Super Duper Alice Cooper

[Guest Len B'stard]

I love the stories he tells about Moonie

[Powerage5]

Guess I'm seeing it tonight in Buffalo instead. The Syracuse showing was cancelled, and I already had tonight off since I was gonna go to a Joey Belladonna gig.

[Zint]

Cool. I think you're going to like it.

[Powerage5]

Okay, just got home.

I enjoyed it, don't get me wrong - but I found it to be the least engaging of Sam and Scott's band-centric documentaries so far. That's not to say it's bad, but I felt like it was almost entirely composed of stories I've heard Alice tell in one way or another over the years. Obviously his cocaine use was one of the bigger revelations - to my knowledge he's never really acknowledged that he got into drugs after his first time sobering up? I'd also never heard about that Hollywood Bowl gig in about '72; very cool story. The coverage on the ACG era is indeed excellent, but I felt that everything after that was a little rushed, bordering on glazed over. I've got to disagree with Zint in that I'm not especially happy with where the documentary ended. I know there's not much of a story to tell after the '86 comeback, but if you went into that documentary knowing little to nothing about Alice, you wouldn't even know he was still around as a performer post-1986.

And just for clarification, I was always under the impression that they'd denied the ouija board story?

I had a good time though, and even with my criticisms, Sam and Scott hands down produce the best music documentaries. Can't wait to get this on Blu Ray, apparently the deluxe edition comes with a few unreleased gigs

[Evan442]

Okay, just got home.

I enjoyed it, don't get me wrong - but I found it to be the least engaging of Sam and Scott's band-centric documentaries so far. That's not to say it's bad, but I felt like it was almost entirely composed of stories I've heard Alice tell in one way or another over the years. Obviously his cocaine use was one of the bigger revelations - to my knowledge he's never really acknowledged that he got into drugs after his first time sobering up? I'd also never heard about that Hollywood Bowl gig in about '72; very cool story. The coverage on the ACG era is indeed excellent, but I felt that everything after that was a little rushed, bordering on glazed over. I've got to disagree with Zint in that I'm not especially happy with where the documentary ended. I know there's not much of a story to tell after the '86 comeback, but if you went into that documentary knowing little to nothing about Alice, you wouldn't even know he was still around as a performer post-1986.

And just for clarification, I was always under the impression that they'd denied the ouija board story?

I had a good time though, and even with my criticisms, Sam and Scott hands down produce the best music documentaries. Can't wait to get this on Blu Ray, apparently the deluxe edition comes with a few unreleased gigs

There is a title card at the end that says "Alice still continues to record and tour as the Alice Cooper character" or something to that effect

[Powerage5]

Okay, just got home.

I enjoyed it, don't get me wrong - but I found it to be the least engaging of Sam and Scott's band-centric documentaries so far. That's not to say it's bad, but I felt like it was almost entirely composed of stories I've heard Alice tell in one way or another over the years. Obviously his cocaine use was one of the bigger revelations - to my knowledge he's never really acknowledged that he got into drugs after his first time sobering up? I'd also never heard about that Hollywood Bowl gig in about '72; very cool story. The coverage on the ACG era is indeed excellent, but I felt that everything after that was a little rushed, bordering on glazed over. I've got to disagree with Zint in that I'm not especially happy with where the documentary ended. I know there's not much of a story to tell after the '86 comeback, but if you went into that documentary knowing little to nothing about Alice, you wouldn't even know he was still around as a performer post-1986.

And just for clarification, I was always under the impression that they'd denied the ouija board story?

I had a good time though, and even with my criticisms, Sam and Scott hands down produce the best music documentaries. Can't wait to get this on Blu Ray, apparently the deluxe edition comes with a few unreleased gigs

There is a title card at the end that says "Alice still continues to record and tour as the Alice Cooper character" or something to that effect

True. I'm not saying it had to go up through the current day, but maybe at least Trash or Hey Stoopid? To me Constrictor through Hey Stoopid are all kind of one story about his rise back to commercial success.

[Zint]

Honestly. I was surprised they didn't go to the smash hit single Poison.

Perhaps, they are considering a part 2, the metal years.

