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Why are people crapping on Axl so much these days?


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lol @ people going to GNR shows and discovering them for the first time

Shit thread.

Um? I've been a Guns N' Roses fan since I was born. I've seen every piece of concert footage that's out there of them from 1986 to 2006. Hell, my account on this forum is older than yours. It isn't like I'm new to Guns N' Roses, I just happen to not be 40 years old and have had to grow up with them touring on and off in other countries rather than areas close to me in the US

I haven't the first clue what you're addressing.

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lol @ people going to GNR shows and discovering them for the first time

Shit thread.

Um? I've been a Guns N' Roses fan since I was born. I've seen every piece of concert footage that's out there of them from 1986 to 2006. Hell, my account on this forum is older than yours. It isn't like I'm new to Guns N' Roses, I just happen to not be 40 years old and have had to grow up with them touring on and off in other countries rather than areas close to me in the US

I haven't the first clue what you're addressing.

I think it's his roundabout way of saying he finds you attractive...

OR that because the maternity doctor was blaring Rocket Queen while his mom squeezed him out he knows GNR better than you do.

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Bottom line is, one album in 21 years...

Even Axls worshippers cannot defend that

If someone like Jarmo who can claim to have insider knowledge said 'Look, you have to understand that at this point we are genuinely really lucky that Axl is even out of his house performing. He is so emotionally and mentally damaged and frail from everything that has happened his whole life that he is never going to do the things he (and you) wanted and he's never going to have the career you want. It will be a huge achievement for him if he ever releases another record but it may never happen so don't wait for it. It was never going to be any other way because he is just too messed up and the people around him have to move heaven and Earth just to get him to agree to the little he is doing. Without them he probably wouldn't do anything ever again. So just either be happy that he's still out there and you can see this show or get off the bus'.......

I would say 'Ok, fair enough, I believe you and at this point I accept it.

But they don't say that they: they act like we're un-necessarily nitpicking holes in an otherwise successful and normal career trajectory and what pisses me off the most either with Jarmo or defenders on here is they talk as if had they had a choice, this would be the exact state of affairs they'd want; that it's normal because there are examples of one or two other acts who have stale sets or infrequent releases; that Axl didn't envisage things being the opposite of what they've become.

-

Another thing that's getting really tired is this crap about 50 fans online scattered across the world vs 10,000 at a show. If that's the way you're looking at it I can only assume you've never been part of a fan base that is embraced and engaged by the artist.

Let's flip this bullshit notion on it's head: These people point out that if starting at the next show Axl made half to two-thirds of the set brand new songs and Chinese songs then people would start walking out and the reviews would suck, the word would spread and they'd quickly lose this casual audience they've built over the last ten years. Well they are probably very right because Axl has gotten the audience he deserves and all they want is a fucking jukebox. Congratulations.

So what would happen if if Springsteen or Prince booked consecutive years of shows with the exact same set and clearly couldn't give a shit anymore? There'd very quickly be a revolt and they'd lose a huge chunk of their educated audience who wouldn't put up with being treated like credulous, gormless rock fans with no fucking attention span.

Gah, this shit makes me so angry.

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Bottom line is, one album in 21 years...

Even Axls worshippers cannot defend that

If someone like Jarmo who can claim to have insider knowledge said 'Look, you have to understand that at this point we are genuinely really lucky that Axl is even out of his house performing. He is so emotionally and mentally damaged and frail from everything that has happened his whole life that he is never going to do the things he (and you) wanted and he's never going to have the career you want. It will be a huge achievement for him if he ever releases another record but it may never happen so don't wait for it. It was never going to be any other way because he is just too messed up and the people around him have to move heaven and Earth just to get him to agree to the little he is doing. Without them he probably wouldn't do anything ever again. So just either be happy that he's still out there and you can see this show or get off the bus'.......

I would say 'Ok, fair enough, I believe you and at this point I accept it.

But they don't say that they: they act like we're un-necessarily nitpicking holes in an otherwise successful and normal career trajectory and what pisses me off the most either with Jarmo or defenders on here is they talk as if had they had a choice, this would be the exact state of affairs they'd want; that it's normal because there are examples of one or two other acts who have stale sets or infrequent releases; that Axl didn't envisage things being the opposite of what they've become.

-

Another thing that's getting really tired is this crap about 50 fans online scattered across the world vs 10,000 at a show. If that's the way you're looking at it I can only assume you've never been part of a fan base that is embraced and engaged by the artist.

