When Exactly did Axl Rose Stop Trying?

[Nick85]

The obvious decline in Axl's stage performance, physical appearance as well as the unexplained lack of the follow up Chinese Democracy (which he promised at this very forum) more than tell us that Axl has put Guns N' Roses on autopilot, at least for the foreseeable future.

But when, in your opinion, did this begin?

I'm of the mind that this happened sometime in mid 2010, right around the time his twitter account was "hacked" effectively cancelling the summer tour. The energy and optimism that up to that point was apparent at every show seemed to be somewhat vacuumed out and, save for glimpses and a few standout performances, has never really returned.

There were rumors that it was at this stage that the label declined to put out the next record, despite Axl's wishes. Was there possibly something to that, or perhaps was this the Chinese Democracy re-release falling through?

Band members now seem tired and cranky, angrily referring fans to management for information regarding the next album. Guns has apparently become a bit of an inconvenient side project, especially for Bumblefoot, DJ and Richard who seem to resent having to tour with Guns and having to put their real passion projects on hold. Whereas previously, it seemed like GNR was their priority. Hell, Bumblefoot is publicly counting down to when he can go back to what he really wants to be doing. Full-on tours and hopes of future releases have seemingly taken a backseat to low risk South American tours and Vegas residencies.

I have a feeling that once the upcoming residency is done, we may be in for some dark times. I hope I'm wrong.

Edited April 29, 2014 by sofine11

[D-GenerationX]

I'm of the mind that this happened sometime in mid 2010, right around the time his twitter account was "hacked" effectively cancelling the summer tour. The energy and optimism that up to that point was apparent at every show seemed to be somewhat vacuumed out and, save for glimpses and a few standout performances, has never really returned.

This might well be. The time frame makes sense.

Although I have never totally bought into the idea Axl had another album ready to go a mere 18 months after his last one. I don't see where that sudden burst of inspiration and work ethic came from.

And I certainly never believed the Twitter hack routine.

[Yesterdays-Civil-War]

I think 2011 was good; we got Civil War and Estranged back. I think from 2012 onward it's been on autopilot.

There were rumors that it was at this stage that the label declined to put out the next record, despite Axl's wishes. Was there possibly something to that?

It's labeled as a non-starter. That story isn't too far-fetched in the world of GN'R. The rumor I remember seeing was Axl came to the record company with an album and they said no. If that's true the speculation would be whether it was the CD remixes or if it was CD II.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl clearly let himself go physically between 2010 and 2011.

Its hardly a stretch to suggest that was not due to depression.

Look at Christina Aguilera. She got HUGE. And when? After she experienced her first real taste of failure. Album tanked, she was in that movie with Cher that flopped, she got divorced. There were all sorts of reports she was drinking all the time and generally down on life.

That could easily be Axl.

[Nick85]

Yeah, the premise of the label outright declining the next album never sounded right to me. It's a Guns N' Roses album, they would've made money. Perhaps it was "negotiations" for the next release that fell through? Would explain why it's been all quiet on the Western Front regarding new music.

[D-GenerationX]

Yeah, the premise of the label outright declining the next album never sounded right to me. It's a Guns N' Roses album, they would've made money. Perhaps it was "negotiations" for the next release that fell through? Would explain why it's been all quiet on the Western Front regarding new music.

And they have already paid the money for the work to be done.

What the hell business sense does it make to not try and recoup something on that? Who was advising them? Slash and Duff?

[Nick85]

We know they were tinkering with re-releasing Chi Dem in 2010, and went so far as to outline a whole "re-launch" plan. Maybe that's what fell through?

[MrSoftie]

Personally I think there was a medical setback of some sort after 2010s excellent rasp.. Maybe a refused record too. 2011 was "autopilot" I think.

2012 he still had some shows full of passion, he clearly gave a fuck. Vegas shows too. The first half of the 2013 tour was horrific, no fucks given.. Towards the end he started putting his all into songs like Nightrain. Then nothing much until Duff returned.

[D-GenerationX]

We know they were tinkering with re-releasing Chi Dem in 2010, and went so far as to outline a whole "re-launch" plan. Maybe that's what fell through?

Which, was just the worst idea ever.

You allegedly have all these other songs. Yet you want to re-release the same batch that made zero impact on the marketplace?

[Guest NGOG]

I'm of the mind that this happened sometime in mid 2010, right around the time his twitter account was "hacked" effectively cancelling the summer tour.

I take it you weren't at any shows during the latter part of 2010, because as most Europeans here would acknowledge, Axl couldn't have been more on top of his game.

Having been at the show just after Reading and Leeds, I can tell you it was the most electric performance I've ever been part of.

[Nosaj Thing]

Hard to tell. What do you mean by "stop trying"? Trying to release a record? Trying to keep sounding good? Trying to not be overweight and out of breath every 5 seconds?

If your question was regarding new music, I was going to say the minute Buckethead left but he would not have left if Axl was eager to write and release new material. Then I was gonna say that after Finck left but he gave us a good 2009-2010 tour altogether, with minor fuck-ups here and there. In my opinion, nuGuns was done when Buckethead left, that's true, but Finck departure killed every little expectation of nuGuns ever functioning again.

Truth is, after Rio 2011 everything has been terribly bad. Not only because Axl is completely shot, but because no effort is being made, I mean, people appreciate the 2001-2002 shows (me included) because Axl was trying. His voice was shot but he was trying, you could see he was giving 101% on stage and he really wanted nuGuns to work but at the same time, if he truly wanted his new band to work, why he didn't release an album before 2004? It's hard to understand.

