What if the original lineup stayed Guns N' Roses? Circa 1985

[ARBeast]

This had me honestly thinking the other day. What if the original lineup had stayed together?

I'm talking about the original Guns N' Roses. Axl Rose, Tracii Guns, Izzy Stradlin, Ole Beich, Rob Gardner. What if that band had survived and when someone posted in here asking "Where's Slash?" we could instead think "What's a Slash?" I've wondered if songs like sweet child or jungle would have ever been invented. I wonder if Guns N' Roses would be just as big as they became.

And better question, would Axl even have needed to purchase the right's to the name? He clearly did it to maintain control of the band, whereas Slash, izzy, duff, others just didn't care. Would he have fought with Tracii?

Thoughts?

[saber_]

*inb4 original lineup debate

[RussTCB]

Not to derail, but I don't think I've ever read why Tracii Guns actually left. Was he fired? Did he quit? Whichever it was, does anyone know why? I honestly don't think I've ever read about it.

[wfuckinga]

Didn't Ole commit suicide by drowning in 1991 after seeing GN'R?

Not to derail, but I don't think I've ever read why Tracii Guns actually left. Was he fired? Did he quit? Whichever it was, does anyone know why? I honestly don't think I've ever read about it.

I thought I read in Slash's book he quit before the Hell Tour

[username]

They wouldn't have made it. With all due respect to Tracii, a band making it like GnR did is like lightning striking. It doesn't just happen. The chemistry between the members, the music, the timing, the attitude, the energy, the whole music scene, the culture... Everything needs to be just right for a band to make it like they did. The chances of that happening with another lineup... almost non-existent.

[dalsh327]

Not to derail, but I don't think I've ever read why Tracii Guns actually left. Was he fired? Did he quit? Whichever it was, does anyone know why? I honestly don't think I've ever read about it.

http://thequietus.com/articles/04450-dr-rock-tracii-guns-interview-la-guns-nikki-sixx-poison-guns-n-roses

http://talesfromthestage.com/tracii-guns-interview/

Edited October 1, 2013 by dalsh327

[Apollo]

LA Guns were a pretty boring band and from what I've read, Traci has always been pretty egotistical.

So hard to imagine that band staying together for long.

[liers]

Didn't Ole commit suicide by drowning in 1991 after seeing GN'R?

Not to derail, but I don't think I've ever read why Tracii Guns actually left. Was he fired? Did he quit? Whichever it was, does anyone know why? I honestly don't think I've ever read about it.

I thought I read in Slash's book he quit before the Hell Tour

He supposedly left and then developed a drinking and drug habbit due to depression he felt after leaving GnR and it then becoming famous. He saw GnR in 1991 and then either drowned due to suicide or because he had drank a ton.

That said, with that kind of commitment to the band, I think he would've helped to hold the band together and avoid a breakup.

I also think I read somewhere that Tracii left because Ole did, but I'm not too sure.

Axl, Slash, Izzy, Matt, and Ole would've made a good band, no disrespect to Duff. Slash did contribute alot to the GnR sound which you can't deny. Having Tracii instead of Slash would've lead to it being more of a hair band. Slash brought in more of the rock sound.

Edited October 1, 2013 by liers

[Johnny Drama]

Ole would have made it good? Based on what?!

[Dean]

Didn't Tracii refuse to go on a tour that was already booked?

If that line-up did stay together, I don't think we'd be on this forum today and Axl definitely wouldn't be known for the talent, showmanship and incredible song-writer that he'd later prove he was. It was a blessing in disguise with the early formation of GN'R dissolving, as the 5 guys that made GN'R what they are today were something special and they all had a helping hand in getting each to the level where they are now in terms of their talent and identity. We got phenomenal music from them, something I'm really appreciative of as it's fucking top drawer. Same with Chinese Democracy, guys like Finck, Buckethead and Stinson gave this new era of GN'R a pretty cool vibe and image that had shit loads of potential.

Check out this article on Ole. Pretty old, but good for newer members who haven't read it.

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/126067-huge-ole-beich-article-the-danish-gnr-bassist/?p=2710372

[sweetness]

None of us would be here

[DieselDaisy]

It would have been a cross between Hollywood Rose and LA Guns, i.e. a moderately decent hair band.