Let's flip this bullshit notion on it's head: These people point out that if starting at the next show Axl made half to two-thirds of the set brand new songs and Chinese songs then people would start walking out and the reviews would suck, the word would spread and they'd quickly lose this casual audience they've built over the last ten years. Well they are probably very right because Axl has gotten the audience he deserves and all they want is a fucking jukebox. Congratulations.

So what would happen if if Springsteen or Prince booked consecutive years of shows with the exact same set and clearly couldn't give a shit anymore? There'd very quickly be a revolt and they'd lose a huge chunk of their educated audience who wouldn't put up with being treated like credulous, gormless rock fans with no fucking attention span.

Gah, this shit makes me so angry.

Yes, I agree. You get the crowds you deserve. If you play cheap Vegas cashgrabs, you get cheap casual tourists.

I do not like the way the nutswingers sort of, demean the hardcore fanbase. Suddenly the person who only owns the Greatest Hits is more important than the bootleg collecting internet posting long term fan, yet the latter are the people who supported Axl during the lean years. Those are the fans that are most passionate and interested.

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Why do people always assume that the people bitching on the forums are the ones who dont go to the shows, like they havent been to one or more in the last 8 years??

Ive been to almost 10 shows between 2002 and 2012. Mulitple times in the same years...im a huge fan and always stick up for Axl and the band....but guess what, im dissappointed. Being a fan of Axl for 15 years i know what hes capable of performance wise, vocally and physically. And what hes shown from 2012 to this current tour isnt up to his standards. We have a right be be disappointed. Hes literally showing no effort or passion so far on this tour. So u know what, yeah i wouldnt pay to see him right now. But thats not to say that if he turns it around by the States i wont be there. Id totally buy my tickets to see a show this year. But as of now hes not lookin like hes gonna change things.and we have a right to be disgruntled. Just cause im not physically at these shows doesnt mean i dont want my favorite frontman of all time put on an amazing show and sound his best. Im always rooting for Axl. Its just at this point u cant really defend his performances.

wow, very interesting reading there..... no one could argue nor fault that .... what is your view on the lack of passion to his performances ! obviously you can't know for certain, i'm just interested in your view. :-)
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The complaining might be annoying for the diehard Axl fans but he deserves it, IMO.


Worse than the complaining is the constant need to make excuses for every time Axl fucks up. Add to that, the ridiculous double standards by Axl fans. The famous "You can't judge his voice from a YT video unless he sounds great" thing, for example.


And then you have the same fanboys shitting on Slash for doing inteviews, making videos, new songs. They talk about quality over quantity showing they have no faith in Axl, that he's unable to deliver a dozen of great songs every 3-4 years...


It's weird. I'm sure the biggest complainers are the ones who would kill for new albums, are the ones who believe Axl can write great songs in less than 20 years, that this band deserves to shine, etc...


The "Defense Force" are the ones who think Axl is the greatest no matter what. And this is stupid.

Edited by ProstituteComa
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I do not know who is worse, Axl or his blind defenders? Axl defenders act like the critics are weird internet warriors yet, any other major rock artist would also be crucified by their fanbase if they did what Axl is doing. Imagine if Maiden, Neil Young - anyone - spent four years doing albumless Vegas cashgrabs with the exact same show and a shitty voice. Imagine if their management mismanaged things the way, Team Brazil have cocked up proceedings (e.g. the fanclub and the dvd etc). Metallica's fans are actually complaining as we speak, that they are delaying a new album (sound familiar?), yet, they have nothing so bad as GN'R fans as Metallica have released four albums in the same period it has taken Axl to release one, and also do stuff like live albums, dvds etc. which Axl is seemingly incapable of.

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But they don't say that they: they act like we're un-necessarily nitpicking holes in an otherwise successful and normal career trajectory and what pisses me off the most either with Jarmo or defenders on here is they talk as if had they had a choice, this would be the exact state of affairs they'd want; that it's normal because there are examples of one or two other acts who have stale sets or infrequent releases; that Axl didn't envisage things being the opposite of what they've become.

So true. Spot on.

Its incredibly frustrating to see a certain segment of our fanbase bend over backwards to not only defend the inactivity and laziness, but to actually go a step further and say its the optimum set-up.

As you said, if you want to do your best to put lipstick on this pig, hey, have at it. I think its silly, but its your dime.

But to go as far as to actually laud how things are going...you gotta be shitting me. When I bring up how bizarre is that a guy like Ron has been in the band for 8 years and they have yet to write a note together, I'm not looking for an answer that is normal. It ain't, and never will be.

