Keith Richards could only manage 5, fuckin' lightweight

[Towelie]

Michael was fucked the second he signed on the dotted line to do that tour.

The guy needed to get clean, enter into rehab to build himself back up again and get away from the doctor feelgoods. Ever since the stress of his criminal trial in 2005 he'd become severely underweight and he was alarmingly emaciated towards the end, probably due to the stress of such an enormous comeback and the insomnia.

Such a fucking waste...

Edited June 22, 2013 by Towelie

[Guest Len B'stard]

Waste? I dunno, he did leave a great legacy behind and it's not like his work was getting better and better. Waste as in human life or whatever, not tryna be cold or anything but waste in terms of what he had to offer musically from there on? I'm not so sure. Last halfway decent shit he did was around the time of History...or Dangerous if i'm feeling un-generous.

[Towelie]

In terms of pop music, he was pretty much untouchable from 1979-1997. Only his last album Invincible (2001) was lacklustre.

I think he had more to offer, but his demons won out and resulted in him pissing away the last decade of his life, hence why I said it was a waste...

Edited June 22, 2013 by Towelie

[DirtyDeeds]

I went three months of getting 2 hours sleep per night, with an occasional no sleep thrown in there, but I wasn't on any drugs. I don't know this for sure, but I'm pretty certain the body goes into like an emergency REM cycle a lot quicker than it normally would in that case (without drugs), so I'm pretty sure I got some minimal REM sleep.

Still, I got pretty sick.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Whatcha go and do that for?

[DirtyDeeds]

Whatcha go and do that for?

Ridiculous over-demands at work while also going to school full time, plus another part time job.

It sucked. I would never do it again. I'm pretty worthless without at least somewhat adequate sleep anyway.

[Iron MikeyJ]

i agree lenny, his last "alive" album wasnt very good. it had its moments, but the mj from off the wall, thriller, and bad seemed long gone. I was a huge mj fan growing up, but even I had to "check out". parting from quincy jones proved to be a mistake imo. mj needed a musical partner. sure dangerous and history were pretty good without quincy, but each album seemed worse than the one before it.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think a lot of his problem was there is only so long that you can like, remove yourself from contemporary culture and still be in touch enough to be able to give decent offerings that keep up with the times. I mean it's clear MJ was someone that followed trends very closely as well as defining certain trends, whether it's his disco phase or New Jack Swing allegiances, thats not to criticise, it was his forte and he did it very well but he weren't someone like James Brown who sort of existed in a bubble and had enough muscle behind his thing that he could get away with forever being James Brown.

I just think that after the early 90s Jacko became so remote from anything that anything had anything to do with that he just sort of...seemed like someone running to catch up. I mean Irv Gotti, seriously?!?! Jacko was better than that.

[Towelie]

I think a lot of his problem was there is only so long that you can like, remove yourself from contemporary culture and still be in touch enough to be able to give decent offerings that keep up with the times. I mean it's clear MJ was someone that followed trends very closely as well as defining certain trends, whether it's his disco phase or New Jack Swing allegiances, thats not to criticise, it was his forte and he did it very well but he weren't someone like James Brown who sort of existed in a bubble and had enough muscle behind his thing that he could get away with forever being James Brown.

I just think that after the early 90s Jacko became so remote from anything that anything had anything to do with that he just sort of...seemed like someone running to catch up. I mean Irv Gotti, seriously?!?! Jacko was better than that.

HIStory and Blood On The Dancefloor are considered by most MJ fans to be the last of his golden-era albums. There's some great, really artistic and truly underrated songs on those albums.

Invincible was the record companies cynical attempt at getting MJ to fit in with the new crop of pop artists that emerged in the late 90s/new millenium. Fans saw through it and MJ seemed largely dis-interested and uninspired.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Towelie

[Iron MikeyJ]

i agree

history and blood on the dance floor are pretty good albums. I especially like the song blood on the dance floor. when it came out it reminded me of smooth criminal, which is a good thing. and from history; earth song, they dont care about us, and cometogether are my 3 favs. not a big fan of scream though, it just never really did it for me.

[Johnny Drama]

It was a waste Fir the reason that I'd he had pulled off them 50 dates it would have been the get fucked of all get fuckeds to the haters.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Nothing would've washed away the nonce thing for him.

[bacardimayne]

Waste? I dunno, he did leave a great legacy behind and it's not like his work was getting better and better. Waste as in human life or whatever, not tryna be cold or anything but waste in terms of what he had to offer musically from there on? I'm not so sure. Last halfway decent shit he did was around the time of History...or Dangerous if i'm feeling un-generous.

So... the last halfway decent shit he did was one full album before his last? Oh no, he might've never recovered from one bad album!

Not to mention, that run of shows would have been absolutely huge if they had happened.

[Use Your Delusion 1]

Little Susie from HIStory is amazing

[Val22]

I don't know how MJ did it. If I have trouble sleeping one night I go nuts!