[bumblerose]

I cant remember where I read it bit tracii guns said axl In the early years used to play november rain and a few other songs that were not released until 7 years later. Then again fink and stinson heard songs that werent released until 10 years later haha

[jmapelian]

Not to derail, but I don't think I've ever read why Tracii Guns actually left. Was he fired? Did he quit? Whichever it was, does anyone know why? I honestly don't think I've ever read about it.

He quit because he didn't want to go on the hell tour as duff makes it sound like him and gardner or olie didn't quite have the commitment. So, that's what would have happened to Original GnR. They would have disbanded because duff was about to quit and it would have only been izzy and axl.

[classicguns4life]

The answer is no, they wouldn't have been as successful as GNR was. Slash created stuff like the iconic Sweet Child riff. Without that, its debatable whether the song would have been written, let alone become the hit it is. They probably could have gotten by and been a little better than your typical hair band due to Axl and Izzy, although I think there's more stuff like the Sweet Child thing that just shows it had to be those guys, at least Axl, Slash, Duff and Izzy.

[Raz0r]

I disagree with everyone here, I think GNR would have definitely made it with that line up, and they would still have been a huge band. IDK if they would have reached the heights that the classic line up did in the early 90's buy I still think they would have made it and been a big, successful band.

My thought is, the keys to GNR's success were Axl being one if the best frontmen in rock, Izzy's song writing talent, and Slash's chops. (Not to discount Duff, Steve, and Matt's contributions, they certainly contributed to the sound we love, but I think those three were the cornerstones of what made GNR great). So with the original lineup you still have 2 of those 3 factors, the third factor being replaced by Tracii Guns, who is also a very good guitar player.

Now I'm an L.A. Guns fan, so I maybe a little bias here, but Tracii is good. He's played some great guitar on L.A. Guns, and L.A.G was a moderately successful band in itself. Add an iconic frontman to L.A.G, and a better songwriter and they would have been much more successful, no doubt. So I have no doubt that GNR would have been successful with that original line up.

Now would they have hit the heights that the classic line up hit? IDK, but I'm also not convinced they wouldn't have. Looking back at the bodies of work that we have from Tracii and Slash, Tracii hasn't created anything near as icon as Slash. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Tracii couldn't have. Who knows what working with Axl and Izzy could have inspired out of the guy.

But no doubt they would have still made it and still been successful.

[Crash Diet]

Nothing.
They not became famous, just a mediocre sunset strip band with a few ok songs

[jmapelian]

I disagree with everyone here, I think GNR would have definitely made it with that line up, and they would still have been a huge band. IDK if they would have reached the heights that the classic line up did in the early 90's buy I still think they would have made it and been a big, successful band.

My thought is, the keys to GNR's success were Axl being one if the best frontmen in rock, Izzy's song writing talent, and Slash's chops. (Not to discount Duff, Steve, and Matt's contributions, they certainly contributed to the sound we love, but I think those three were the cornerstones of what made GNR great). So with the original lineup you still have 2 of those 3 factors, the third factor being replaced by Tracii Guns, who is also a very good guitar player.

Now I'm an L.A. Guns fan, so I maybe a little bias here, but Tracii is good. He's played some great guitar on L.A. Guns, and L.A.G was a moderately successful band in itself. Add an iconic frontman to L.A.G, and a better songwriter and they would have been much more successful, no doubt. So I have no doubt that GNR would have been successful with that original line up.

Now would they have hit the heights that the classic line up hit? IDK, but I'm also not convinced they wouldn't have. Looking back at the bodies of work that we have from Tracii and Slash, Tracii hasn't created anything near as icon as Slash. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Tracii couldn't have. Who knows what working with Axl and Izzy could have inspired out of the guy.

But no doubt they would have still made it and still been successful.

Dude, if they sounded like holywood rose, they never would have gotten on a label

[RussTCB]

Thanks to all for the info on Tracii. It's just something I never looked into.

[volcano62]

I disagree with everyone here, I think GNR would have definitely made it with that line up, and they would still have been a huge band. IDK if they would have reached the heights that the classic line up did in the early 90's buy I still think they would have made it and been a big, successful band.

