Question about the 2002 era

[BangoSkank]

Hey Marc,

Can you talk a little about what the atmosphere was like in the GNR camp after the Philly riot in ’02 and the tour’s cancellation? No need to go into why Axl wasn’t there, etc. but I was hoping you could describe what Axl’s attitude was like in the months that followed.

Also, how did the rest of the band handle/respond to the tour’s cancellation?

Once again, big thanks for doing this.

Edited January 31, 2014 by BangoSkank

[recklessroad]

I don't really know, Axl didn't talk about it to me and I didn't see him for a while after that.

[Padme]

I don't really know, Axl didn't talk about it to me and I didn't see him for a while after that.

And nobody else told you anything, not even rumors nor theories about it? I had tickets for this cancelled tour. And we never had any kind of explanation.

[themadcaplaughs]

I don't really know, Axl didn't talk about it to me and I didn't see him for a while after that.

And nobody else told you anything, not even rumors nor theories about it? I had tickets for this cancelled tour. And we never had any kind of explanation.

From the little we've heard from people about that era (2003-2005) Axl more or less fell off the face of the Earth so to speak. I remember a big rumor at the time was that he checked himself into a mental health facility to deal with exhaustion. I don't know how true that is however. That guy here who ran EatMySilkworms mentioned that when he met Axl in 2006, Axl specifically mentioned this being an extremely depressing time of his life as he felt he'd been abandoned by the fan base.

Axl's official explanation (from the Philly show in 2012) was that he told his manager to only cancel the first show, but the manager felt he could convince Axl to play the show regardless and never told the venue until the last possible minute (i.e. after the opening band had played). Why the shutdown of the whole tour? It was well known that the 2002 North American arena tour had not been an astounding success (with the notable exception of Madison Square Garden) and Clear Channel (the promoter) was probably anxious to pull the plug on the whole thing.

[Amir]

Madcap, do you have a link to that EatMySilkworms guy's post?

[Padme]

I don't really know, Axl didn't talk about it to me and I didn't see him for a while after that.

And nobody else told you anything, not even rumors nor theories about it? I had tickets for this cancelled tour. And we never had any kind of explanation.

From the little we've heard from people about that era (2003-2005) Axl more or less fell off the face of the Earth so to speak. I remember a big rumor at the time was that he checked himself into a mental health facility to deal with exhaustion. I don't know how true that is however. That guy here who ran EatMySilkworms mentioned that when he met Axl in 2006, Axl specifically mentioned this being an extremely depressing time of his life as he felt he'd been abandoned by the fan base.

Axl's official explanation (from the Philly show in 2012) was that he told his manager to only cancel the first show, but the manager felt he could convince Axl to play the show regardless and never told the venue until the last possible minute (i.e. after the opening band had played). Why the shutdown of the whole tour? It was well known that the 2002 North American arena tour had not been an astounding success (with the notable exception of Madison Square Garden) and Clear Channel (the promoter) was probably anxious to pull the plug on the whole thing.

Yeah I remember hearing some of those rumors around forums at the time. However I find it really hard to believe that Axl would be so open to talk about mental health problems with some random fan. Axl had a long chat with fans in RIR 2001. But he never brought up too much of his personal problems.

[themadcaplaughs]

He didn't mention anything about the mental institution to the fan in 2006, just that he felt really bummed out after the aborted tour and often felt so depressed he'd stay in bed for days. Apparently Axl can be very open when you talk to him in person; the fan in question even mentioned being surprised by how candid Axl was.

[Amir]

He didn't mention anything about the mental institution to the fan in 2006, just that he felt really bummed out after the aborted tour and often felt so depressed he'd stay in bed for days. Apparently Axl can be very open when you talk to him in person; the fan in question even mentioned being surprised by how candid Axl was.

I remember reading that Del was telling Axl to keep quiet the whole time and Axl told him to shut up

[Padme]

Well if the manager thing is true. That´s further evidence that Alan Niven would´ve handled things quite differently. I still find it hard to believe that one very lucky fan got so much personal information from Axl himself. But anyway if Axl was having a breakdown because the fanbase abandoned him. Well... HELLO!!!!!!!!!!! It wasn´t the original band! And there was no album back then! It wasn´t 1986 anymore. 20 years later a lot have changed! Axl can´t expect 50k fans and sold out shows unless it´s a festival like Rock In Rio.

