When Exactly did Axl Rose Stop Trying?

[Pedrolg]

Somewhere around 2010/11. Rio 4 was pivotal - that was the date when everyone went, ''what the fuck happened?'' I actually think it might be the day he hired Team Brazil.

Definitely. Back then, when the 2010 tour was over I was expecting a better Axl Rose for Rio 2011.

It was a very 'what the fuck?' moment for me and my friends.

A few days ago, being new to the forum, I took a stroll through 2010/2011 threads. The atmosphere here in 2010 was so fucking positive, and aside from the professional full time haters, nearly everybody was really blown away by GNR shows.

Then I got to 2011 threads, circa RIR, and saw how shocked everybody was at that performance. I got a feeling that after such a great year, it was expected that RIR would be the ultimate platform to show the world GNR was back and kicking ass. And to be honest, a 2010 level performance would have been enough to do that. I have friends who are casual fans of GNR and had that impression that Axl was finished since the end of the 90's. I showed them clips from 2010 and they were blown away.

Even then, I recall seeing many posts at that time (including a few by you, Nosaj) with an optimist outlook, as if it was obvious that Axl would get fully back on track quickly. It's a bit heartbreaking to see where that road has led.

[Nick85]

Obviously, in the 11 months he took off between the Abu Dhabi show in Dec 2010 & the RIR4 show in Oct 2011, there was a colossal downward spiral of some sort taking place behind the scenes. His voice was a shadow of what it was only a year earlier, and his weight ballooned a good 20-30 pounds. It was shocking for so many reasons.

[RandallFlagg]

Most of the GNR fans who aren't caught in a blind love or hate cobweb give a truthful observation of what goes on, Axl has a ridiculously loyal and rabid fanbase considering his silence and rare output, they will let their disappointment know if things aren't good enough and celebrate the guy's talent and undeniably high ceiling when it is reached, he doesn't owe or have to prove jack shit with his history but this new GNR deal was his own burden and he carried it damn hard for fifteen years, we know he has some fire left, it's just getting it back with some progressive fuel... which I can't see this vegas thing doing, too much in another comfort zone.

[maynard]

Just imagine Estranged brough back to the set but with 2010's Axl. Shame they decided to play it too late, Axl's voice was already gone.

[Nosaj Thing]

Somewhere around 2010/11. Rio 4 was pivotal - that was the date when everyone went, ''what the fuck happened?'' I actually think it might be the day he hired Team Brazil.

Definitely. Back then, when the 2010 tour was over I was expecting a better Axl Rose for Rio 2011.

It was a very 'what the fuck?' moment for me and my friends.

A few days ago, being new to the forum, I took a stroll through 2010/2011 threads. The atmosphere here in 2010 was so fucking positive, and aside from the professional full time haters, nearly everybody was really blown away by GNR shows.

Then I got to 2011 threads, circa RIR, and saw how shocked everybody was at that performance. I got a feeling that after such a great year, it was expected that RIR would be the ultimate platform to show the world GNR was back and kicking ass. And to be honest, a 2010 level performance would have been enough to do that. I have friends who are casual fans of GNR and had that impression that Axl was finished since the end of the 90's. I showed them clips from 2010 and they were blown away.

Even then, I recall seeing many posts at that time (including a few by you, Nosaj) with an optimist outlook, as if it was obvious that Axl would get fully back on track quickly. It's a bit heartbreaking to see where that road has led.

Yeah, unbeknownst to most of you, new members, I fully supported Axl before Rio. Maynard aka ProstituteComa was what we now know as "Axl nutter, blind follower". See, things changed and not precisely because we wanted to.

[Pedrolg]

Knowing the reasons for the change, regardless of accepting them as valid, would make it much easier to deal with it. It's obvious that Axl, his bandmates, Beta, hell, even someone like Jarmo who lurks around the band might know what really happened.

I'd take the "he fucked himself up in 2010 theory", but then, there is Philadelphia 2012 and other indications that he didn't. I'd also take the "he doesn't put enough effort into it", but I've seen him trying hard and failing lately. It's maddening, really. And I think Axl has no clue how supportive his fans would be if he actually has something that is limiting his performance and talked about it.

[maynard]

Yup. Until RIR 4 I was totally pro-Axl, made fun of Slash, liked DJ Ashba... It's not that I want or like to be negative. Not my fault Axl and his band have been shit for years now. Cringe-worthy shit, in all aspects.

[Nosaj Thing]

Knowing the reasons for the change, regardless of accepting them as valid, would make it much easier to deal with it. It's obvious that Axl, his bandmates, Beta, hell, even someone like Jarmo who lurks around the band might know what really happened.

