Jimi Hendrix

[Len Cnut]

 

Quote

 

Taking to its logical conclusion, we're all just wasting our time and musical criticism, forums and so forth, are pointless.

 

This is what i was getting at earlier but i don't think it's the case because you can construct an argument, though it won't be definitive, based on facts seasoned by your own personal responses to things.  It's all a bit of a larf end of the day though innit?  I don't think anyone on these boards is attempting to compile a definitive gospel of rock.

With me personally, you could probably show me a guitarist better than Hendrix and it wouldn't matter to me, it's something to do with those songs and that playing and his style of doing what he did that gets right to nerve endings in my willy, it's to do with my life and that music being a part of it and yes I suppose a degree of it is the prodigious ability to produce the sounds he did.  So when someone like Pappy comes along and goes 'Hendrix is overrated because there are people that exceed him in technical ability' i know what he's talking about.  I dont agree necessarily due to my strong personal inclination towards that kind of music...but he's not wrong in what he's saying.

I listen to Ron Asheton and i hear in his guitar playing things that, in a sense, to me, equals any guitar playing I've ever heard...and it's nothing to do with technical ability or profficency or historial context but the ability of THOSE sounds to illicit a strong internal response from me. But it's a personal thing.  I mean I'm not the only one who thinks so, there's a small contingent of folks out there that agree with my observations about Ron Asheton...and i could argue with anybody on the matter but part of it would include, on my part, an obstinant refusal to value certain aspect of musical prowess over others.  

Edited May 23, 2016 by Len B'stard

[PappyTron]

On 23/05/2016 at 1:42 AM, DieselDaisy said:

You need to re-read the whole discussion. I am incorporating technique, the technique of Jimi Hendrix. Where Pap differs is he is only using technique. My basis of Jimi's skills is multi-faceted, concerning (broadly) technique, emotion, songwriting and innovation. I admit the factor of emotion, songwriting and innovation into the appraisal in other words (as well as technique since we seem to be disccusing Jimi as if he was a punk rock guitarist!!) whereas Pap - and his opinions are truly pap - restricts the conversation to mere technical ability.

Word of advice, Pappy creates straw man arguments and ignores valid points (made by me) so do not interpret me through him: always look to the post above in other words. 

You don't even know what a straw man is, yet you constantly bring it up. It's like talking to a child. If I said, "Daisy has six fingers and likes to fuck his sister, and we should take his opinion on Hendrix with a pinch of salt because he believes that Jimi was sent to earth by Angels" THAT is a straw man argument. However, when I say "Daisy constantly makes inaccurate and oversweeping statements, such as claiming that Hendrix invented entire genres of music, rather than saying that Hendrix contributed to the beginnings of genres of music" that is not a straw man argument. I have had to point that out to you in multiple topics because you keep making the same preschool mistake.

As for technique vs technique + emotion + innovation + songwriting, like I pointed out, all of those are subjective and therefore open to interpretation, aside from technique which is something that can be looked at right down to mathematical perfection, if need be. Based on that it is inaccurate when people say that nobody can match Hendrix when it comes to playing the guitar, as the playing of the guitar is something that can be measured, and there are multiple people who have a greater mastery of it than he did. If you would like to weight your bias way towards the other factors then all bets are off because it is purely down to personal preference and therefore there is no right or wrong; Fred Durst and 'Lil Wayne are just as great guitarists as Hendrix.

Edited May 26, 2016 by PappyTron
Clarified a sentence for posterity.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, PappyTron said:

You don't even know what a straw man is, yet you constantly bring it up. It's like talking to a child. If I said, "Daisy has six fingers and likes to fuck his sister, therefore we should take his opinion on Hendrix with a pinch of salt" THAT is a straw man argument. However, when I say "Daisy constantly makes inaccurate and oversweeping statements, such as claiming that Hendrix invented entire genres of music, rather than saying that Hendrix contributed to the beginnings of genres of music" that is not a straw man argument. I have had to point that out to you in multiple topics because you keep making the same preschool mistake.

