Why No Release? Simple.

[classicrawker]

It sold about half as much as AC/DC's release in the same year.

Which had all original members, traditional AC/DC sound, promotion, label support, it's tough to compare it to CD. AC/DC's record was actual a very marketable product. CD wasn't, hence the label jumping at the best but deal to make the money back and get out alive.

In other words AC/DC had a more popular product to offer.......and whose fault is that?

Ever think that AC/DC just has a bigger fan base these days mate? They still sell out Stadiums and Arenas here in the U.S. while NuGuns struggles to sell our half arenas here.................

[magisme]

It sold about half as much as AC/DC's release in the same year.

Which had all original members, traditional AC/DC sound, promotion, label support, it's tough to compare it to CD. AC/DC's record was actual a very marketable product. CD wasn't, hence the label jumping at the best but deal to make the money back and get out alive.

Ur such an Axl worshiper...

Do you see me calling him a worshiper? I simply think what he's saying is wrong.

[TeeJay410]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

You can pretty much add the same argument I had for AC/DC and add Rick Rubin.

[Apollo]

It sold about half as much as AC/DC's release in the same year.

Fans are smart enough to understand AC/DC's genius.

Unfortunately, they aren't smart enough to comprehend Axl's.

And albums sales don't matter.......unless we are comparing GnR's sales to bands that sold less than they did, then album sales matter!

Come on man, get with the program.

You do realize that ACDC was sold (and properly pushed) at Walmart and CD was sold at Bestbuy right?

I do.

And I've said that that no doubt helped the first month of album sales.

But what about after that?

What about the 5 years since the album came out? Do you really think there are millions of fans out there that would buy CD if "only they knew it had been released." Because that's basically what you are implying.

After the first month of sales, the Walmart-Best Buy argument no longer holds water.

I live in a city that doesn't have a Best Buy - but I've still purchased three copies of CD.

I live in a city that has a Walmart and I didn't buy AC/DC's album.

Anybody who wanted to buy CD ended up buying it. Maybe not opening week - but after that they did. There aren't millions of people out there wishing they could purchase CD, but unfortunately, they either don't know it was released or they can't figure out where/how to but it now.

And again, I love CD and didn't care for AC/DC's last album. But I'm not going to make excuses for why one sold more than the other. It's not important to me to make excuses or try and convince people that one album is better than the other, or that all people must love all the same music that I do.

I love CD - that's all that matters to me. I don't care if it sold 10 copies of 10 million copies.

[magisme]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

Worldwide?

Yes. DM did 10 milion worldwide.

[classicrawker]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

You can pretty much add the same argument I had for AC/DC and add Rick Rubin.

They are just more popular bands with better product to offer the fans...it really is not that complicated mate ChiDem just was not that good...................

[magisme]

The point is that you said CD sold about as much as its contemporary rock albums. It did not.

[Apollo]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

Worldwide?

Yes. DM did 10 milion worldwide.

But if you take out how many copies it sold in Egypt and Mongolia.....did it still sell more than CD?

[John Bonham]

We're just knocked out

We heard about the sell out

You gotta get an album out

You owe it to the people

We're so happy we can hardly count

If Chinese Democracy was such a success, why isn't there any demand for a follow-up?

[Damn_Smooth]

We're just knocked out

We heard about the sell out

You gotta get an album out

You owe it to the people

We're so happy we can hardly count

If Chinese Democracy was such a success, why isn't there any demand for a follow-up?

Because.

[TeeJay410]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

You can pretty much add the same argument I had for AC/DC and add Rick Rubin.

They are just more popular bands with better product to offer the fans...it really is not that complicated mate ChiDem just was not that good...................

im not arguing good or bad, I just don't think it was the failure it's made out to be.

[Coma16]

It sold about half as much as AC/DC's release in the same year.

Fans are smart enough to understand AC/DC's genius.

Unfortunately, they aren't smart enough to comprehend Axl's.