It saddens me that no one tried to get help for him. A lot of people have trouble sleeping especially musicians because they do most of their shows at night and it's hard to sleep during the day. Everyone knows MJ was working on his new show and spent many many hours rehearsing because he wanted everything to be perfect. If you need drugs to stay awake and drugs to sleep and keep taking more and more and stronger ones, I don't understand why the people who are supposed to care for you don't help you.

How many more talents have to die before someone says these doctors are nuts!

Marilyn Monroe had a doctor who felt you needed a personal relationship with your patient to treat them properly. Well, we all know that's bullshit now, but bottom line was this doctor probably gave her any drug she wanted because she too had trouble sleeping and she's was only in her 30's. It's crazy to think there are these doctors out there who think they are helping their patients but they are not. They are just enabling them and not treating their illness and then they die.

Even if their doctors are held accountable, they're still dead.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Waste? I dunno, he did leave a great legacy behind and it's not like his work was getting better and better. Waste as in human life or whatever, not tryna be cold or anything but waste in terms of what he had to offer musically from there on? I'm not so sure. Last halfway decent shit he did was around the time of History...or Dangerous if i'm feeling un-generous.

So... the last halfway decent shit he did was one full album before his last? Oh no, he might've never recovered from one bad album!

Not to mention, that run of shows would have been absolutely huge if they had happened.

Well bearing in mind how much time had elapsed and my post being centred around the idea of him following trends and becoming more and more remote from what was going on at the time and he hadn't been halfway decent (keyword, halfway) since 1992 then its reasonable to suggest that he was on a downslide, is it not?

Also, as previously mentioned, the nonce thing figures highly.

Loads of people can do a run of very successful shows, look at The Stone Roses, it don't really mean they're back where they were, you've gotta release some decent music, The Stones are on an amazing run of shows right now too, don't mean to say it means they are back at their peak.

Edited June 24, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Towelie]

he hadn't been halfway decent (keyword, halfway) since 1992 then its reasonable to suggest that he was on a downslide, is it not?

Bullshit. It may not be one of his most celebrated albums by the general public, but HIStory is widely considered by most hardcore MJ fans to be one of his best albums, the same way UYI albums are rated so highly by the GNR fanbase. Songs like They Don't Care About Us, Little Susie, Stranger In Moscow, Earth Song, History are more than "halfway decent" - they stand up amongst his very best work. That was 1995.

The five new tracks released in 1997 on Blood On The Dancefloor were also top drawer stuff.

It is not true that he was chasing trends after 92. Whilst his contemporaries (Prince, Madonna) spent the mid to late 90s doing lukewarm R&B drivel, MJ was still very much marching to the beat of his own drum.

It was only with his last album that he started to sound as if he was playing catch up.

[Guest Len B'stard]

he hadn't been halfway decent (keyword, halfway) since 1992 then its reasonable to suggest that he was on a downslide, is it not?

Bullshit. It may not be one of his most celebrated albums by the general public, but HIStory is widely considered by most hardcore MJ fans to be one of his best albums, the same way UYI albums are rated so highly by the GNR fanbase. Songs like They Don't Care About Us, Little Susie, Stranger In Moscow, Earth Song, History are more than "halfway decent" - they stand up amongst his very best work. That was 1995.

The five new tracks released in 1997 on Blood On The Dancefloor were also top drawer stuff.

It is not true that he was chasing trends after 92. Whilst his contemporaries (Prince, Madonna) spent the mid to late 90s doing lukewarm R&B drivel, MJ was still very much marching to the beat of his own drum.

It was only with his last album that he started to sound as if he was playing catch up.

I think he was always chasing trends...he figured highly in their evolution in doing so so its not a criticism. And yeah, 'hardcore fans thought it was among his best', says it all really. And as far as marching to the beat of his own drum, please, Jacko was highly derivative and always was. Again, thats not an insult, he was exceptional at what he did but lets be real here.

Edited June 24, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Towelie]

Says it all? Says what exactly? Its hardly as if the album was only appreciated by the hardcore fanbase. The album is in the top 100 selling albums of all time, along with Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous. It remains the biggest selling double album of all time and contains the biggest selling single of his career.

Your claim that he is highly derivative is unfounded and I'm guessing based on a limited knowledge of his music. Little Susie is a murder ballad about a tortured little girl complete with a three minute gregorian chant chamber choir intro. What exactly is that derivative of?

[Guest Len B'stard]

Says exactly what it says based on your choosing those words, History sold yes but then its a bit disingenuous cuz it weren't all new music, was it? If im not mistaken it had a lot of old matierial, something of a greatest hits and with an artist on Jackos level that was always gonna sell.

And how is he derivative? Starts off Motown, then discos big and on the arse end of it you get off the wall, thriller and bad are very much pop music of their time with elements of funk etc, then he's out for 4 years and new jack swing gets big and wa-hey, dangerous has teddy riley producing to get him on that gravy train, then after History you got Invincible and its like, lets call Irv Gotti, MJ and Murder Inc, really?

