PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: But what is the purpose of that? You are reducing music to a mere technicality? You are (to utilise British scholarly usage) turning a humanity into a science! Because that is the ultimate measure of a mathematically finite ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, PappyTron said: That's because boxing isn't based on mathematics and set notes, like music is. Ali IS a better boxer than Audley Harrison, in every quantifiable way, the same way that Shawn Lane IS a better guitarist in every quantifiable way than Hendrix; more accurate, better technique, faster, can play more complex arrangements. What else is there other than personal emotion, in which case Audley may well be the greatest boxer of all time. But the structure of music is mathematical but the power of it is not, the power is to do with the ability to convey emotion, trust me, i know, I'm listening to Fire by Jimi Hendrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: Because that is the ultimate measure of a mathematically finite ability. Then Jimi is not your chap for music. Enjoy your cold hearted technicians in the same way you dismiss English all-rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Just now, Len B'stard said: But the structure of music is mathematical but the power of it is not, the power is to do with the ability to convey emotion, trust me, i know, I'm listening to Fire by Jimi Hendrix Then one can say that Snake-Pit is a better guitarist than Hendrix because he conveys, for me at least, more raw and unbridled emotion; a true look at the gritty underbelly of Thornton Heath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: Then Jimi is not your chap for music. Enjoy your cold hearted technicians in the same way you dismiss English all-rounder. Truth be told, such is the strength of your yearning for the past I'm surprised that your favourite guitarist doesn't actually play on a lute. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: This is your bible, http://www.guitars101.com/forums/f145/jimi-hendrix-box-of-gypsys-sbd-aud-flac-147527.html Or the Royal Albert film (which has been stuck in litigation for forty years!). I have had the complete BoG Fillmore concerts for years now and they are awesome. They are my #1 Hot Tub Time Machine concerts if I could go back in time to see one concert(s). I also highly recommend the official BoG documentary which includes live concert video from the Fillmore shows which is stunning for me at least....... There is a decent bootleg video of one of the Royal Albert shows. Edited May 21, 2016 by classicrawker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, PappyTron said: Hendrix was good. Very good. Awesome, even, but he was not at a level that other guitarists haven't matched and exceeded. That is what I mean when I say that he's overrated, because people put him in a category of one as if nobody else can play faster or more complex songs etc. Nobody else can play as good. At least, no one ever did. Not to be a cunt, but maybe you just don't get it. It's not about faster or more complex. His guitar playing was one of a kind and his musical ideas could have only came from his brain, fingers, whatever. It's been so many years since he died, yet there is no one as innovative on guitar or even making music on that level. Don't think it's gonna happen again. And it's not like it's just Jimi. Who came after Bob Marley? or even 2Pac which had an average flow but is one of my favorite rappers. No one after The Beatles as well. It's not about technique, it's what you musically express and say. Jimi is not overrated at all. Someone's gotta be the best (if you like to compare) and he's still undefeated as the best guitar player that ever lived. Edited May 21, 2016 by Rovim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 29 minutes ago, Rovim said: Nobody else can play as good. At least, no one ever did. Not to be a cunt, but maybe you just don't get it. It's not about faster or more complex. His guitar playing was one of a kind and his musical ideas could have only come from his brain, fingers, whatever. It's been so many years since he died, yet there is no one as innovative on guitar or even making music on that level. Don't think it's gonna happen again. And it's not like it's just Jimi. Who came after Bob Marley? or even 2Pac which had an average flow but is one of my favorite rappers. No one after The Beatles as well. It's not about technique, it's what you musically express and say. Jimi is not overrated at all. Someone's gotta be the best (if you like to compare) and he's still undefeated as the best guitar player that ever lived. Rovim, you know that I love ya, but that is a bunch of drek. Defining who is the best is all about who has the best technique, who can play the most complex arrangements, who can play the fastest, who can play the cleanest etc, and Hendrix doesn't come out on top in any of those categories. I mentioned him before as a comparison, but Shawn Lane was capable of playing arrangements that Jimi couldn't hope to play, and at a much faster speed and with better technique and more accurately; how can anyone objectively say that Hendrix was better at playing the guitar? What people here are saying, like I said with Daisy, is that they prefer Hendrix's playing to XYZ guitarist, but that doesn't make him a better guitarist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, PappyTron said: Rovim, you know that I love ya, but that is a bunch of drek. Defining who is the best is all about who has the best technique, who can play the most complex arrangements, who can play the fastest, who can play the cleanest etc, and Hendrix doesn't come out on top in any of those categories. I mentioned him before as a comparison, but Shawn Lane was capable of playing arrangements that Jimi couldn't hope to play, and at a much faster speed and with better technique and more accurately; how can anyone objectively say that Hendrix was better at playing the guitar? What people here are saying, like I said with Daisy, is that they prefer Hendrix's playing to XYZ guitarist, but that doesn't make him a better guitarist. I disagree, but I love you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanGenie Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Being a technical good guitatist is a bit like bodybuilding. You work every day and instead of more muscle you'll get faster. That itself to me has no musical value. What have so many technical great players achieved? Most people dont know their songs because they suck. Im not the worlds biggest Jimi Fan but he wrote some standards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 6 hours ago, PappyTron said: Truth be told, such is the strength of your yearning for the past I'm surprised that your favourite guitarist doesn't actually play on a lute. This is merely a myth propagated by Soul Monster. Listen, if Jimi wanted to outplay those LA speedfreaks he could do it with barely five minutes of preparation. But there is nothing there. It Is a vacuous exercise. Bloody hell, sit me down with a bunch of exercises and give me three weeks and I can probably do that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 7 hours ago, PappyTron said: Then one can say that Snake-Pit is a better guitarist than Hendrix because he conveys, for me at least, more raw and unbridled emotion; a true look at the gritty underbelly of Thornton Heath. When was that ever in dispute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 John McDermott said if the Dallas 1970 video surfaces, they'll release the concert and do a documentary about it. Overall, Experience Hendrix is going to be the legacy with musicians getting together and taking part in those tours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Never really got into any of his albums fully. I just think he's in a different head space, so it's a complete out of body experience but when you get back it's hard to say what it was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 16 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: Nobody has ever played guitar as good as Hendrix. In rock, on electric maybe. Seriously doubt Jimi could pull off Concierto De Aranjuez. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanGenie Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 My favorite Jimi album is Axis Bold As Love. The solo of Bold As Love is the shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: This is merely a myth propagated by Soul Monster. Listen, if Jimi wanted to outplay those LA speedfreaks he could do it with barely five minutes of preparation. But there is nothing there. It Is a vacuous exercise. Bloody hell, sit me down with a bunch of exercises and give me three weeks and I can probably do that stuff. Off you go. I'll see you in three weeks. We both know that you won't though, because claiming that you can play like this is possibly the most deluded thing that you have ever said, and that is not a short list to pick from. Will you be using your mandolin? Edited May 21, 2016 by PappyTron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 10 hours ago, JeanGenie said: Being a technical good guitatist is a bit like bodybuilding. You work every day and instead of more muscle you'll get faster. That itself to me has no musical value. What have so many technical great players achieved? Most people dont know their songs because they suck. Im not the worlds biggest Jimi Fan but he wrote some standards. And yet, most of the guitarists who can play rings around Hendrix aren't known for being speedfreaks; Shawn Lane, Guthrie Govan are anything but. Honestly, I'm staggered that people are struggling to separate guitar feeling from guitar mastery and ability. To me the difference between the two, and hence the point at hand, is crystal clear, but it seems that all of you guys couldn't care less about how good the guitarist is because you are judging by favouritism and not skill and that has nothing to do with whether Hendrix is overrated in his ability to play the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanGenie Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, PappyTron said: And yet, most of the guitarists who can play rings around Hendrix aren't known for being speedfreaks; Shawn Lane, Guthrie Govan are anything but. Honestly, I'm staggered that people are struggling to separate guitar feeling from guitar mastery and ability. To me the difference between the two, and hence the point at hand, is crystal clear, but it seems that all of you guys couldn't care less about how good the guitarist is because you are judging by favouritism and not skill and that has nothing to do with whether Hendrix is overrated in his ability to play the guitar. Hendrix is not my favorite guitarist. I dont know if theres an objective answer to the question whether hes overrated or not. To me he clearly is. But technique is just a means to an end. Most virtuosos lose themselves within their techincal abilities that dont serve the songs. I dont see this as a sport where necessarily someone has to be the best. Al di Meola is probably a better Flamenco player while Vai is a better sweep picker. Who's better? Its rubbish to think about imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Just now, JeanGenie said: Hendrix is not my favorite guitarist. I dont know if theres an objective answer to the question whether hes overrated or not. To me he clearly is. But technique is just a means to an end. Most virtuosos lose themselves within their techincal abilities that dont serve the songs. I dont see this as a sport where necessarily someone has to be the best. Al di Meola is probably a better Flamenco player while Vai is a better sweep picker. Who's better? Its rubbish to think about imo. But there is obviously a point where it is possible to state that one guitarist is better than another, purely on a technical level. Buckethead is a better guitarist than DJ Ashba and I don't think that anyone would disagree, yet when I state that Hendrix is not the best guitarist in history people lose their shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Sure the listener gets a say in who is the best, and there's more to guitar than either making weird noises or pure flawless technique, the challenge is whether either of those things keeps the listener interested or makes them wanna hear any more of that artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanGenie Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, PappyTron said: But there is obviously a point where it is possible to state that one guitarist is better than another, purely on a technical level. Buckethead is a better guitarist than DJ Ashba and I don't think that anyone would disagree, yet when I state that Hendrix is not the best guitarist in history people lose their shit. On a technical level I agree. Yet in many case its hard to judge as long as ones not playing in the same league. Hendrix was one of the most influential guitarists of all time and he died young so its natural that people will argue with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 21 minutes ago, JeanGenie said: On a technical level I agree. Yet in many case its hard to judge as long as ones not playing in the same league. Hendrix was one of the most influential guitarists of all time and he died young so its natural that people will argue with you. That is all that I have been saying; that on a purely technical, non-personal level, Hendrix has been surpassed by many, many guitarists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 hours ago, PappyTron said: And yet, most of the guitarists who can play rings around Hendrix aren't known for being speedfreaks; Shawn Lane, Guthrie Govan are anything but. Honestly, I'm staggered that people are struggling to separate guitar feeling from guitar mastery and ability. To me the difference between the two, and hence the point at hand, is crystal clear, but it seems that all of you guys couldn't care less about how good the guitarist is because you are judging by favouritism and not skill and that has nothing to do with whether Hendrix is overrated in his ability to play the guitar. Do you not permit songwriting, feeling and soul within your evaluation of a guitarist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 24 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Do you not permit songwriting, feeling and soul within your evaluation of a guitarist? Of course I do, but that has nothing to do with the ability to actually play the guitar, in isolation. I don't think that I can be much clearer in what I have stated. So, when can I look forward to your video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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