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Things go from really bad to a lot worse in Iraq (and Syria)


Georgy Zhukov

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We'll see what Iran can do. I have a feeling Obama is done about hearing how the U.S. needs to stop policing the world. If we don't do it, obviously no one else will...and then this happens....so now we get blamed for not doing something.

Maybe this is the wake up call the world needs. Either accept U.S. imperialism or live with the consequences of what happens without it.

Please be kidding. The majority of the world is tired of the US 'helping' out.

No offense, but the US sees itself entirely different than the rest of the world does.

Who authorized you to speak on behalf of the rest of the world?

We'll see what Iran can do. I have a feeling Obama is done about hearing how the U.S. needs to stop policing the world. If we don't do it, obviously no one else will...and then this happens....so now we get blamed for not doing something.

Maybe this is the wake up call the world needs. Either accept U.S. imperialism or live with the consequences of what happens without it.

Please be kidding. The majority of the world is tired of the US 'helping' out.

No offense, but the US sees itself entirely different than the rest of the world does.

The US only help out if someone threatens the status of the USD as reserve currency/petrodollar.

yeah they have their own economic and geopolitical interests everywhere, what a surprise

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Who authorized you to speak on behalf of the rest of the world?

We'll see what Iran can do. I have a feeling Obama is done about hearing how the U.S. needs to stop policing the world. If we don't do it, obviously no one else will...and then this happens....so now we get blamed for not doing something.

Maybe this is the wake up call the world needs. Either accept U.S. imperialism or live with the consequences of what happens without it.

Please be kidding. The majority of the world is tired of the US 'helping' out.

No offense, but the US sees itself entirely different than the rest of the world does.

The US only help out if someone threatens the status of the USD as reserve currency/petrodollar.

yeah they have their own economic and geopolitical interests everywhere, what a surprise

It's not a surprise to me, but I just don't like to pretend they're doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They're doing it mainly for themselves. (Not saying other countries are any different.)

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We'll see what Iran can do. I have a feeling Obama is done about hearing how the U.S. needs to stop policing the world. If we don't do it, obviously no one else will...and then this happens....so now we get blamed for not doing something.

Maybe this is the wake up call the world needs. Either accept U.S. imperialism or live with the consequences of what happens without it.

Please be kidding. The majority of the world is tired of the US 'helping' out.

No offense, but the US sees itself entirely different than the rest of the world does.

Who authorized you to speak on behalf of the rest of the world?

Oh come on.

You should come to Europe, pick a random country and ask 100 people what they think about the US.

A lot of Americans are really full of themselves. And their government has been :facepalm: for ages now.

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Guest Len B'stard

Maybe this is the wake up call the world needs. Either accept U.S. imperialism or live with the consequences of what happens without it.

I cant believe you said that, so thats what its all about, is it, thats whats really behind the 'spreading democracy' bullshit, 'accept imperialism?' Whats scary is yous aint even denying the shit anymore.

Personally I'd rather the consequences, better to die in defence of your liberty than 'accept imperialism'.

You wanna think about those terms next time some suicide bombers blows the shit out of some poor bastards somewhere.

Edited by sugaraylen
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We'll see what Iran can do. I have a feeling Obama is done about hearing how the U.S. needs to stop policing the world. If we don't do it, obviously no one else will...and then this happens....so now we get blamed for not doing something.

Maybe this is the wake up call the world needs. Either accept U.S. imperialism or live with the consequences of what happens without it.

Please be kidding. The majority of the world is tired of the US 'helping' out.

No offense, but the US sees itself entirely different than the rest of the world does.

Who authorized you to speak on behalf of the rest of the world?

Oh come on.

You should come to Europe, pick a random country and ask 100 people what they think about the US.

A lot of Americans are really full of themselves. And their government has been :facepalm: for ages now.

Im from Europe, thank you

Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Baltic countries now have the US as the only ally against Putin.

So far Obama has been a shitty ally but he's the only ally we have, as EU are a bunch of corrupt impotents, UN is a farce and Nato is obsolete

and as long as Western Europe understands the shit is getting real, guess who they gonna ask for help?

on topic: i think in Iraq the US will have no other choice but to strike. but im not sure it will improve the situation in there in a long run

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Maybe this is the wake up call the world needs. Either accept U.S. imperialism or live with the consequences of what happens without it.

I cant believe you said that, so thats what its all about, is it, thats whats really behind the 'spreading democracy' bullshit, 'accept imperialism?' Whats scary is yous aint even denying the shit anymore.

Personally I'd rather the consequences, better to die in defence of your liberty than 'accept imperialism'.

