When Exactly did Axl Rose Stop Trying?

[Nick85]

Like I said, I just can't see a scenario where in 2013 or 2014 Axl Rose sends the label 12-14 finished tracks, and they tell him to go fuck himself. Do negotiations need to follow and stipulations and marketing plans have to be presented? Of course, especially after Chinese Democracy. But are they laughing and telling him to hit the road? No fucking way. Someone's just not doing their part.

[MrSoftie]

If Interscope don't want it why haven't they gone to someone else? Surely they can't be contracted to a company that doesn't even want their records?

They're contracted to UMG, and UMG know that old GNR = big $.

And how do the contracts work? Do they sign on for X years?

[D-GenerationX]

If Interscope don't want it why haven't they gone to someone else? Surely they can't be contracted to a company that doesn't even want their records?

They're contracted to UMG, and UMG know that old GNR = big $.

And how do the contracts work? Do they sign on for X years?

Number of releases. You could always wait out a calendar.

[Guest NGOG]

Like I said, I just can't see a scenario where in 2013 or 2014 Axl Rose sends the label 12-14 finished tracks, and they tell him to go fuck himself.

There are many legitimate criticisms of MSL, but the narrative he produced in 2011 has proven very accurate.

On that basis, why were GNR prevented from releasing a record in 2010? If you hand a record into a label, and it doesn't get released, whose fault is that?

[D-GenerationX]

Like I said, I just can't see a scenario where in 2013 or 2014 Axl Rose sends the label 12-14 finished tracks, and they tell him to go fuck himself.

There are many legitimate criticisms of MSL, but the narrative he produced in 2011 has proven very accurate.

On that basis, why were GNR prevented from releasing a record in 2010? If you hand a record into a label, and it doesn't get released, whose fault is that?

Well, do you just throw up your hands and pout about it?

Life is a constant negotiation.

[username]

I'm tempted to say somewhere between CD being released against his wishes (or at least not in the way he wanted it out) and losing Finck. He might've sounded decent in 2010, but I think this was it.

[Nick85]

I'm starting to second guess that the label shot down the second album in 2010 as MSL (and no one else) reported. Why? Because, thanks to MSL, we know that as of early 2011 they were still trying to re-release Chinese Democracy. I would wager that the 2nd album would not come before that.

[Guest NGOG]

I'm starting to second guess that the label shot down the second album in 2010 as MSL (and no one else) reported. Why? Because, thanks to MSL, we know that as of early 2011 they were still trying to re-release Chinese Democracy. I would wager that the 2nd album would not come before that.

Have you heard of something called a plan B?

[username]

MSL is a fat pathetic attentionwhore who just tries to get publicity over GnR's back. If you want to call anything a cancer to the band, it's people like him. He might've been right more than once, but I still don't believe anything he says until it's proven, just based on his poor character.

Edited April 29, 2014 by username

[Nick85]

Sure, but we have no reason to believe that a plan-B was in place, other than the word of literally the most untrustworthy GNR fan on the internet. Whereas, thanks to that same man, we know that as of early 2011 they were still trying to re-release Chinese. It just doesn't make much sense.

[Apollo]

Like I said, I just can't see a scenario where in 2013 or 2014 Axl Rose sends the label 12-14 finished tracks, and they tell him to go fuck himself.

There are many legitimate criticisms of MSL, but the narrative he produced in 2011 has proven very accurate.

On that basis, why were GNR prevented from releasing a record in 2010? If you hand a record into a label, and it doesn't get released, whose fault is that?

Would it be the label's fault if the record was crap? Or if it was the remix CD album? An album with three different Better remixes, Blood In The Water, etc. And Axl said "and just like last time, I'm not going to promote the album.

Would that be the label's fault still?

*********

And why do people keep saying that the label failed to promote CD? Were you living on a deserted island during 2008?

*******

Without Axl doing any promotion and a terrible first single, CD still sold over 4 million copies. In today's climate, any label in the world would love to have a band that could sell 4 million albums for every release.

********

So just so I'm straight.

The label is preventing another CD.

Slash is preventing the DVD.

Clearly GnR needs a better management team then. Because other bands manage to release cds and dvds.

[Black Sabbath]

He still seemed to have some sort of drive in 2011 and even into 2012. 2013 was a totally different year though, and we all know what this year is like.