And albums sales don't matter.......unless we are comparing GnR's sales to bands that sold less than they did, then album sales matter!

Come on man, get with the program.

You do realize that ACDC was sold (and properly pushed) at Walmart and CD was sold at Bestbuy right?

I do.

And I've said that that no doubt helped the first month of album sales.

But what about after that?

What about the 5 years since the album came out? Do you really think there are millions of fans out there that would buy CD if "only they knew it had been released." Because that's basically what you are implying.

After the first month of sales, the Walmart-Best Buy argument no longer holds water.

I live in a city that doesn't have a Best Buy - but I've still purchased three copies of CD.

I live in a city that has a Walmart and I didn't buy AC/DC's album.

Anybody who wanted to buy CD ended up buying it. Maybe not opening week - but after that they did. There aren't millions of people out there wishing they could purchase CD, but unfortunately, they either don't know it was released or they can't figure out where/how to but it now.

And again, I love CD and didn't care for AC/DC's last album. But I'm not going to make excuses for why one sold more than the other. It's not important to me to make excuses or try and convince people that one album is better than the other, or that all people must love all the same music that I do.

I love CD - that's all that matters to me. I don't care if it sold 10 copies of 10 million copies.

From what I understand CD has been out if print in the US for about 2 years now so I'm not sure how they can compete.

I agree, I think the album sold just fine and don't care about sales either. All it needed was airplay and promotion from Axl.

[magisme]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

You can pretty much add the same argument I had for AC/DC and add Rick Rubin.

They are just more popular bands with better product to offer the fans...it really is not that complicated mate ChiDem just was not that good...................

im not arguing good or bad, I just don't think it was the failure it's made out to be.

Perhaps. But that depends on your expectations. If Axl wanted it to sell 20 million like Canter tells us, then, from that perspective, it was an enormous failure.

Yes Magisme, we understand, Axl is fat.

???

[Damn_Smooth]

Yes Magisme, we understand, Axl is fat.

???

Twinkies.

[TeeJay410]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

You can pretty much add the same argument I had for AC/DC and add Rick Rubin.

They are just more popular bands with better product to offer the fans...it really is not that complicated mate ChiDem just was not that good...................

im not arguing good or bad, I just don't think it was the failure it's made out to be.

Perhaps. But that depends on your expectations. If Axl wanted it to sell 20 million like Canter tells us, then, from that perspective, it was an enormous failure.

Yes Magisme, we understand, Axl is fat.

???

Well I would absolutely argue that Axl had unrealistic expectations for reasons aforementioned.

[classicrawker]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

You can pretty much add the same argument I had for AC/DC and add Rick Rubin.

They are just more popular bands with better product to offer the fans...it really is not that complicated mate ChiDem just was not that good...................

im not arguing good or bad, I just don't think it was the failure it's made out to be.

And I agree with you as I think selling 3+ million copies is anything but a flop..................

It sold about half as much as AC/DC's release in the same year.

Fans are smart enough to understand AC/DC's genius.

Unfortunately, they aren't smart enough to comprehend Axl's.

And albums sales don't matter.......unless we are comparing GnR's sales to bands that sold less than they did, then album sales matter!

Come on man, get with the program.

You do realize that ACDC was sold (and properly pushed) at Walmart and CD was sold at Bestbuy right?

I do.

And I've said that that no doubt helped the first month of album sales.

But what about after that?

What about the 5 years since the album came out? Do you really think there are millions of fans out there that would buy CD if "only they knew it had been released." Because that's basically what you are implying.

After the first month of sales, the Walmart-Best Buy argument no longer holds water.

I live in a city that doesn't have a Best Buy - but I've still purchased three copies of CD.

I live in a city that has a Walmart and I didn't buy AC/DC's album.

Anybody who wanted to buy CD ended up buying it. Maybe not opening week - but after that they did. There aren't millions of people out there wishing they could purchase CD, but unfortunately, they either don't know it was released or they can't figure out where/how to but it now.