I'd take the "he fucked himself up in 2010 theory", but then, there is Philadelphia 2012 and other indications that he didn't. I'd also take the "he doesn't put enough effort into it", but I've seen him trying hard and failing lately. It's maddening, really. And I think Axl has no clue how supportive his fans would be if he actually has something that is limiting his performance and talked about it.

Whatever those reasons are, I can't grasp how Axl would let himself go to the extreme to be overweight and out of breath. I mean, if you're a professional artist, the least you can do is take care of yourself. Vocally, let's say you did kill your vocal chords in 2010 or you had a throat surgery or whatever, that wouldn't mean that you will need to put extra effort to focus on your performance since your voice is not going to be as good as it used to? You can sound Mickey all you want, as long as you don't need to skip an entire verse because you need air, you know?

Those are things that make me think he doesn't care anymore.

[RandallFlagg]

Knowing the reasons for the change, regardless of accepting them as valid, would make it much easier to deal with it. And I think Axl has no clue how supportive his fans would be if he actually has something that is limiting his performance and talked about it.

100% agree

[gunnari]

RIR 2011---->

[Nick85]

I agree with the sentiments that, in terms of his voice, if there is a legitimate reason that he cannot display the same force and rasp that he did 06-10, then there's really not much he can do about it, and even deserves our understanding. I cannot, however, feel sympathetic when witnessing him skipping entire verses, weezing and croaking out lyrics (not to mention toning down his stage performance significantly) because he's out breath due to being just so damn far out of shape.

This is a multi-millionaire who has literally every means at his disposal to get in shape and keep up his stage performance. It's hard to look at Axl now and not feel like he's slammed the brakes on giving a fuck.

Just look at this below video, and tell me he wasn't an absolute beast. This was less than 5 years before the shameful RIR4 performance. What the hell happened to this guy?

Edited April 30, 2014 by sofine11

[Mindray11]

Bridge School.

[username]

Until RIR 4 I was totally pro-Axl, made fun of Slash, liked DJ Ashba..

See, I don't get this. You say it like you stopped making fun of Slash and liking Ashba when you gave up on Axl? I really don't see how they're even remotely related. It's not like it's a package deal.

[GnRDuff1]

I forgot I liked You Could Be Mine. Vicious, that version is.

[maynard]

Until RIR 4 I was totally pro-Axl, made fun of Slash, liked DJ Ashba..

See, I don't get this. You say it like you stopped making fun of Slash and liking Ashba when you gave up on Axl? I really don't see how they're even remotely related. It's not like it's a package deal.

A series of things made me respect Slash more and dislike Ashba/Axl. Too lazy to list them, but you're right, not a package deal.

[SR_GR]

I would say he is always trying to give his best. Everyone has nights when they are

little less enthusiastic about performing, but even then he is trying (and manages)

to give his best vocal performance and a great experience for the audience.

There has been a couple (yes only a couple) of nights when he has not been well.

He was definitely, and more than usually of course, trying then to give his best,

but if your throat is not working normally there is nothing you can do.

Some people have the kind of respiratory system which is more prone to asthma,

infections, flus and allergies. If I remember right he had asthma already when he

was quite young?

I have watched a family member struggle with respiratory problems for quite some

years now. She does not smoke or drink alcohol, eats very healthy, exercises as

much as she can, slim, no allergies, no infections, no history of asthma, no mold or

anything like that found from her home, it is just a mystery. She has had the best

doctors examine her and she keeps on trying all kinds of medications.

What I am trying to say is that Axl has had problems with his voice only a few times

when he was not well, he must be fit to be able to perform for 3 hours and nobody

here knows what kind of health problems he might have in general.

Raspy or less raspy voice, Axl just has that very rear stadium filling voice.

Axl’s voice, great songs, the professionalism of everyone involved: musicians,

sound and light persons, stage builders etc. make the concerts the best live

rock experience you can have.

[Bumble's Bridge Pickup]

Axl’s voice, great songs, the professionalism of everyone involved: musicians,

sound and light persons, stage builders etc. make the concerts the best live

rock experience you can have.

Everyone except Axl

[robin2002]

Something definately happened after the World tour and before RIR, throat surgery has been mentioned, and the more I think about it the more I think that may have been a factor, or the factor in his weaker voice. In terms of the drive he has seemed to have lost I still definately think he lost it when Robin left - someone mentioned earlier and I think they nailed it by saying Robin was Axls Randy Rhodes, and loosing him dented Axls confidence - I also think he's probably realised that as good these newer guys are at playing the songs (apart from DJ obviously lol) that he just doesn't see the potential in them at writing a new album as he did with Robin and Bucket. So playing it safe is all he wants to do and maybe he's happy with that, just a shame that all of us who supported through the dark periods and defended Axl and his new band have been left with just the 1 album to show for our near 20 years of patience and support.