Do I have to spell out things literally to you? You are quick enough to search out quotations concerning English all-rounders yet you do not exert the slightest energy to find out my opinion on, say, the creation of hard rock (in brief, I cite Hendrix and Cream and would cite The Who and Kinks as precedence)?

Have you also got to be so crude? Honest to god, you are a nasty little arrogant shit. Possibly the worst excuse of a human I've come across on the internet.

1 hour ago, PappyTron said:

As for technique vs technique + emotion + innovation + songwriting, like I pointed out, all of those are subjective and therefore open to interpretation, aside from technique which is something that can be looked at right down to mathematical perfection, if need be. Based on that it is inaccurate when people say that nobody can match Hendrix when it comes to playing the guitar, as the playing of the guitar is something that can be measured, and there are multiple people who have a greater mastery of it than he did. If you would like to weight your bias way towards the other factors then all bets are off because it is purely down to personal preference and therefore there is no right or wrong; Fred Durst and 'Lil Wayne are just as great guitarists as Hendrix.

You admit subjectivity admits yet refuse to use it on this, most subjective of art forms? So you analyses music on raw objectivity? Well I don't - I'm sorry.

PS

First person on ignore (something I never thought I'd do).

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by DieselDaisy

[moreblack]

3 hours ago, Len B'stard said:

His debt to Mayfield is often understated.

Not a lot of people mention it either.

[PappyTron]

Do I have to spell out things literally to you?

Literally? No. Accurately and factually when making statements asserted as truths? Absolutely. If you are going to claim that I have made a straw man argument against you then I don't feel that it is too much to ask for you to know what a straw man argument actually is. Indeed, is that too much to ask or should I just ignore every occurrence of you blurting out something that is incorrect or wildly inaccurate or inappropriate?

Have you also got to be so crude? Honest to got, you are a nasty little arrogant shit. Possibly the worst excuse of a human I've come across on the internet.

You aren't going to get anywhere by flirting with me, Daisy. I'm not arrogant, it's just hard to be humble when you are engaged in a discussion with a person who has less experience than my beard. Indeed, the buckles on my shoes have more learning than you.

You admit subjectivity admits yet refuse to use it on this, most subjective of art forms?

When dissecting music down to its constituent parts in order to find out how is greater, it is objectivity that is sought, not subjectivity. Feeling, emotions, passions, etc are subjective discussions and are to be brought to bear when looking to discuss who is the better musician, not who can play a guitar better, which is to do with ability to play given complexities, speed and accuracy.

[Snake-Pit]

Jimi Hendrix is an inspiration for me..

Stories of him in the services on his down time rarely seen without his guitar...

Also.. The thing about Jimi Hendrix was, not only was he a fantastic guitarist, he was an incredible poet.

I personally love guitar and Jimi Hendrix's Fire and Purple Haze on vinyl (with the speed and key/'frequency' that comes with that format) actually got young fat me off my A' and physically dancing to those songs.

I like Jimi Hendrix, had a great tone and voice and was a poet who was very much a 'performance artist' I mean; The man worried if people liked his music or the fact that he'd set light to his guitar...

 

This looks fun.

 

Brian Jones & Jimi Hendrix.

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Snake-Pit

[Rovim]

11 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

All you got to do to play fast is sit down with a bunch of scales and exercises for a certain period of time and whiddle away.

This is not the case actually. You gotta have the genes to play super fast. I'm talking Paul Gilbert, Bucket, Bumble, and Shawn Lane fast. Every guitar player does have genetic limitations when it comes to speed, how fast you are able to pick for example.

So you can improve speed with practice, but it's not like everyone is equal or can get to whatever speed they want. David Gilmour for example will never be able to play fast. He talked about this. Shawn Lane also explained he was born with super fast hands.

[Snake-Pit]

4 hours ago, Rovim said:

This is not the case actually. You gotta have the genes to play super fast....

What?