My thought is, the keys to GNR's success were Axl being one if the best frontmen in rock, Izzy's song writing talent, and Slash's chops. (Not to discount Duff, Steve, and Matt's contributions, they certainly contributed to the sound we love, but I think those three were the cornerstones of what made GNR great). So with the original lineup you still have 2 of those 3 factors, the third factor being replaced by Tracii Guns, who is also a very good guitar player.

Now I'm an L.A. Guns fan, so I maybe a little bias here, but Tracii is good. He's played some great guitar on L.A. Guns, and L.A.G was a moderately successful band in itself. Add an iconic frontman to L.A.G, and a better songwriter and they would have been much more successful, no doubt. So I have no doubt that GNR would have been successful with that original line up.

Now would they have hit the heights that the classic line up hit? IDK, but I'm also not convinced they wouldn't have. Looking back at the bodies of work that we have from Tracii and Slash, Tracii hasn't created anything near as icon as Slash. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Tracii couldn't have. Who knows what working with Axl and Izzy could have inspired out of the guy.

But no doubt they would have still made it and still been successful.

Dude, if they sounded like holywood rose, they never would have gotten on a label

I don't think Tracii ever played with Hollywood Rose? Only LA Guns and Guns N' Roses

[Crash Diet]

I disagree with everyone here, I think GNR would have definitely made it with that line up, and they would still have been a huge band. IDK if they would have reached the heights that the classic line up did in the early 90's buy I still think they would have made it and been a big, successful band.

My thought is, the keys to GNR's success were Axl being one if the best frontmen in rock, Izzy's song writing talent, and Slash's chops. (Not to discount Duff, Steve, and Matt's contributions, they certainly contributed to the sound we love, but I think those three were the cornerstones of what made GNR great). So with the original lineup you still have 2 of those 3 factors, the third factor being replaced by Tracii Guns, who is also a very good guitar player.

Now I'm an L.A. Guns fan, so I maybe a little bias here, but Tracii is good. He's played some great guitar on L.A. Guns, and L.A.G was a moderately successful band in itself. Add an iconic frontman to L.A.G, and a better songwriter and they would have been much more successful, no doubt. So I have no doubt that GNR would have been successful with that original line up.

Now would they have hit the heights that the classic line up hit? IDK, but I'm also not convinced they wouldn't have. Looking back at the bodies of work that we have from Tracii and Slash, Tracii hasn't created anything near as icon as Slash. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Tracii couldn't have. Who knows what working with Axl and Izzy could have inspired out of the guy.

But no doubt they would have still made it and still been successful.

Dude, if they sounded like holywood rose, they never would have gotten on a label

I don't think Tracii ever played with Hollywood Rose? Only LA Guns and Guns N' Roses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Rose

[volcano62]

I disagree with everyone here, I think GNR would have definitely made it with that line up, and they would still have been a huge band. IDK if they would have reached the heights that the classic line up did in the early 90's buy I still think they would have made it and been a big, successful band.

My thought is, the keys to GNR's success were Axl being one if the best frontmen in rock, Izzy's song writing talent, and Slash's chops. (Not to discount Duff, Steve, and Matt's contributions, they certainly contributed to the sound we love, but I think those three were the cornerstones of what made GNR great). So with the original lineup you still have 2 of those 3 factors, the third factor being replaced by Tracii Guns, who is also a very good guitar player.

Now I'm an L.A. Guns fan, so I maybe a little bias here, but Tracii is good. He's played some great guitar on L.A. Guns, and L.A.G was a moderately successful band in itself. Add an iconic frontman to L.A.G, and a better songwriter and they would have been much more successful, no doubt. So I have no doubt that GNR would have been successful with that original line up.

Now would they have hit the heights that the classic line up hit? IDK, but I'm also not convinced they wouldn't have. Looking back at the bodies of work that we have from Tracii and Slash, Tracii hasn't created anything near as icon as Slash. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Tracii couldn't have. Who knows what working with Axl and Izzy could have inspired out of the guy.

But no doubt they would have still made it and still been successful.

Dude, if they sounded like holywood rose, they never would have gotten on a label

I don't think Tracii ever played with Hollywood Rose? Only LA Guns and Guns N' Roses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Rose

They changed to Guns N' Roses when Tracii joined.