I'm reminded of that old 'Seinfeld' episode where Kramer sells Newman a faulty radar detector and he gets a ticket.

"A radar dectector, as I understand it, DETECTS RADAR!!"

And in our case, I would say "A band, as I understand it, WRITES, RECORDS, AND RELEASES MUSIC!!"

Is this revolutionary thinking?

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And in our case, I would say "A band, as I understand it, WRITES, RECORDS, AND RELEASES MUSIC!!"

Is this revolutionary thinking?

I would disagree with this sentiment if we were talking about The Rolling Stones, The Who, Fleetwood Mac, Led Zeppelin, etc. Hell, even more relevant bands like U2, Pearl Jam, and I guess Metallica, could probably justify touring their back catalogues and 99 percent of people would be fine with this. I think most of those bands have built up enough body of work where, now in their old age, they want to honour their pasts (and hey, make a shit load of money off of it). I get that and I wouldn't begrudge the bands that have put in the work from seeing a return on it.

But GNR doesn't have the back catalogue that these bands have. Nor is it the band that wrote and recorded the material. It's just a circus act meant to pay for one man's retirement. If the classic lineup decided to do what Axl is doing now, I'd have no problem with it. But to keep the name and then do nothing new with it, as though he's forgotten why he fought for the name so many years ago, is absurd. How Axl feels like he doesn't have to validate his power grab for the name is besides me. Chinese Democracy was a good but very late start, but it's far from any legitimate rationalization of why he kept the name. Unless, of course, it was never about artistic concern but just about the almighty dollar.

I think the frustration and anger of most people on a forum like this can be summarized like this: we would support Axl carrying on the GNR name if he actually did something with it. Most of us have spent a majority of our lives defending Axl's actions to those around us - arguing that Axl touring under the GNR name was fine because he's going to do something with it. On that front, he's let everyone down. Moreover, not only has he failed that test but he can't even sing/perform properly. It's one thing to not care about creating and publishing new material; it's another to charge fans whatever they're charging these days and not care about performance standards.

Now we're left with a "band" that hasn't produced jackshit in almost five and a half years (one album in twenty-one years); that rides off the coattails of those who came before them, and has the audacity to argue that this is the best lineup of GNR they have ever known. The rot has become so overwhelming that many, like myself, now just tune in as if this was a 20 year long car crash. Part of me wants to say fuck it and tune it all out because it just isn't worth my time or attention, but another part of me can't help but watch the desecration of something I once held dear. I use to come to forums like this one with hope and faith, now I visit just to marvel at the absurdity and sadness of it all.

Edited by downzy
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Bottom line is, one album in 21 years...

Even Axls worshippers cannot defend that

I think everybody should stop to wait too much from that band, that's the truth. I enjoy what they do when is good, and I try to not have many expectations. I understand the frustration of some fans, what I don't understand is why some people who are not satisfied with the band for a long time keeps to follow GnR so hard on forums and all. I think some people here are seriously masochists!

I'm more interested in GnR past, the classic stuff( I enjoy CD too, tho), I think, maybe is because of that, I don't get so frustrating with the new band, I was never really into it. I still follow GnR but I'm more relaxed about it. i hope they release a new album, but if they don't, I'm cool anyway.

Edited by Miss Paradise
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Because we are very passionate of GnR and what Axl does to the band..Sadly he doesn't give a shit :wacko:

I give Axl credit for touring but other than that his actions gives me the following feeling:

nicolas-cage-laughing.gif

Edited by gunnari
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Why do you care so much about what a few random strangers think on a rock n roll forum?

You also spin a lot of things in your post. Attendance at shows are declining. There is a reason for that.

"Stale" setlist and hits...........can anybody point out where people have said that GnR needs to change their entire setlist? We would just like to see something change. Hardcore lifelong GnR fans want to hear their favorite singer's newest creations. Axl has released one album in the last 20 years, there is NOTHING wrong with fans wanting new music. Why is it OK for you to say the shows are stale and you aren't going....but not OK for other people to say that?

LOL. You really think that GnR shows are "aimed" at people who have never heard of GnR and not for long-time fans?

It's weird how people like you have to twist everything so much.

Personally, I'm extremely thankful for the Mods and the entire organization that is Mygnrforum.com. GnR fans are allowed to share their opinions and the site isn't made up of mindless drones who praise everything Axl does. Why people complain about this is beyond me. At least the "haters/cupcakes/etc" are talking about the BAND that the forum is dedicated to, and not just writing rants about other posters. Think about that.