It's all in the picking hand, to how you hold the pick to how you strum.

 

Slash in his prime;

 

That picking!!!

[Len Cnut]

For a further point in defence of ol' Jimmy James, he was only 27 when he died, having started playing guitar at 15, thats 12 good years of guitar playing, these other fuckers are well into middle age and over.  Quite phenomenal progression if you think about it.  Basically he learned to play guitar, gre to adulthood, reached a fuckin' peak for rock guitarists, released three bangin' game changing albums and wankered himself to death with a cocktail of downers and red wine and brown ale (fuckssake Jim, thats too pikey even for me!) all in less time than it took to record and release Chinese Democracy.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Len B'stard

[moreblack]

I'm glad everyone chose to take influence from Jimi at the time but chose to do their own thing. Can you imagine an entire era of Hendrix clones the same way so many rock players in the 80s basically tried to be Eddie Van Halen?

[Rovim]

6 hours ago, Snake-Pit said:

What?

It's all in the picking hand, to how you hold the pick to how you strum.

 

Slash in his prime;

 

That picking!!!

It's all in the you don't know what the hell you're talking about no offense dear Snake. Like I said, you can improve with practice but you have to be capable genetically to play fast. It's a mix of both but without the potential physically, you can never do it. It's different in each and every person.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Rovim

[moreblack]

Even with the speed and dexterity exercises those magazines devote pages and pages to?

[J Dog]

On 5/20/2016 at 7:58 PM, DR DOOM said:

That movie came out a couple of years ago and died a death.

The estate and friends of the man himself were against it and it didn't feature any of Hendrix's music.

Right on.

Damn it must have sucked pretty bad. I didn't even hear about it when it came out. But if the estate isn't down with it, and won't give out the rights, I don't really see the point in doing it anyway. 

[PappyTron]

2 hours ago, moreblack said:

Even with the speed and dexterity exercises those magazines devote pages and pages to?

Pretty much, just like any other activity. You can practice and practice 100m sprints, but unless you have a near perfect genetic base you will never be a sub 10 second runner, and the same holds true for playing guitars at extremely high speed. Also, keep in mind that playing fast is one thing, but playing fast with high accuracy is something else, which is why people like Buckethead, Guthrie Govan and Shawn Lane are so skilled; they can play highly complex songs, extremely quickly, and without hitting bad notes.

[DR DOOM]

13 hours ago, J Dog said:

Damn it must have sucked pretty bad. I didn't even hear about it when it came out. But if the estate isn't down with it, and won't give out the rights, I don't really see the point in doing it anyway. 

I haven't seen it (nor do I care to) but yeah it really tanked.

Fucking Andre 200 

 

[Len Cnut]

With 200 being the number of dollars the movie grossed

[J Dog]

I believe it. Damn it made absolutely no noise. I mean zero, nothing. I don't really care, I'd rather just watch him play the Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock.

[Snake-Pit]

20 hours ago, Rovim said:

It's all in the you don't know what the hell you're talking about no offense dear Snake. Like I said, you can improve with practice but you have to be capable genetically to play fast. It's a mix of both but without the potential physically, you can never do it. It's different in each and every person.

Just practise until you do it. Nurture over nature.

Unless there are potato people whose brains are wired differently than mine, so riddled with self doubt without the vision to develop their bodies.

 

I could have decided to play football/soccer like David Beckham, when I was 11.

I actually thought about that when I was 11 'I could play like David Beckham or be a goalkeeper like David Seaman or play guitar like Slash'...

But in reality, I dropped art, basketball & an interest in photography when guitar came along, even a stint at screenplay writing and html web designing... I was 12 when I first picked up guitar and I haven't put it down since.

I remember my finger tips hurting, because of how much I played. Day and night and then around school after I got brave enough and started to want to do it for real, so by the time I was 15, I was already firmly a little Jimi Hendrix wannabe.

Self taught more or less.