I'd be happy if we even got 2011 Axl back.

[The_Universal_Sigh]

We know they were tinkering with re-releasing Chi Dem in 2010, and went so far as to outline a whole "re-launch" plan. Maybe that's what fell through?

Which, was just the worst idea ever.

You allegedly have all these other songs. Yet you want to re-release the same batch that made zero impact on the marketplace?

I really don't understand how Axl thought this was a good idea. I sort of understand why no one told him it was a bad idea, ya know, who he's surrounded by and everything. This is literally one of the dumbest ideas he has had since jerseys and braids and rerecording appetite.

[Nick85]

Agreed, that the 2011 U.S. tour had some great moments. At that point, the states tour was a LONG time coming, so I believe he put on his A-Game for many of those shows. I would be more than happy to see him re-capture some of that energy, both vocally and performance wise.

[Guest NGOG]

Would it be the label's fault if the record was crap?

And why do people keep saying that the label failed to promote CD? Were you living on a deserted island during 2008?

Without Axl doing any promotion and a terrible first single, CD still sold over 4 million copies. In today's climate, any label in the world would love to have a band that could sell 4 million albums for every release.

Interscope specializes in mainstream pop and rap, why do you think they would be overly excited about getting behind a follow-up to Chinese Democracy? Go and read about the way Trent Reznor was treated by Interscope; they don't have any interest in records which aren't steeped in popular culture (money, sex and idolism).

I didn't make that point; so I'm not sure why you're including it in your response to me.

I don't see the logic in referencing the performance of a comeback record that was released nearly 6 years ago. Circumstances are drastically different.

Edited April 29, 2014 by NGOG

[Nick85]

How may more (if any) albums does GNR owe Geffen/Interscope?

If he's free to go whenever, would Axl even be able to take the unreleased songs with him, since technically they paid for their recordings?

[Apollo]

Would it be the label's fault if the record was crap?

And why do people keep saying that the label failed to promote CD? Were you living on a deserted island during 2008?

Without Axl doing any promotion and a terrible first single, CD still sold over 4 million copies. In today's climate, any label in the world would love to have a band that could sell 4 million albums for every release.

Interscope specializes in mainstream pop and rap, why do you think they would be overly excited about getting behind a follow-up to Chinese Democracy? Go and read about the way Trent Reznor was treated by Interscope; they don't have any interest in records which aren't steeped in popular culture (money, sex and idolism).

I didn't make that point; so I'm not sure why you're including it in your response to me.

I don't see the logic in referencing the performance of a comeback record that was released nearly 6 years ago. Circumstances are drastically different.

I don't take a label's interaction with ONE artist and automatically assume that is the norm for every other artist. I don't know the backstory between Trent and the label. I do know his last two albums for them were a concept album that wasn't like their previous albums.

NIN released - under Interscope - records in 2005 and 2007 (album and remix album).

They went from selling 4 million, to 2 million on the next album to not even going platinum and one not even going Gold.

A record label isn't your personal friend. They are a BUSINESS. To say in business, they have to make money. If they don't make a profit, then they can't function, meaning they can't support bands. And they close their doors and everybody loses their job.

Is a label at fault for wanting to sell music that makes money? Do you download any music without paying for it? One song? One album? Do you do 'test runs" on songs to see if you like them before you decide if you buy the album or not?

If Nine Inch Nails were still selling 4-5 million copies of each album, then Interscope would have jump at the chance to release a NIN album every year. Regardless of the content of their songs. Do you think Interscope would rather have an album that sold 2843 copies but was chocked full of pop culture or would they take a rock album that featured zero pop culture references, but sold 5 million copies.

Labels want artists who will make them money. Don't fault the label for that, fault fans of your favorite band that aren't talking with their wallets.

I think it is funny how some people fault labels for trying to make a profit. Do you also hate every other company in the world that tries to stay in business? You know what happens when companies don't make money? They close down and everybody loses their job.

Produce albums that will sell millions of copies.....you'll have no problem finding a label that will support you.

"Oh, the label doesn't support us anymore. Evil evil evil labels.".......ya, couldn't be because your last album sold 75,000 copies. I'm sure that had nothing to do with their decision. They are FOOLS for not supporting you and instead investing their resources behing Lil J-T-Money whose last album sold 6 million copies.