[Raz0r]

I disagree with everyone here, I think GNR would have definitely made it with that line up, and they would still have been a huge band. IDK if they would have reached the heights that the classic line up did in the early 90's buy I still think they would have made it and been a big, successful band.

My thought is, the keys to GNR's success were Axl being one if the best frontmen in rock, Izzy's song writing talent, and Slash's chops. (Not to discount Duff, Steve, and Matt's contributions, they certainly contributed to the sound we love, but I think those three were the cornerstones of what made GNR great). So with the original lineup you still have 2 of those 3 factors, the third factor being replaced by Tracii Guns, who is also a very good guitar player.

Now I'm an L.A. Guns fan, so I maybe a little bias here, but Tracii is good. He's played some great guitar on L.A. Guns, and L.A.G was a moderately successful band in itself. Add an iconic frontman to L.A.G, and a better songwriter and they would have been much more successful, no doubt. So I have no doubt that GNR would have been successful with that original line up.

Now would they have hit the heights that the classic line up hit? IDK, but I'm also not convinced they wouldn't have. Looking back at the bodies of work that we have from Tracii and Slash, Tracii hasn't created anything near as icon as Slash. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Tracii couldn't have. Who knows what working with Axl and Izzy could have inspired out of the guy.

But no doubt they would have still made it and still been successful.

Dude, if they sounded like holywood rose, they never would have gotten on a label

Well they wouldn't have sounded like Hollywood Rose, they would have sounded like a mix of Hollywood Rose and LA Guns. But also, we don't really know what they would have sounded like, we can only hazard a guess.

I think it's unfair to form an opinion on the few demos we've heard from Hollywood Rose. I imagine sounding more like Axl's vocals and melodies from the Illusions, with Izzy's song writing from the Illusions, mixed with the musical sound of the first two LA Guns albums.

Those LA Guns albums both certified gold btw; the band is still active today and they've put out over 10 studio albums. So I'd say that's a pretty successful band. I think it's fair to say they would have been more successful with a better front man and song writer to their credit.

[wasted]

Actually I think Izzy wrote the cords to SCOM. Axl heard Slash playing intro part. I think its called a lick?

anyway I think Axl and Izzy were going places. Mainly because of their songwriting abilities. Axl had Nov Rain bwfore AFD came out. Izzy wrote DC before AFD too.

No doubt they had the perfect combo. Slash has great sound and sounds assured. Slash gave them thw commercial sound to sell records. He has a really cool populist aesethic.

[rockerman]

Not to derail, but I don't think I've ever read why Tracii Guns actually left. Was he fired? Did he quit? Whichever it was, does anyone know why? I honestly don't think I've ever read about it.

bandsin Hollywood at that time were nortoriously shifting...constantly. We went through 5 drummers in a period of 4 months. Either they couldnt hack it or they were poached by other bands or quit to start a band of thier own. Typical in 85/86 were lineups that paid to play a set one week and then went on to other things the next. GNR were survivors and the AFD line up were the hard core of the hard core. In that era there were thousands of people converging on the sunset strip to make thier dreams come true. You had tons of competion, logistics and then of course talent. Many of the good bands poached thier members from other bands ..Crue, ratt, GNR etc... for every one band that "made it" there were thousands who went no where.

Tracii Guns wanted his own band, had his own style and contacts.. I read where him and Axl just didnt jive on the music and they did like 99% of the scene did...difted in and out until they found a solid line up that would work. GNR hit and hit big and L.A. Guns hit to a degree but never even close to GNR. Some have said that the only reason L.A. Guns had a chance was the attention focused on GNR and the copy cat bands that were being watched by the industry.

Had that line up stayed together they would have in my opinion been mediocre to good at best. There were hundreds of bands that came and went in that era....I t hink they may have had a moment in the sun but nothing even close to the GNR phenomenon

AFD lineup worked hard and played and rehearsed like men possesed, that era when they were everything to each other , lived like a gang was the ticket to survival and fame and fortune. They took it serious. many of the band were there to party and have a good time, showcase a few shows and then move on to other things. That line up had nothing else to look forward to except making it big...and that was a huge factor. They played often, wrote and reheased as a unit and thier songs got perfected in front of audiences. Mix that with presentation and attitude and no way no how could they have not got the attention they deserved.

Edited October 2, 2013 by rockerman