In fact, this was me when I was 16 so fresh out of dropping out of school I should have probably been graduating but instead I was;

I made the mayor sing Purple Haze that day... Was alright.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Snake-Pit

[Rovim]

23 minutes ago, Snake-Pit said:

Just practise until you do it. Nurture over nature.

Unless there are potato people whose brains are wired differently than mine, so riddled with self doubt without the vision to develop their bodies.

I could have decided to play football/soccer like David Beckham, when I was 11.

 

I actually thought about that when I was 11 'I could play like David Beckham or be a goalkeeper like David Seaman or play guitar like Slash'...

But in reality, I dropped art, basketball & an interest in photography when guitar came along, even a stint at screenplay writing and html web designing... I was 12, when I first picked up a guitar.

Self taught more or less.

Highly amusing post bro but... you need to have certain genetic qualities to even play guitar in the first place. You need certain qualities to play super fast like Bucket for example. This is a fact.

Some people can dance like MJ. Most can't. You see where I'm going with this? each person can do different things and genetics are part of it, practice is another.

Believe all you want, but you'll never be able to play as fast as Steve Vai for example no matter how much you practice and believe if you're physically incapable of pulling that shit off. Your body will never be ready.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Rovim

[Snake-Pit]

I sort of do something purely by choice

@ 1:44 

I like guitar.

[Snake-Pit]

I was just sort of running through this song... Like, sort of learning it, and stuff... But, yeah, I fucked up due to 'me not knowing the song' like I knew it, just not a working knowledge of it.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Snake-Pit

[JeanGenie]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

 Amusing post but bro... you need to have certain genetic qualities to even play guitar in the first place. You need certain qualities to play super fast like Bucket for example. This is a fact.

Some people can dance like MJ. Most can't. You see where I'm going with this? each person can do different things and genetics are part of it, practice is another.

Believe all you want, but you'll never be able to play as fast as Steve Vai for example no matter how much you practice and believe if you're physically incapable of pulling that shit off. Your body will never be ready.

Youve got a point but you can come very close.  Its a matter of how much drill your parents force on you. Most people I know who studied guitar started at the age of 4-5 and kept playing until today.  In college they played up to 8 hours a day. Most of them are beasts today that can play almost any song by any guitarist.  But the german school System is very selective if it comes to music .

[Snake-Pit]

Also @ 8:00 

 

[Len Cnut]

52 minutes ago, Snake-Pit said:

Just practise until you do it. Nurture over nature.

Unless there are potato people whose brains are wired differently than mine, so riddled with self doubt without the vision to develop their bodies.

 

I could have decided to play football/soccer like David Beckham, when I was 11.

I actually thought about that when I was 11 'I could play like David Beckham or be a goalkeeper like David Seaman or play guitar like Slash'...

But in reality, I dropped art, basketball & an interest in photography when guitar came along, even a stint at screenplay writing and html web designing... I was 12 when I first picked up guitar and I haven't put it down since.

I remember my finger tips hurting, because of how much I played. Day and night and then around school after I got brave enough and started to want to do it for real, so by the time I was 15, I was already firmly a little Jimi Hendrix wannabe.

Self taught more or less.

In fact, this was me when I was 16 so fresh out of dropping out of school I should have probably been graduating but instead I was;

I made the mayor sing Purple Haze that day... Was alright.

Why does the mayor look like old man Steptoe?

[PappyTron]

4 hours ago, JeanGenie said:

Youve got a point but you can come very close.  Its a matter of how much drill your parents force on you. Most people I know who studied guitar started at the age of 4-5 and kept playing until today.  In college they played up to 8 hours a day. Most of them are beasts today that can play almost any song by any guitarist.  But the german school System is very selective if it comes to music .

Right, but the ones who are beasts on the guitar are the ones who have the genetic gift in the first place. The ones who don't have it have already fallen by the wayside, years ago. Also, the higher up in skill level you go, in anything, the more difficult each increment becomes, so that extra 5% in speed/accuracy/technique for the very best, might in effect require 100% more talent.