The fact that everybody has heard it all before was the dilemma they had to consider, I think that's why it's not a year by year factoid docu.
They focused on the band's history yes, but with an underlying theme of "at what cost to one man's mortality".
I think going beyond 1986, really, would have been.. new album with a few good songs, supporting tour heavy on the AC group classic tunes and mythology.
See, post '86 material is all well and good, but why does anyone care about it? Well, it's because of what the majority of this movie is about.
Hence the focus of the movie.
They really didn't have to go beyond '86. If someone who didn't know much about Alice watched the docu and was curious about Alice beyond '86, well, there's this neat thing called Google. I think they were wise to not go from '86 to 28 years later, because you know, honestly, it's cool and all but as far as a docu goes, it's really more of the same (imo).

Apart from that, I knew about the Hollywood Bowl gig, I have a wee bit of rough bootleg footage of it, but man, they had some cool pro shot footage of that gig!

Edited May 1, 2014 by Zint

[Powerage5]

All good and valid points.

[Zint]

Did they show the q+a with Alice after the screening?

[Powerage5]

Did they show the q+a with Alice after the screening?

Yeah

[ronaldo9]

Damn, looks like they have the wrong date for the theater I was going to on the documentary's website. The documentary's website says it's scheduled for this Thursday, but when I went to check the theater's site for the time, it says it already played last week. Guess I'll just have to look forward for the DVD release.

[Powerage5]

Damn, looks like they have the wrong date for the theater I was going to on the documentary's website. The documentary's website says it's scheduled for this Thursday, but when I went to check the theater's site for the time, it says it already played last week. Guess I'll just have to look forward for the DVD release.

Same thing happened with me; I went to check if I could get advance tickets for Syracuse and it was outright cancelled. Luckily I happened to check that on the day of the Buffalo screening.

[Zint]

Did they show the q+a with Alice after the screening?

Yeah

People started to leave at that point at my screening, it was more of the same old same old.

[gunsfanoldie]

They aren't playing the movie anywhere near me on the dates I am in those respective areas but I can't wait to see this. The Alice Cooper Group era is phenomenal, and they really were one of the best bands of all time. An unparalleled run of albums. It still bothers me that original band has never toured together again.

I could see the complaints about the movie being a little too late at this point. If you are an Alice fan, the stories about the old days, and pretty much everything Alice related, has been told to death. Still is good to see them immortalized by a more than capable director. His documentaries have been outstanding and this would by far be my favorite band he's tackled thus far.

[Powerage5]

Did they show the q+a with Alice after the screening?

Yeah

People started to leave at that point at my screening, it was more of the same old same old.

Our theater only had like 30 people it it had maybe half cleared out by that point. I have to admit, I never knew the whole point of the Eighteen crutch until that Q&A

[gunsfanoldie]

Did they show the q+a with Alice after the screening?

Yeah

People started to leave at that point at my screening, it was more of the same old same old.

Our theater only had like 30 people it it had maybe half cleared out by that point. I have to admit, I never knew the whole point of the Eighteen crutch until that Q&A

I don't know if I'll see the Q&A. What is the point of it? I just figured it was a funny ironic statement to use it when the song is about being young, but maybe I'm way off.

[Powerage5]

Did they show the q+a with Alice after the screening?

Yeah

People started to leave at that point at my screening, it was more of the same old same old.

Our theater only had like 30 people it it had maybe half cleared out by that point. I have to admit, I never knew the whole point of the Eighteen crutch until that Q&A

I don't know if I'll see the Q&A. What is the point of it? I just figured it was a funny ironic statement to use it when the song is about being young, but maybe I'm way off.

Pretty much - he said it was something along the lines of he's singing this song about being in his youth and his prime, but he's this old fart on stage belting it out.

[Zint]

When did the crutch start showing up in the stage show?

Off hand I can trace it to at least 1979.

[Powerage5]

When did the crutch start showing up in the stage show?

Off hand I can trace it to at least 1979.

First I remember seeing it is The Nightmare Returns, when did he have it in '79? I don't remember him using it on The Strange Case Of Alice Cooper. Admittedly, I've seen very little unofficial Alice footage from more than 10 years ago or so, so I'm by no means an expert.