It's also hard to understand that if he did stop trying when Buckethead left, then why was the reason for him to be in so great shape vocally and physically for the 2006-2007 tour? I think Axl's first intention (after Buckethead departure) was to release CD in 2006, just as he stated the interview that followed VMA. It didn't happen for whatever reason.

Man, this is really hard to put together, so many unanswered questions.

[Nick85]

Yeah, especially over how EVERYONE, Axl included, fawned all over the other unreleased tracks whose genius idea was it to NOT put the next record out ASAP? What stooges are advising Axl?

You have another album worth of killer tracks? Cool. Put em' out dude. Move the band forward. This isn't rocket science....

Edited April 29, 2014 by sofine11

[Yesterdays-Civil-War]

We know they were tinkering with re-releasing Chi Dem in 2010, and went so far as to outline a whole "re-launch" plan. Maybe that's what fell through?

So, is the supposed relaunch why Best Buy started selling CD at $1.99 a copy then?

[D-GenerationX]

I'm of the mind that this happened sometime in mid 2010, right around the time his twitter account was "hacked" effectively cancelling the summer tour.

I take it you weren't at any shows during the latter part of 2010, because as most Europeans here would acknowledge, Axl couldn't have been more on top of his game.

Having been at the show just after Reading and Leeds, I can tell you it was the most electric performance I've ever been part of.

I would put the actual date as 10.2.2011.

Yes, he laid some of the groundwork for that during the year (gaining the weight, not caring about his voice) but the Rio show is the first time we saw it before our eyes.

[Nosaj Thing]

You have another album worth of killer tracks? Cool. Put em' out dude. Move the band forward. This isn't rocket science....

Is that easy, no? But honestly, those *supposedly* killer tracks were written by people that are no longer in the band. Don't you think the new guys (sans Ashba) deserve their moment to shine? If your answer is yes, then the new question should be: Why the fuck is not happening?

Edited April 29, 2014 by Nosaj Thing

[Nick85]

For the record, the only way I was ever behind a "re-launch" was if the second album came with it as a double release. A decent new single that was actually promoted right this time could've moved units, and iTunes sales.

Now, in 2014, the best we can hope for is that someone moves heaven and earth to convince Axl to put out the other songs ala The General, Atlas etc. and hope he actually gets behind that release.

Edited April 29, 2014 by sofine11

[Guest NGOG]

You have another album worth of killer tracks? Cool. Put em' out dude. Move the band forward. This isn't rocket science....

Ask yourself this: What if Interscope don't want to be associated with what is essentially Chinese Democracy 2? Do you think Axl could just override that reluctance?

[Gordon Comstock]

I think Axl wanted to re-launch Chinese with the 2 alternate artworks and remixes, finally giving it the release he'd envisioned with proper lyrics, notes and everything, and the label shot it down. Why would they want to re-release an album that tanked in the US the first time? The scenario that makes the most sense to me is that Axl wanted to "close" the CD era, the label said fuck that, put out something new, they bickered and Axl eventually gave up on the idea.

[Nick85]

NGOG - I honestly don't know. Personally, I look at it like this: He's Axl Rose, still one of the most influential and viable living rock stars. If both he and they get behind it, it doesn't matter who's on the songs or when they were recorded, it'll sell. Ah, but that's the key isn't it? It requires BOTH of their full involvement and support. Something we didn't get with Chi Dem, despite what could have been a HUGE single, "Better".

[appetite4illusions]

I sense it was just before Chinese Democracy was released.

Axl saw that the label had no desire to promote it and that Azoff was just in it to get the reunion wheels spinning. Didn't he claim from the stage that "this was just about the worst fucking year of my life."? In a life full of turbulent times, that's quite the declaration.

I think he knew that the project he sweat, bled and cried for wasn't going to go over with the splash he felt it deserved. A part of him may have resigned himself at that point. He disappeared for quite a while and I don't think it was the kind of vacation where you kick your feet up.

[D-GenerationX]

You have another album worth of killer tracks? Cool. Put em' out dude. Move the band forward. This isn't rocket science....

Ask yourself this: What if Interscope don't want to be associated with what is essentially Chinese Democracy 2? Do you think Axl could just override that reluctance?

That doesn't make a lick of sense. For what reason? Spite?

Do you honestly think one record from one artist that most people stopped thinking about 20 years ago really moves them one way or another?

[Guest NGOG]

Ask yourself this: What if Interscope don't want to be associated with what is essentially Chinese Democracy 2? Do you think Axl could just override that reluctance?

That doesn't make a lick of sense. For what reason? Spite?

Because commercially speaking, Chinese Democracy didn't perform anywhere as good as hoped. Because Axl, business-wise, is notoriously difficult to negotiate with. Because a contemporary label like Interscope only want to be associated with a certain sound and image. Look at Interscope's list of clients, how many GNRs are on there?

It really isn't as easy as Axl saying 'OK, time to release a new record'.

Edited April 29, 2014 by NGOG

[MrSoftie]

If Interscope don't want it why haven't they gone to someone else? Surely they can't be contracted to a company that doesn't even want their records?

Edited April 29, 2014 by MrSoftie

[D-GenerationX]

If Interscope don't want it why haven't they gone to someone else? Surely they can't be contracted to a company that doesn't even want their records?

Interscope would never let them out because of the .0000001% chance he reunites the band.

[Guest NGOG]

If Interscope don't want it why haven't they gone to someone else? Surely they can't be contracted to a company that doesn't even want their records?

They're contracted to UMG, and UMG know that old GNR = big $.