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NEW GNR AT THEIR BEST IN 2002


Randy Lahey

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Wanted to see this lineup so badly.

Had tickets to see them and made it to the arena. Unfortunately, the arena was in Philly.

You and me both.

I have enough bootlegs from the 2002 to know that Axl sounded like shit just about every night. He sounds good on the new songs, but all the old songs are very weak, vocally.

Having said that, take the Boston 2002 show and compare it to the concerts on the radio in December 2011, the 2002 sounds godlike. Axl is easily the worst he's ever been vocally these days.

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I only saw one show in 2002 (Detroit) and it got cut short but my oh my was that a fuckin' great rock show!

I was at that show also, and you have a different memory of it than me. I remember Axl getting pissed because the audience wasn't into the show. He through the mic up in the air during patience and walked off the stage. The lights came on, and a very medicore show was over. I did think Axl sounded good that night though. The rest of the band was let down imo, no audience interaction at all. It really was the Axl show. When I saw them again at the same venue in 2011, I thought it was a much better show all around. Played longer, axl sounded good, the audience was into it, and ron and dj really do interact with the crowd better.

No, I'm saying I personally thought the show was great. The crowd was so so at best. Also, I don't think Axl threw his mic over anything to do with the crowd, it was more due to the awful version of Patience the band played from what I could tell.

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2006 was the peak of the new bank IMO. The 2 shows I saw in London and Glasgow were superb

Word. Axl was on fire and Robin Finck was more refined (both in terms of look and performance).

Brain was still about and Ron quickly settled in (despite getting no prep time whatsoever).

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He told you this?

If you compare the way Ron played in 2006 to the way he plays now, it's quite apparent. He was given literally weeks to try and prepare a GNR catalogue. Do you think he gave any thought to a solo spot for example? No, it was clearly a matter of learn as much as possible and try to get through it.

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He told you this?

If you compare the way Ron played in 2006 to the way he plays now, it's quite apparent. He was given literally weeks to try and prepare a GNR catalogue. Do you think he gave any thought to a solo spot for example? No, it was clearly a matter of learn as much as possible and try to get through it.

And they didn't even make it easy for him, he had to learn the fucking TWAT solo using headphones :lol:

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He told you this?

If you compare the way Ron played in 2006 to the way he plays now, it's quite apparent. He was given literally weeks to try and prepare a GNR catalogue. Do you think he gave any thought to a solo spot for example? No, it was clearly a matter of learn as much as possible and try to get through it.

Wasn't Ron given a laptop for about 15 minutes to hear and tab out all of Buckets parts on the new songs? This is why I believe the Twat solo improved in 2009-2012... He actually had time to prepare it properly.

Also many of the other solos he seemed to go back and learn properly. Nothing will ever beat Ron's 2006 Nightrain from Rock Am Ring. I feel he never matched the greatness of it after.

PS. Seeing GNR in 2002 was a lot of fun. Axl was such a showman... Running around, getting all into it. I haven't seen a better live performance since, even if his vox weren't great.

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Interesting point, NGOG. It must have been a half-terrifying, half-thrilling experience for him.

Having seen them in 2002 and 2011, I found the 2002 lineup fascinatingly weird. Bucket was this offputting presence in the middle of the stage, like some sort of robot who could play amazing guitar (and do tricks with nunchucks). While I prefer his playing to DJ and Bumble's, those two guys do bring a crowdpleasing eagerness to the shows. They seem truly motivated to connect with fans and make them happy. The 2002 lineup seemed arty and distant in comparison. I feel lucky to have experienced both.

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I don't know, Axl's vocals were pretty awful during this period. Mickey to the max; how he can't seem to find some sort of happy medium between nail-gargling rasp and clean singing, I'll never understand.

Still don't get the obsession with Finck. What did that guy ever write? I know, I know, you'll say "Better," but what parts did he actually contribute? If it was just the lick in the beginning and the verses, that ain't saying much for his songwriting abilities! He's a hired-hand touring musician, just like the rest of Axl's troupe. I'm actually quite cool with all of the New Gn'R lineups as long as Axl sounds good.