And again, I love CD and didn't care for AC/DC's last album. But I'm not going to make excuses for why one sold more than the other. It's not important to me to make excuses or try and convince people that one album is better than the other, or that all people must love all the same music that I do.

I love CD - that's all that matters to me. I don't care if it sold 10 copies of 10 million copies.

From what I understand CD has been out if print in the US for about 2 years now so I'm not sure how they can compete.

I agree, I think the album sold just fine and don't care about sales either. All it needed was airplay and promotion from Axl.

It is out of print for a reason mate...as in no demand anymore............

[Bobbo]

CD sold a little over 1/3 of Metallica's release in the same year.

You can pretty much add the same argument I had for AC/DC and add Rick Rubin.

They are just more popular bands with better product to offer the fans...it really is not that complicated mate ChiDem just was not that good...................

im not arguing good or bad, I just don't think it was the failure it's made out to be.

It wasn't technically a "flop" by 2008 standards, but it was indeed a failure. Edited January 4, 2014 by Bobbo

[TeeJay410]

I just feel like people around here have fun with extremes. It doesn't make for a sexy argument to say it was okay and sold decent all things considered.

[Apollo]

It sold about half as much as AC/DC's release in the same year.

Fans are smart enough to understand AC/DC's genius.

Unfortunately, they aren't smart enough to comprehend Axl's.

And albums sales don't matter.......unless we are comparing GnR's sales to bands that sold less than they did, then album sales matter!

Come on man, get with the program.

You do realize that ACDC was sold (and properly pushed) at Walmart and CD was sold at Bestbuy right?

I do.

And I've said that that no doubt helped the first month of album sales.

But what about after that?

What about the 5 years since the album came out? Do you really think there are millions of fans out there that would buy CD if "only they knew it had been released." Because that's basically what you are implying.

After the first month of sales, the Walmart-Best Buy argument no longer holds water.

I live in a city that doesn't have a Best Buy - but I've still purchased three copies of CD.

I live in a city that has a Walmart and I didn't buy AC/DC's album.

Anybody who wanted to buy CD ended up buying it. Maybe not opening week - but after that they did. There aren't millions of people out there wishing they could purchase CD, but unfortunately, they either don't know it was released or they can't figure out where/how to but it now.

And again, I love CD and didn't care for AC/DC's last album. But I'm not going to make excuses for why one sold more than the other. It's not important to me to make excuses or try and convince people that one album is better than the other, or that all people must love all the same music that I do.

I love CD - that's all that matters to me. I don't care if it sold 10 copies of 10 million copies.

From what I understand CD has been out if print in the US for about 2 years now so I'm not sure how they can compete.

I agree, I think the album sold just fine and don't care about sales either. All it needed was airplay and promotion from Axl.

Then temper my comments to just the three years after the release of CD.

My point was that if somebody wanted to buy CD - they ended up buying it. Maybe not the opening release week, but after that.

If Axl would have chosen to promote it, I think the album could have easily sold another million copies.

To be honest, I'm still in shock that it only sold 3.5 million copies and didn't become more relevant in the rock world.

I figured Better would be huge. I thought Street of Dreams sounded like classic GnR and would be a top 10 hit. If you told me that Catcher and Shacklers were both going to chart and do well, I would have said "of course, great songs."

I would have bet money that CD was going to be almost as popular and successful as the Illusions were. I still listen to Better, SOD, Catcher, Shacklers, TIL, TWAT, Prostitute and IRS all the time.

[Bobbo]

It technically sold decent, but it was always going to no matter what.

It failed because the masses either thought it was "meh" or just flat out bad. Completely dropped it as soon as the 09 ball dropped, and as Bonham said, left no demand for a nu follow up. Outside these forums of course.

Why people can't just accept these facts, just enjoy the music they like, and move on already is beyond me.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Bobbo

[Mr. Dude]

I just feel like people around here have fun with extremes. It doesn't make for a sexy argument to say it was okay and sold decent all things considered.