And aside from all that, he's just basically a take on James Brown, his vocal style is just a total rip off of James Brown, again, not an insult, he's sort of an archetype but it is what it is, his dancing, his staccato vocal stype with the hehs and the dahs and the heeeee's, i mean, am i making all of this up?

Again, its not an insult to say he's derivative, some of my favorite artistd are, it ain't no sin.

[Towelie]

Yes his vocal stylings were inspired by James Brown and yes he adapted his sound to suit current music trends. Doesn't mean everything he ever did was highly derivative. The significance of being the first black man to be played on MTV by embracing rock music was a huge feat, not only for MJ, but for pop culture in general. You didn't see Lionel Ritchie getting Eddie Van Halen to feature on his music. It may seem like a small thing now, but in 1982 it was a big fucking deal and it opened a lot of doors.

The significance of self-funding a multi-million dollar 12 minute music video for Thriller is something nobody else had done before, even his record label were against it, hence why the money came out of his pocket. It changed the music industry forever. You cannot deny that.

The bulk of HIStory's sale figures came after the massive success of Scream and You Are Not Alone (the two highest debuting singles in Billboard history) and Earth Song (the best selling single of his entire career). That is a fact. If anything, the Greatest Hits disc hindered the album sales, as the inclusion of a bonus disc drove the price up to a costly £25.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Towelie

[dalsh327]

This is insane!

Could he died sooner or later because of this?

Los Angeles (CNN) -- Michael Jackson died while preparing to set a world record for the most successful concert run, but he unknowingly set another record that led to his death.

Jackson may be the only human ever to go two months without REM -- rapid eye movement -- sleep, which is vital to keep the brain and body alive. The 60 nights of propofol infusions Dr. Conrad Murray said he gave Jackson to treat his insomnia is something a sleep expert says no one had ever undergone.

"The symptoms that Mr. Jackson was exhibiting were consistent with what someone might expect to see of someone suffering from total sleep deprivation over a chronic period," Dr. Charles Czeisler, a Harvard Medical School sleep expert, testified Friday at the wrongful-death trial of concert promoter AEG LIve.

The symptoms documented by e-mails among show producers and testimony from his chef, hairstylist and choreographers included his inability to do standard dances or remember words to songs he sang for decades, paranoia, talking to himself and hearing voices, and severe weight loss, Czeisler said.

"I believe that that constellation of symptoms was more probably than not induced by total sleep deprivation over a chronic period," he testified.

Propofol disrupts the normal sleep cycle and offers no REM sleep, yet it leaves a patient feeling refreshed as if they had experienced genuine sleep, according to Czeisler.

If the singer had not died on June 25, 2009, of an overdose of the surgical anesthetic, the lack of REM sleep may have taken his life within days anyway, according Czeisler's testimony Friday.

Lab rats die after five weeks of getting no REM sleep, he said. It was never tried on a human until Murray gave Jackson nightly propofol infusions for two months.

Translating that to a human, Czeisler estimated, Jackson would have died before his 80th day of propofol infusions. Murray told police he had given it to him for 60 nights before trying to wean him off it on June 22, 2009 -- three days before his death.

Full article here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/21/showbiz/jackson-death-trial/index.html

I don't see it as insane as much as someone who got themselves in over their head. He was in no shape to perform.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Yes his vocal stylings were inspired by James Brown and yes he adapted his sound to suit current music trends. Doesn't mean everything he ever did was highly derivative. The significance of being the first black man to be played on MTV by embracing rock music was a huge feat, not only for MJ, but for pop culture in general. You didn't see Lionel Ritchie getting Eddie Van Halen to feature on his music. It may seem like a small thing now, but in 1982 it was a big fucking deal and it opened a lot of doors.

The significance of self-funding a multi-million dollar 12 minute music video for Thriller is something nobody else had done before, even his record label were against it, hence why the money came out of his pocket. It changed the music industry forever. You cannot deny that.

The bulk of HIStory's sale figures came after the massive success of Scream and You Are Not Alone (the two highest debuting singles in Billboard history) and Earth Song (the best selling single of his entire career). That is a fact. If anything, the Greatest Hits disc hindered the album sales, as the inclusion of a bonus disc drove the price up to a costly £25.

All of the above is true but its got nothing to do with the question you asked of me and the answer i gave, you're altering the terms of the discussion by saying 'everything he ever did wasn't derivative', i never said everything he ever did, i just said that he was for the reasons i outlined which you've agreed were accurate, that was the basis of my point.

Also, its not really a feat if you have to embrace rock music to get accepted, its a feat when you get it on your own terms, at least thats my thinking.

And there were many precursors to the 13 minute music video thing.

Edited June 24, 2013 by sugaraylen