I agree 100% about Axl. A lot of people complain about his voice now. I think it was at its worst during this period. And I didn't get into the whole freak show thing. Great group of musicians though, no question.
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Do you not understand why he shredded? It was a coping mechanism having not been given adequate time to prepare.

He told you this?
He actually said that. He had like one week to learn everything. He said he felt like he was brought in to play the crazier stuff, so he just threw in improvised crazy solos and licks. He didnt have the right gear as well. However, in 2009 he had enough time to rehearse with everyone and figure out guitar and backing vocals, so he improved a lot as well as Richard. Thats why the songs sound so much better now...
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He told you this?

If you compare the way Ron played in 2006 to the way he plays now, it's quite apparent. He was given literally weeks to try and prepare a GNR catalogue. Do you think he gave any thought to a solo spot for example? No, it was clearly a matter of learn as much as possible and try to get through it.

Updated as Bruno also is saying that BBF said that.

Edited by Coma16
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I don't know, Axl's vocals were pretty awful during this period. Mickey to the max; how he can't seem to find some sort of happy medium between nail-gargling rasp and clean singing, I'll never understand.

Still don't get the obsession with Finck. What did that guy ever write? I know, I know, you'll say "Better," but what parts did he actually contribute? If it was just the lick in the beginning and the verses, that ain't saying much for his songwriting abilities! He's a hired-hand touring musician, just like the rest of Axl's troupe. I'm actually quite cool with all of the New Gn'R lineups as long as Axl sounds good.

I agree 100% about Axl. A lot of people complain about his voice now. I think it was at its worst during this period. And I didn't get into the whole freak show thing. Great group of musicians though, no question.

The thing is, whether you liked his voice or not, this was over 10 years ago, and he was clearly going to continue. He hadn't been seen in 8 years so just to have him out touring was kind of enough. He didn't sound great, but he also wasn't over 50 and at a crossroads about how much longer he could actually perform. His return after a long delay, as well as still having so much energy cancelled out the voice. This was a period where, while not perfect, there was still hope for GNR as opposed to today. Its been said, he was still hungry, young enough, and vicious.

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I agree. After becoming the most reclusive rock star in history, to be able to actually see Axl was mindblowing unto itself. At the time, that was enough. Only after the band became a regular touring entity and the album still failed to surface did peoples' patience and goodwill begin to wear out.

Which, nearly five years after Chinese Democracy, seems to be where we're heading to again right now.

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I don't know, Axl's vocals were pretty awful during this period. Mickey to the max; how he can't seem to find some sort of happy medium between nail-gargling rasp and clean singing, I'll never understand.

Still don't get the obsession with Finck. What did that guy ever write? I know, I know, you'll say "Better," but what parts did he actually contribute? If it was just the lick in the beginning and the verses, that ain't saying much for his songwriting abilities! He's a hired-hand touring musician, just like the rest of Axl's troupe. I'm actually quite cool with all of the New Gn'R lineups as long as Axl sounds good.

I agree 100% about Axl. A lot of people complain about his voice now. I think it was at its worst during this period. And I didn't get into the whole freak show thing. Great group of musicians though, no question.

The cool thing about Axl's vocals in '02 is that they were strong and he had attitude. He was in much better shape then and sounded less winded than '11-'13 despite running all over the place then vs. doing considerably less these days. '02 Axl had some weak points, sure, but so did '10 Axl. '02 at times his voice soared to places I havent heard anyone else duplicate since, much like '10 Axl was gritty in a way I havent heard before (except old school Axl). YES I KNOW some other people can hit "the notes" but Axl's voice was like a fucking laser. The intro to '01 Rio WTTJ is about as good as it gets imo. The '02 voice is what made possible tracks like IRS, which is one his finest moments.