[Nick85]

You know, I may be oversimplifying, but I really believe that the chances of us getting a new album, let's say in the next year or so, really depends on Axl agreeing to meet the label half way in terms of marketing and promotion.

But before ANY of that can happen, he needs to have 12-14 songs mixed, mastered & ready to go. Sure, they have plenty of tracks to pick from, but have they been prepped for release? Does anyone see that happening soon? Unless A LOT of stuff is going on under the radar with Caram in terms of production, I'd say chances are slim.

Edit: Also, the fact that a good portion of the lineup have been acting sullen and depressed about the state of GNR does not bode well for anything on the release front happening in the foreseeable future. If that were the case, I would imagine they would at least pretend they were happy for the sake of maintaining decent PR leading up to a release. Wouldn't that be the professional thing to do?

Edited April 29, 2014 by sofine11

[maynard]

Guys, it's Axl Rose, if the label was really such a pain in the ass to release and promote a new album, Axl has lawyers and money to change, or at least, try to change that. Guy loves legal battles. This same label invested millions of dollars on CD, they are not evil, they are not the Devil. They might be a pain in the ass, but they simply can't stop Axl from releasing music unless Axl has unrealistic expectations from them, which I believe he does.

But yeah, keep blaming Slash, the label, life, Buckethead.... It's NEVER Axl's fault for some nutjobs around.

[Mendez]

If it's of any significance, Interscope's and UMG's websites don't have GNR listed under their artists. (Unless I managed to pass over it)

[Nick85]

You have to wonder: Did the the Chinese Democracy release and subsequent commercial failure paired with the Azoff stuff completely destroy any desire Axl had to put out the next record? During the Axl chats, while Chinese was still doing well on the charts despite the complete lack of real promotion, he was keen to put the next record out the following November. What the hell changed? He got his official real deal Chinese Democracy tour, many times over in fact, so he wasn't ultimately waiting for that. What then?

[RandallFlagg]

After the 2010 tour cause he'd performed to the absolute of his ability and had only two directions, regurgitate or rejuvenate. Rio was the downward spiral, 2012 was good but nothing progressing really. He still gives it his all even if he can't perform at his optimum for whatever reason, onstage that is, he could prepare better and make headway for newer things but there's either a plan, it's spontaneous or he's comfortable with never doing anything new again and CD is his final remark.

[gunsfanoldie]

2007. I think he realized then he didn't have to try so hard. But then Chinese Democracy came out to nothing and he just thought "forget it". He may have been good in 2010, but I don't think he was "trying" or really aiming to prove something. He was just good.

[maynard]

Hard to tell... RIR 4 probably.

[Amir]

Guys, it's Axl Rose, if the label was really such a pain in the ass to release and promote a new album, Axl has lawyers and money to change, or at least, try to change that. Guy loves legal battles. This same label invested millions of dollars on CD, they are not evil, they are not the Devil. They might be a pain in the ass, but they simply can't stop Axl from releasing music unless Axl has unrealistic expectations from them, which I believe he does.

But yeah, keep blaming Slash, the label, life, Buckethead.... It's NEVER Axl's fault for some nutjobs around.

He's had heaps of legal battles, and they've clearly taken their toll on him. I think the worst in recent years was the deal he had to cut with Azoff to give him a cut of tour revenue even though Azoff did fuck all in helping with the CD Tour and was trying to get a reunion going behind Axl's back.

I do think they're trying to get the nuGNR name out there with things like the Vegas DVD, Heaven and Hell Fest, and the Golden Gods Awards, but it seems there's always an obstacle in the way (Slash, corrupt Mexican governors, and Axl's own lack of vocal/fitness preparation). He's not totally paranoid when he says that there are people that actively want nuGNR to fail so that a reunion can come about.

You can see in interviews he's shifted from talking about the next album being done to writing new music with this line-up and releasing a mix of ChiDem-era stuff and nununuGNR tracks.

The art doesn't come first like it used to or like he claims it does, though. He's not an angry street urchin passionately proclaiming Victory or Death any more, he's supporting a whole family now. He's not gonna take any financial risks at this point, especially for an album he does not believe will perform well commercially.