[Zint]

[Powerage5]

Yeah, that's definitely the earliest I've seen it

[gunsfanoldie]

OK, so I know I'm literally a year too late with this, but I finally JUST got around to seeing this documentary I've been trying to see for a year now. It was on Palladia HD, which was nice, so I was able to DVR it and watch it at home with my TV hooked up to my normal stereo receiver to fully appreciate the Coop.

Here's what I'm gonna say: I thought it was both excellent and a missed opportunity. I'll start with the positives. I thought the pacing was extraordinary and they kept it incredibly interesting. I've really enjoyed this guy's work, and he did another great job here in terms of using the photos and footage to tell the story (I believe as someone mentioned its like the Stones documentary where its just voices and no video interviews, which I actually like). I also thought his use of the music and footage was just fantastic and really displayed this band at the height of their power. I thought the other opinions from people like Taupin and Dee Snider were a bit underused, but I see how they were just there to pepper in some extra stuff and again the use of music was really great. Juxaposing Elton John's All The Young Girls Love Alice with Alice Cooper footage? Thats a stroke of genius there. And seriously, I can't praise the pacing enough. Perfect footage used for when these guys were explaining things and I was laughing and really engaged with stories I've heard a hundred times being a fan.

The faults: not many, but definitely noticeable ones. First of all, where the FUCK was Michael Bruce. His omission was just unforgivable, and I haven't found a reason for it and I can't really think of a logical one. There's the thought that he wasn't into it, which is fine, but there's literally not one mention of his name in the entire film. The guy friggen wrote or co-wrote all or most of their biggest hits. And he is friends with these guys (they all played together at the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame), so I don't see how he doesn't participate in something literally every other living person involved with this band did. Seriously, I can't find a reason for his complete omission, and honestly, the fact that they didn't even mention his name made it seem intentional, which is again weird because they have all said they are still good friends.

Moving past that, which was my biggest complaint, it was not as focused on the Alice Cooper Band as I thought. It was a worry of mine, and it didn't ruin the movie, but my whole thought of doing an Alice documentary is you can't neglect that he took the name and has been solo for 40 years now. I had heard so much that it was about the band, which in fairness it was most of the time, but the last 40 minutes was basically just Alice which leads to my next issue. The documentary, as a whole, was a bit pedestrian. There were great tidbits and they got all the famous stuff that had to be said in there, but I would have appreciated more insight about the actual records and recording which I feel was glossed over. My worry was you can easily do a 2 hour documentary about just that classic era, and when you don't you're bound to leave stuff out. It still worked, but it was noticeable. Like, there's almost absolutely no mention of the Billion Dollar Babies album or tour, and that was the height of their career. I thought it could have been handled better, and if that meant just being about the original band I would have preferred that.

In the end, its a great viewing and I don't want the criticisms to detract from the overall greatness of the film. I REALLY enjoyed it and that can't be stressed enough. I think in the end, it misses being "definitive" but its as close as we'll get. I do think many other recent documentaries were much better. Crossfire Hurricane about the Stones, the expansive Eagles documentary. And what's funny is this is far and away the most interesting subject to me that Sam Dunn has tackled and I thought it was his worst yet. And not to say it was bad at all, but it was hard for me to find faults with the Rush and Iron Maiden documentaries and I love Alice so much more than them. But again, its well done and its worth a viewing. A good overview of the band as an aspiring filmmaker myself, I watched it saying "yes, this is exactly what I'd love to do for a band I love." Could have been better, but a solid 7 out of 10 from me here. I have a BS day at work tomorrow so I'm looking forward to rereading this thread for everyone else's reviews. Sorry for resurrecting a nearly year long dead thread.

[dalsh327]

When they make documentaries for a theatrical release, they're making it for an audience that watches documentaries and might know a hit or two, might only know Alice Cooper from Wayne's World, or remember him as a talk show fixture in the 70s. I always see these movies as "who is he, what does he do, and why should I care". The 4 hour documentaries for cable like Dylan, George Harrison or Eagles (and the upcoming Sinatra) was able to put it out on cable and take time exploring the subject.

The Stones' Shine a Light and 25 x 5 were also documentaries, 25 x 5 is more like a shortened Beatles Anthology and Shine A Light did a lot of flashbacks in between modern day Stones performing.

