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Axl had a MasterPlan - which collapsed


pe_teko

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He had a perfect band:

Tommy Stinson - The Replacements. One of the most important bands fromt he 80s

Freese - Genius drummer

Buckethead - amazing solo guitar player

Finck - nine inch nails. Extremely talented

The rest of the band are good musicians

He wanted 3 albums released by 2012. The general would be released in the third record.

Some people said they had being working in about 70 songs by 99'

Then Freese is out of the band. Mantya is playing exactly the same thing Freese had recorded. The thing is Freese could also write good songs.

2002 comeback fails.

Then Buckethead is out of the band.

4 years after the comeback they try to comeback again. Axl promises the album to sound that year (2006). It sounds, but leaked. Just a few songs. TWAT, better,... they are part of 2006 tour set list. The album isn't released.

2008. Finally Chinese democracy is released. No tour. No promotion. People doesn't care about Guns n'Roses. It's not 2002 anymore. It seems as if they'd lost their opportunity. It sounds overproduced. 99' demos with freese sound much better than the actual album.

Then Fink is out of the band.

New band with:

Ashba: not as good player as Fink. Not as talented songwriter as Finck.

Bumblefoot: just a shadow compared with Buckethead.

Axl's plan has collapsed. Not only commercially but also artistically. Original plan cannot take place with this new band.

nuGNR fans were mainly fans of 2002 nuGNR. They had accepted Axl had a plan. Something he couldn't achieve with Slash. He needed Finck, Freese, Buckethead,... Talented musicians for a new way in music. You had to be very openminded to accept that, but fans understood Axl's purpose. and supported him.

In my opinion, everything collapsed. Axl knows that. He will probably try to do something with Ashba but the feeling is Axl takes so long because he can't achieve what he was looking for.

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Not many artists get a second chance. The public eye gave Axl a second chance with his new approach, then gave Axl yet another chance when he cameback in 2002, then gave Axl another chance when he cameback in 2006, then gave Axl another chance when the record came out in 2008. Then gave Axl another chance in 2010 (successful tour and everything was looking good), but then came 2011 and it blew everything he had build up in 2010.

I dunno what to say...i think Axl has had a lot of chances through the years...

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I don't think he had a masterplan, maybe a vague idea but not a master plan. And when you hire talented people it's easy to understand that they want to make something out of their talent, this is why everybody left and why we have what we have now.

Axl needs to radically change if he wants to work with real,talented musicians.

I can't imagine anyone with ambitions working with the Axl of today.

Edited by stumbleine
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Uhh...what are these '99 demos with Freese? I was under the impression ALL leaks had a drum machine or Brain, and that all we've heard from Freese is OMG (Which is awesome)...

Freeze did all the original drumwork Brain put his feel on Freezes work as far as I'm aware the demos are Brain

Edited by ThinkAboutYou
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I get tired of the "Finck is a great songwriter line". Better is the only good song he has EVER written! Doesn't constitute a great songwriter. I remember the forum back when Finck/Bucket etc were in the band and in Robins case he was far from popular, particularly when the subject of the Sweet Child/November solos came up!

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I get tired of the "Finck is a great songwriter line". Better is the only good song he has EVER written! Doesn't constitute a great songwriter. I remember the forum back when Finck/Bucket etc were in the band and in Robins case he was far from popular, particularly when the subject of the Sweet Child/November solos came up!

His technique was terrible I admit, but his studio solos are very interesting. He could certainly benefit from classical guitar lessons for sure.

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Obviously I get what you're saying, but all you're really doing is reciting the timeline since 1999, which we all know very well. I agree with you, I think there was a plan. But its hard to blame anyone but Axl for that plan falling apart. Yes, I'm sure at SOME point the record label did some annoying and idiotic things. But they didn't keep the record from being released for 10 years. Ultimately Axl did.

I assume his master plan was to come back in 2002, reinvigorate everyone about GNR, then release a record. And he was doing pretty well. Then Philadelphia happened. HE decided not to go to the show, it really fucked everything over, and the tour was cancelled. Thats it. Any plan he had after that had to be completely remodeled because he essentially just pissed away what was looking like a pretty successful plan and was actually working.

OK, so then because that plan fell apart, it killed him. Took at least a year to recover. Around 2004-2005, he starts coming up with a new plan. "I have ONE more shot. Let's get the 2002 lineup, minus Buckethead because he understandably got tired of waiting for me, I'll get in really good shape so I sound better and look less weird, and we'll release the fucking record. It will be like 2002 never happened." Ok, so thats another pretty good and realistic plan. It works rather well. They successfully tour through 2006 and Axl is great. He probably didn't attract anymore new people, which was probably still the goal in 2002, but he got back all those that had previously given up. And for no other logical reason, except for what I have to assume is laziness, Chinese Democracy doesn't come out, not even the next year in 2007.

Boom. Thats the end. It sounds harsh, but thats it in a nutshell. He was given two shots and both crumpled. Two master plans gone awry because of poor decisions on Axl's part for the most part. Any plan he had after the album failed to come out in 2007 is and has remained hopeless. Too many people gave up after the second time and unless you put out another Appetite that will be universally praised, he knows there's no way to comeback for a THIRD time. It all fell apart very quickly, but all due to his own actions, which is hilarious to think because he must have spent years coming up with these master plans that were relatively easy to accomplish.

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I agree with the above, Axl got a second shot in 2006 and blew it. I would even say he got a third shot at doing something in 2010 as they did a lot of great shows and seemed to impress a lot of people but again, he's blown it!

He had a chance to keep GN'R relevant but that's gone. An industrial album from 99-02 would sink now, I mean how could you promote it? The members who created it are mostly gone and only the hardcore would buy it. The only way forward now would be reworkings of those tracks with the new line up in the 'Going Down' style, or an album of fresh material from the current line up. Failing that, a reunion which is really all the general public are interested in.

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