********

Amir has effortlessly moved into the Top Ten posters of the forum. Well done.

No offense, but did you even read my post? I very clearly state, in like paragraph #2, that criticisms/hopes/desires/etc. are all good in my book. It's the threats to quit the forum or the claims that the band will be over if they don't change things around that I find funny. I'm not sure that is fairly construed as "caring so much" as you put it, I'm just amused that people can consider themselves THAT self-important and be that entitled about things.

And yes, I really do think GN'R shows are aimed at casual fans. Speaking of people twisting things, where did I say the shows are aimed at "people who have never heard of GN'R"? Because that's what you claim I said. That'd be, uh, an interesting opinion to have, but you appear to have just made it up for no reason. But yes, the shows for the most part are aimed at casual fans, not die-hard message board fans. Isn't that quite obvious by now?

Absolutely nothing wrong with fans wanting new music. You're correct. I'd like some too. There's also technically nothing wrong with throwing hissy fits about the lack of said new material. I just find it funny :shrugs:

Edited by MarlaHooch
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Why? Because it's deserved.

See the thread about short-changing fans who bought VIP packages. See the promises of new material, only for that NOT to happen. See Axl's response to GNR's induction to the R&R HOF. See the last four years of stale set lists. See the botched DVD release. See the $150 ticket prices at some of the small venue shows just so Axl doesn't have to cut his guarantee (or cut it by as much as he should).

I don't ever remember Axl promising anything live. And BTW, not going to the Hall of Fame is about as Rock and Roll as you can get. WTF is wrong with you? Were you at the Hall of Fame ceremony? Did you pay for it? Or any of these shows? Were you there? Have you ever been forced to pay for anything from GNR?

Entitlement society lives on! Dope.

If you don't want to pay, don't go, what the fuck is it to you. Some people pay 100k for a baseball card. It is what it it worth to you. I like how you think you should decide what a GNR show is worth to someone else. That is fucking hilarious. Do people call you at home and ask you what they should pay when looking for a car, or seeing a movie?

Please tell us more of what we think, thanks . ;) .

Edited by Gunzen
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Bottom line is, one album in 21 years...

Even Axls worshippers cannot defend that

Defend what? Are we the ones who decide what others do for their livelihood? He has been touring for 20 years. I would love new music, but i am not him, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants, and if I don't like it, tough. Defend a guy because he doesn't do what YOU think he should do? I don't even know that that means?

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Bottom line is, one album in 21 years...

Even Axls worshippers cannot defend that

Defend what? Are we the ones who decide what others do for their livelihood? He has been touring for 20 years. I would love new music, but i am not him, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants, and if I don't like it, tough. Defend a guy because he doesn't do what YOU think he should do? I don't even know that that means?

i don't think anyone literally believes they have a right, as a fan, to dictate axl's actions. you're being hyperbolic. it's certainly understandable for a fan of a musician to expect more than one record in two decades, especially when the musician in question promised multiple albums' worth of material as far back as the late 1990s. it's not like axl disappeared and fans got angry because he decided to quietly retire. the guy kept the band name and justified his actions by repeatedly stating that he planned to move the band forward and release multiple new records. my point being, of course axl doesn't literally owe anyone anything, but it's not unreasonable for a fan of his to be disappointed and to have expected more.

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good ol' gunzen. :lol: missed you.

Sometimes it just kills me, it is so hard to understand why somebody thinks that attending an awards ceremony is somehow their business. Especially since they weren't there. I just do not understand the logic of people expecting complete strangers to run their careers according to how the fans expect him to.

Where does that come from? Well i know, and i have explained it before. Too bored to do it again. I wasn't the next guy that complains Axl hasn't released any new music to tell me his job, and then I am going to tell him how to do it, cause its what i want.

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The guy was a beast for like six years when the band started. So energetic, so captivating, so confident..... Then... The band fell apart but he continued on. Then 2002 - jerseys, braids, the voice, buckethead, robin, the industrial sound... Then a cancelled tour and no album. Then a new tour that was actually kind of cool in 2006 and everything seemed set to go.... Then nothing... Then an album out of nowhere and Axl is MIA... Then nothing... Then the greatest hits tour which keeps on rolling. Man, it's so interesting to me. He sort of asks for the crap he gets given the past twenty years and especially considering what came before it.

The guys life is just so fucking weird and his crazy actions turned from crazy good (and bad) to just crazy bad around 2007 so that's why he gets so much crap from his biggest supporters.

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