Crossfire Hurricane was more immersive, taking you back in time to experience it.

Back to Alice -

It's worth getting the Shep Gordon "Supermensch" documentary Mike Myers made last year, it's almost like a companion to this movie. I think the scene where Alice meets Shep in the hotel room was reused in "Supermensch".

They left stuff out like Joe Perry and Alice renting a house during Aerosmith's exile and Alice sick as hell, drying out and seeing ghosts. I think it was on Celebrity Ghost Stories, but would have fit in with the movie.

Michael Bruce's omission:

"Michael Bruce is still alive and he is sort of a controversial omission from the movie but it was difficult to try and get an interview with him for various reasons and trying to wedge in the presence or story of someone into the film whom you don’t have access to just feels weird and only the most hardcore fan who somehow doesn’t know how to Wikipedia is going to care." - Reg Harkema

(supposedly the bone of contention was a book Michael Bruce wrote about the band back in the mid 90s).

Village Voice: I noticed that Michael Bruce, one of the two founding guitarists and the keyboardist of the band, wasn't in the film.

Alice Cooper: Yeah, you know, it's like trying to find Izzy Stradlin. Certain guys disappear, and you see them once in a while. He lives in Mexico. Impossible to get in touch with. Or somebody'll say he's in Spain now. I would have loved to have had his input on it also, but to pin a guy down and say you're going to do 20 hours of talking to these guys, we just couldn't do that with Mike Bruce. Neal [smith] and Dennis [Dunaway] wanted to talk.

Edited March 28, 2015 by dalsh327

[gunsfanoldie]

Yeah you make some good points. Another documentary I just thought of that I really liked was Foo Fighters. It really explored each album and went into a lot of stuff I didn't know (which I guess is either because there's a lot less myth about them than Alice). But again, it really brought you to the time and kept you interested. Great pacing there as well, and the only flaw was that the last half hour was just a promo for their new album at the time (which I didn't mind because the album was amazing). But really showed their rise and struggles and they told it like it was.

Definitely have to see Supermench. Been wanting to just like this one, and now that I've seen this I feel its best to dive into Supermench quickly while I'm still in that mode. And the only thing I'll say on Michael Bruce is I guess I understand but I'm still not fully convinced. Again, he's played with the band before, he was there for the Hall Of Fame induction, he played several promo shows around that time. Obviously its not impossible to reach him, but I guess the Izzy Stradlin comparison is valid. I also understand if he didn't want to talk, but no mention of him at all was a bit much. I think his lack of any voice interviews or name mentions or archive interviews was a pretty glaring omission. And one last thing I thought of this morning was I was upset that they didn't really dig into any of the strife that broke them apart. There's like a passing mention from Neal that they wanted to do a song and Alice and Bob shot them down, but then it just kind of turns into Alice instead of the band. Not that those guys really did anything afterward, but still something about them being hurt and cast aside as more of a focus I think would have been nice and warranted. I've seen that very well done in other documentaries too, I just can't think of them right now. I think my biggest peeve storywise was that they start rushing once we hit the Babies tour, and gloss over that album and huge tour, the breakup and rush right into solo Alice whereas the first half was really well paced.

Last thing I'll say is I agree with what was said earlier in this thread. I think it ended at the exact right time. I was shocked they didn't go to Poison, but they didn't need to. The point was made that he made his comeback, and everything since is when he became the icon he is. Similar to the Stones one that ends at Tattoo You. Its when these guys get cemented as legacies, and I think its a good end point. If you weren't gonna end right when the band broke up, they ended at the best logical place. Any earlier and there wasn't really a happy ending.

[dalsh327]

Grohl made "Back and Forth" because he had seen the Petty documentary and didn't want to make a 4 hour movie years from then, even though "Sonic Highways" is I think 8 hours.

It's hard to say whether it's because they needed to edit it down to make it a decent length to sit in a movie theater, or they intentionally paced the documentary that way to make you feel how much of a blur that time in their lives was, it might be a little of both. They can always put out a "Director's Cut" if they were trying to fit all the rare footage in, but usually that's what bonus discs are for, and some of them are a treasure trove for fans.

The Billion Dollar Babies tour was put out on DVD and Alice did commentary for the video so there's a little something extra to that.