Pick a side and fight to the death.

All things considered I kind of admire groghan and rawkers level of devotion. I don't think I've ever felt as intensely committed to anything in my life. There's no thread, no subject, no discussion that they won't hijack to let you know how much they don't like new GNR or Chinese Democracy. Whenever I see the name pop up in a thread, I don't even have to read it to know what its about.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Mr. Dude

[TeeJay410]

It technically sold decent, but it was always going to no matter what.

It failed because the masses either thought it was "meh" or just flat out bad. And as Bonham said, left no demand for a nu follow up,

Why people can't just accept these facts, just enjoy the music they like, and move on already is beyond me.

I don't disagree with anything you said except for the use of the word failure. I just can't call it a failure after the decent sales, generally positive critical reception, as well as having decently performing single (better did well on its own merit, CD the song has an inflated chart position due to the iTunes release).

The terms of success and failure with the album appears to depend on the narrative one has. Those who view the album as a failure (and I'm no longer speaking to you but in general terms) tend to do so because it provides punishment, a sense of justice for breaking up the band they love. People who view it as a success view it as a vindication for Axl's efforts and all the nonsense he's had to suffer from former band mates and the media.

Basically my posts have been a modest plea to not pick a side for sides sake and try and keep things in perspective.

[Apollo]

I just feel like people around here have fun with extremes. It doesn't make for a sexy argument to say it was okay and sold decent all things considered.

Pick a side and fight to the death.

All things considered I kind of admire groghan and rawkers level of devotion. I don't think I've ever as intensely committed to anything in my life. There's no thread, no subject, no discussion that they won't hijack to let you know how much they don't like new GNR or Chinese Democracy.

So posting on a forum is hijacking a thread?

I've said that CD is the best rock album of the last decade, and that I would love for "new" GnR to release a double album this year. So how is that not liking GnR or CD?

If making a few posts on an internet forum dedicated to a rock band is the most "intensely committed to anything" you've ever done in your life......maybe you need to get out of the house more?

And maybe stop trying to fight and harass people and just chat with other GnR fans about the actual topics?

[Damn_Smooth]

I just feel like people around here have fun with extremes. It doesn't make for a sexy argument to say it was okay and sold decent all things considered.

Pick a side and fight to the death.

All things considered I kind of admire groghan and rawkers level of devotion. I don't think I've ever as intensely committed to anything in my life. There's no thread, no subject, no discussion that they won't hijack to let you know how much they don't like new GNR or Chinese Democracy.

So posting on a forum is hijacking a thread?

I've said that CD is the best rock album of the last decade, and that I would love for "new" GnR to release a double album this year. So how is that not liking GnR or CD?

If making a few posts on an internet forum dedicated to a rock band is the most "intensely committed to anything" you've ever done in your life......maybe you need to get out of the house more?

And maybe stop trying to fight and harass people and just chat with other GnR fans about the actual topics?

No.

[Apollo]

It technically sold decent, but it was always going to no matter what.

It failed because the masses either thought it was "meh" or just flat out bad. And as Bonham said, left no demand for a nu follow up,

Why people can't just accept these facts, just enjoy the music they like, and move on already is beyond me.

I don't disagree with anything you said except for the use of the word failure. I just can't call it a failure after the decent sales, generally positive critical reception, as well as having decently performing single (better did well on its own merit, CD the song has an inflated chart position due to the iTunes release).

The terms of success and failure with the album appears to depend on the narrative one has. Those who view the album as a failure (and I'm no longer speaking to you but in general terms) tend to do so because it provides punishment, a sense of justice for breaking up the band they love. People who view it as a success view it as a vindication for Axl's efforts and all the nonsense he's had to suffer from former band mates and the media.

Basically my posts have been a modest plea to not pick a side for sides sake and try and keep things in perspective.

I think you might be my new favorite poster.

Great job, you've had some of the best posts of the day.