[DieselDaisy]

Two important dates pertaining to the disintegration of Axl:

In March 2009, Ashba was made lead guitarist of Guns N' Roses, repositioning, what had been hitherto a circus arty band, into a Vegas cockrocker act.

In December 2012, Team Brazil took over management thus completing their complete legal, psychological and social control over W. Axl Rose. Their victory was complete: Guns N' Roses were now owned by a Brazilian toilet cleaner.

[Nick85]

Diesel Dazey, while I wouldn't put that quite as bluntly, I agree that Team Brazil (AKA Beta & Son) taking over GNR cannot be ignored as another important turning point. Say what you will about previous managers, but their goals were ALWAYS to get new GNR music out, some obviously more successful than others.

What we now have, is a team of power hungry family members who are content to let Axl rest on his laurels, remain completely unmotivated, and do little more than book low risk Vegas residencies and South American tours, which serve as little more than extended vacations for the family where they can bleed Axl dry and continue their lavish lifestyles unchallenged.

[Jordan Rose]

If it turns out Axl had polyps on his vocal cords, I hope some of you would have the balls to apologize.

for what? Singing is his job

Don't be coy. People have said vicious, horrid, blisteringly disrespectful things about Axl and the cause of his voice. Now I admit, Axl might be in some form of denial about his voice. But what if the cause of his towelie voice is because he had operations on his vocal cords to remove polyps or nodules? If that turns out to be the case, then all the people who said his towelie voice is because he doesn't care or isn't trying should have the cojones to apologize for being such pricks about it. S'all I'm sayin.

What a load of horseshit. You can SEE he isn't friggin trying. Like someone has already said in this thread, his voice was comparatively weak in 2001-2002 yet he was running around the stage without being drenched in gimmicks, not wearing sunglasses for the WHOLE fucking show and making eye contact with the audience.

If his terrible 2014 vocals are a result of his voice genuinely being fucked then that should give him even MORE reason to get in shape and put on a show instead of hiding behind gimmicks and barely moving around.

[Nick85]

Agreed. Say what you will about his voice in 2002 but the man was an animal onstage. Now he just bobs around the stage and occasionally sways. You have to attribute the drastic downplaying of his performance to his recent weight gain.

[Jordan Rose]

Somewhere around 2010/11. Rio 4 was pivotal - that was the date when everyone went, ''what the fuck happened?'' I actually think it might be the day he hired Team Brazil.

Definitely. Back then, when the 2010 tour was over I was expecting a better Axl Rose for Rio 2011.

It was a very 'what the fuck?' moment for me and my friends.

A few days ago, being new to the forum, I took a stroll through 2010/2011 threads. The atmosphere here in 2010 was so fucking positive, and aside from the professional full time haters, nearly everybody was really blown away by GNR shows.

Then I got to 2011 threads, circa RIR, and saw how shocked everybody was at that performance. I got a feeling that after such a great year, it was expected that RIR would be the ultimate platform to show the world GNR was back and kicking ass. And to be honest, a 2010 level performance would have been enough to do that. I have friends who are casual fans of GNR and had that impression that Axl was finished since the end of the 90's. I showed them clips from 2010 and they were blown away.

Even then, I recall seeing many posts at that time (including a few by you, Nosaj) with an optimist outlook, as if it was obvious that Axl would get fully back on track quickly. It's a bit heartbreaking to see where that road has led.

THANK YOU. You've encapsulated perfectly why so many of us were absolutely gutted and even distraught watching the Golden Gods. It just felt like another nail in the coffin.

And thank you for rebutting the lie that too many blind cocksuckers on here perpetrate that people were supposedly negative back in 2010 and 2006-2007 and it's all rose-tinted glasses and that we'll all be saying how great 2013 and 2014 were in 5 years time. Idiots and enablers watching and wanking while Rome burns.

Just imagine Estranged brough back to the set but with 2010's Axl. Shame they decided to play it too late, Axl's voice was already gone.

Yup. And only one Twat with no good recording. No Prostitute or Rhiad.

Hell, he could have taken of Locomotive, Breakdown and even Coma and done it better than the 90s and I mean that seriously. The guy from Rosie and Nice Boys in London 2010 could have done anything.