Edited by Eu4ic
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If you think the officially released Chinese Democracy booklet accurately depicts Robin Finck's contributions to the record, you're mistaken. ASCAP have since corrected that by confirming Robin actually has a total of 7 song credits.

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From a search for Robin's name at https://www.ascap.com/Home/ace-title-search/index.aspx

1.

BETTER

Work ID: 323536438

2.

CATCHER IN THE RYE

Work ID: 334474378

3.

CHINESE DEMOCRACY

Work ID: 334393698

4.

PROSTITUTE

Work ID: 463436497

5.

RIAD N' THE BEDOUINS

Work ID: 482479334

6.

SHACKLER S REVENGE

Work ID: 495999098

7.

STREET OF DREAMS

Work ID: 497227195

Edited by ClaudeF
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From a search for Robin's name at https://www.ascap.com/Home/ace-title-search/index.aspx

1.

BETTER

Work ID: 323536438

2.

CATCHER IN THE RYE

Work ID: 334474378

3.

CHINESE DEMOCRACY

Work ID: 334393698

4.

PROSTITUTE

Work ID: 463436497

5.

RIAD N' THE BEDOUINS

Work ID: 482479334

6.

SHACKLER S REVENGE

Work ID: 495999098

7.

STREET OF DREAMS

Work ID: 497227195

Strange that he has credits on songs that feature him in no way. Maybe Axl should bring him back as a writer. Before the "integrity" crowd rushes in, I'll politely remind them that they're full of shit if they think skulletboy has any. :shrugs:

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2002 was my favorite year as a GN'R fan. I know compared to most fans, I'm young. But 2001 was when I discovered the band and 2002 was when my interest was peaked. Of course, I had bootlegs and audios of the old band and to be honest, even though the old band was legit, the new band to me, just interested me more. Here you are, with a new band, different look, different style of playing, and a singer whom is trying to reinvent himself as well as the band. And knowing that he would get backlash for using the name, but had the guts to forward and keep using a name that he believes in and not let fade away.

When I first saw the Rio performance in 01'. I was a little disappointed with Axl vocally, as most people were. But the energy was there, him running around the stage like a mad man, his all around stage presence, the new songs and different style of singing intrigued me. As the 2002 tour went on, his vocals not only got stronger, but he was able to hold notes longer and in some songs, you'd hear him mix a little bit of clean singing with raspy singing. The VMA performance blew my mind, because it was unexpected, and after watching it multiple times, his singing was not all that bad. Yes he was out of breath a few times, but have to give the guy a break, he had not been in the public eye for years and now presenting a brand new band for the entire world to see on national tv has to be nerve racking.

Back again to the 2002 Line up. To me, it was a new beginning, a fresh start. And hearing a group of very talented players, even though they looked a little odd, due their style of playing on the old songs, but not fade away from the original to much and Axl's new style of singing just had me hooked, he had a bit of attitude, and a bit of a hunger to perform it seemed. Others will call it the freak show error or the mickey mouse error. But his vocals were not as bad as people make they out to be. The current style of his singing is more so mickey mouse in my opinion, rather it be health reasons or just his preference to sing in this manner, I don't know. One a side note, I did read somewhere a long time ago, I cannot remember the source, but it was posted on this forum, that Axl was not ready to tour during that time, but had too to get extra cash for Chinese. Rather if its true or not, I don't know. Another thing I read on this forum is that Axl funded the last 2 or 3 shows out of his pocket because of the tour being canceled. Rather if that's true or not, I have no idea. I do wish the tour would of ended on a good note, but I am thankful that we got a tour that year and we got a whole new taste of this New GN'R. For those who don't like it, don't come to this part of the forum.

Now the best performances of that tour in my opinion; (in no order). Boston, Albany, London, Leeds, Columbus, Chicago, New York, Pittsburg, and Tokyo. Was just watching the Leeds DVD just know, I rank this performance of KOHD with the Boston performance, Two of the best out of any line up in my opinion.

http://youtu.be/RamNJSGQsKM

Edited by WWEROSES
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