[liers]

I always figured he was completely out of his mind during 2002. He was outright crazy during that time period. He just had an odd feel to him that gave off a weird vibe. I think it was known in advance that Axl wasn't going to show up at Philly. My guess is, as rumored, he wanted the first show cancelled due to poor sales or had something else he had to do that night, and management didn't cancel it.

Wasn't that the show where people said security was increased people were let in late? Or am I thinking of another one?

I can see how he got upset though. He put together his perfect band, and people were still dwelling on Slash and the old guys. If he had actually put the record out in a timely manner, things would've shifted and the band would've been much better received. Even towards the end of the 2002 tour, the new band had began to pick up a good following.

As far as the mental hospital - http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/chicago-sun-times-axl-rose-close-to-checking-himself-into-psychiatric-clinic/

Edited February 3, 2014 by liers

[The Real McCoy]

I always figured he was completely out of his mind during 2002. He was outright crazy during that time period. He just had an odd feel to him that gave off a weird vibe. I think it was known in advance that Axl wasn't going to show up at Philly. My guess is, as rumored, he wanted the first show cancelled due to poor sales or had something else he had to do that night, and management didn't cancel it.

Wasn't that the show where people said security was increased people were let in late? Or am I thinking of another one?

I can see how he got upset though. He put together his perfect band, and people were still dwelling on Slash and the old guys. If he had actually put the record out in a timely manner, things would've shifted and the band would've been much better received. Even towards the end of the 2002 tour, the new band had began to pick up a good following.

As far as the mental hospital - http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/chicago-sun-times-axl-rose-close-to-checking-himself-into-psychiatric-clinic/

The first show in Philly was completely sold out.

[jmapelian]

I don't really know, Axl didn't talk about it to me and I didn't see him for a while after that.

And nobody else told you anything, not even rumors nor theories about it? I had tickets for this cancelled tour. And we never had any kind of explanation.

I was at the Philly show the night of the riot

I always figured he was completely out of his mind during 2002. He was outright crazy during that time period. He just had an odd feel to him that gave off a weird vibe. I think it was known in advance that Axl wasn't going to show up at Philly. My guess is, as rumored, he wanted the first show cancelled due to poor sales or had something else he had to do that night, and management didn't cancel it.

Wasn't that the show where people said security was increased people were let in late? Or am I thinking of another one?

I can see how he got upset though. He put together his perfect band, and people were still dwelling on Slash and the old guys. If he had actually put the record out in a timely manner, things would've shifted and the band would've been much better received. Even towards the end of the 2002 tour, the new band had began to pick up a good following.

As far as the mental hospital - http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/chicago-sun-times-axl-rose-close-to-checking-himself-into-psychiatric-clinic/

Actually, the night before this show they played from what I heard, was the best show of the tour at MSG as I know a few people that were at the show; and the rumor I heard was that he was partying with some strippers back in NYC and he didn't want to play that night as i heard from people in between opening acts that the radio stations were saying he wasn't going to come - but these are rumors and innuendo I suppose

[BangoSkank]

I always figured he was completely out of his mind during 2002. He was outright crazy during that time period. He just had an odd feel to him that gave off a weird vibe. I think it was known in advance that Axl wasn't going to show up at Philly. My guess is, as rumored, he wanted the first show cancelled due to poor sales or had something else he had to do that night, and management didn't cancel it.

Wasn't that the show where people said security was increased people were let in late? Or am I thinking of another one?

I can see how he got upset though. He put together his perfect band, and people were still dwelling on Slash and the old guys. If he had actually put the record out in a timely manner, things would've shifted and the band would've been much better received. Even towards the end of the 2002 tour, the new band had began to pick up a good following.

As far as the mental hospital - http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/chicago-sun-times-axl-rose-close-to-checking-himself-into-psychiatric-clinic/

That's an amalgamation of a million things. First night was sold out, the second night was selling poorly and they were offering tickets for $10. The increased security was from the Canada show (where they knew he was going to be late). Also, as a rule of thumb, I really don't trust anything from Blabbermouth. It's seems like what they do is barely above gossip and they've had a pretty obvious bias against Axl (like pretty much everyone in the press) for the last several years.

It's a shame though. I really dug this time period in Guns. It seemed like Axl had a lot of drive and wanted to take the hard rock GNR sound in a crazy, new direction.

I actually can't believe most of the band stuck around after enduring the critical jabs and the cancelled tour. Hell it took Buckethead two years to leave after that.

[themadcaplaughs]

Buckethead quit in early to mid 2003. It just was not made public until 2004.

[BangoSkank]

Buckethead quit in early to mid 2003. It just was not made public until 2004.

Oh damn, thought it was around the same time as the statement.

[The Real McCoy]

I don't really know, Axl didn't talk about it to me and I didn't see him for a while after that.

And nobody else told you anything, not even rumors nor theories about it? I had tickets for this cancelled tour. And we never had any kind of explanation.

I was at the Philly show the night of the riot

As was I.

[Mastodonny]

My quote feature isn't working but from what I've read Axl was upset that the fan base deserted him but couldn't the fan base argue that he deserted them? You simply can't disappear for years and then expect the world to be waiting with red carpet rolled out.

[BangoSkank]

My quote feature isn't working but from what I've read Axl was upset that the fan base deserted him but couldn't the fan base argue that he deserted them? You simply can't disappear for years and then expect the world to be waiting with red carpet rolled out.

How would the fan base have deserted him with two sold out shows in a row (MSG ---> Philly)?

[ARX77]

For some reason I can read the original question but from the responses it looks like the question is regarding the cancelled 2002 tour.

I have a close friend that worked for clear channel and was in Philly in 2002. He told me clear channel jumped at promoting the tour because they didn't want a competitor to get it. Then with the poor ticket sales in smaller markets and 2 no shows the liability became too much and they

Cancelled the tour. He said in his opinion management might have been willing to keep things going but it was obvious there were issues with Axl and the ticket sales made it not worth contouring.

[Padme]

For some reason I can read the original question but from the responses it looks like the question is regarding the cancelled 2002 tour.

I have a close friend that worked for clear channel and was in Philly in 2002. He told me clear channel jumped at promoting the tour because they didn't want a competitor to get it. Then with the poor ticket sales in smaller markets and 2 no shows the liability became too much and they

Cancelled the tour. He said in his opinion management might have been willing to keep things going but it was obvious there were issues with Axl and the ticket sales made it not worth contouring.

Then why didn´t Clear Channel make a statement explaning their reasons to cancel? That´s what we´re discussing. Nobody gave an explanation at the time. Back in 2002 I heard other people around forums also saying "I have a friend that..." I can understand the smaller market issues. In my case I had tickets for the L.A. show. It was my dream to see them play in the city where everything begun. They should´ve kept the big markets at least.

[jmapelian]

I was under the impression clearchannel was fed up - I guess ticket sales were sluggish cause axl overestimated his importance

[ARX77]

Clear channel did make a statement advising the tour had been cancelled. Seriously why do u think it was cancelled? 2 riots in the first month of the tour due to no shows. The liability was too much to continue. I too had tix to see GnR in tampA which was right around my birthday. I was very disappointed as well.

[themadcaplaughs]

My guess as to why there was no more official explanations was because it all went into litigation fairly quickly. Axl said in 2012 that is why he never discussed it until just recently. Music business is a numbers game. If these shows had been bringing in, say, even half of what the shows on the Use Your Illusion tours were bringing in, they would have gladly kept things going. Instead, the majority of shows were half (if that) full with the notable exception of Madison Square Garden.

Ultimately, I think it's a testament to Axl/GNR's staying power that his career moved on after this. Just about any other musician's career would be sunk frp, aborting a U.S. tour after two cancellations for extremely vague reasons. Yet, in 2006 the band more or less came out the door swinging.

Edited February 9, 2014 by themadcaplaughs