You wanna think about those terms next time some suicide bombers blows the shit out of some poor bastards somewhere.

The arrogance is astounding isn't it? Makes me think of the following quote from Hunter S. Thompson

We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the whole world, a nation of bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are not just Whores for power and oil, but killer whores with hate and fear in our hearts. We are human scum, and that is how history will judge us. No redeeming social value. Just whores. Get out of our way, or we’ll kill you. Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush? They are the same ones who wanted to have Muhammad Ali locked up for refusing to kill gooks. They speak for all that is cruel and stupid and vicious in the American character. They are the racists and hate mongers among us; they are the Ku Klux Klan. I piss down the throats of these Nazis. And I am too old to worry about whether they like it or not. Fuck them.

Hunter S. Thompson

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Guest Len B'stard

Whats funny is i always thought that those of the American public that supported this shit were like...yknow, they meant well with it, they really thought it was a case of spreading democracy, i didnt think there was a cross-section of that populus that was of the 'accept imperialism' mentality, thats actually seriously scary, that supposedly good decent civilised people could think like that, Americans of all people, to whom liberty means so much.

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"And then when our cubs grow, we'll show you what war is good for"

- One Day as a Lion


These events in Iraq is basically the result of a generation at war.

Yup.


Just leaving that stuff behind, pulling out... Now it feels like we're in a Germany after World War I but before World War II situation.

Edited by Snake-Pit
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Whats funny is i always thought that those of the American public that supported this shit were like...yknow, they meant well with it, they really thought it was a case of spreading democracy, i didnt think there was a cross-section of that populus that was of the 'accept imperialism' mentality, thats actually seriously scary, that supposedly good decent civilised people could think like that, Americans of all people, to whom liberty means so much.

You're giving this country way too much credit. It's populated by a bunch of incompetent morons.

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Guest Len B'stard

Whats funny is i always thought that those of the American public that supported this shit were like...yknow, they meant well with it, they really thought it was a case of spreading democracy, i didnt think there was a cross-section of that populus that was of the 'accept imperialism' mentality, thats actually seriously scary, that supposedly good decent civilised people could think like that, Americans of all people, to whom liberty means so much.

You're giving this country way too much credit. It's populated by a bunch of incompetent morons.

Perhaps im a fool but i refuse to believe that, i think the fundamental principles of the American national character are wholly honourable.

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Are you talking about 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' Lenny?

Those aren't principles anymore.

Life and Liberty. Gone. What life and liberty? We work more than any other country, we incarcerate more than any other country, and we kill more than any other country.

Pursuit of Happiness? Fuck that. Smoke a joint in Louisiana and that's life in prison buddy.

These are buzz words. They have no meaning whatsoever. Make no mistake though, they serve their purpose quite well. Because as long as people believe this shit, people will continue to accept the degrading quality of these 'principles'.

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Guest Len B'stard

Are you talking about 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' Lenny?

Those aren't principles anymore.

Life and Liberty. Gone. What life and liberty? We work more than any other country, we incarcerate more than any other country, and we kill more than any other country.

Pursuit of Happiness? Fuck that. Smoke a joint in Louisiana and that's life in prison buddy.

These are buzz words. They have no meaning whatsoever. Make no mistake though, they serve their purpose quite well. Because as long as people believe this shit, people will continue to accept the degrading quality of these 'principles'.

Those yeah but also the like...this is gonna make me sound like a dreamy little wet tissue but...America seems to have a wonderful morality, i think it gets distorted somewhat but at the heart of it its as pure a sentiment as the human animal is capable of i think. I mean, surely the idea of those principles are that they are not just something that exists by default, you struggle for them and struggle to maintain them and that within that struggle and what it teaches you is where the substance behind those values lies.

America ain't George W Bush and Oprah to me...it's Jimmy Stewart and Kerouac.

Edited by sugaraylen
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Ask Netcat :scared:

IF Russia was a real superpower, not a "gas station run by a mafia" and IF there was a substantial part of people in the US who sincerely hated democracy and were ready to fight and die for the lofty ideals of totalitarianism, like no civil rights, no freedom of speech, no free market, corruption, racism and other adorable stuff Russia is proud of, then it would be an option to discuss

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Guest Len B'stard

Ask Netcat :scared:

IF Russia was a real superpower, not a "gas station run by a mafia" and IF there was a substantial part of people in the US who sincerely hated democracy and were ready to fight and die for the lofty ideals of totalitarianism, like no civil rights, no freedom of speech, no free market, corruption, racism and other adorable stuff Russia is proud of, then it would be an option to discuss

So as long as your totalitarianism is subtle and well cloaked in the right kind of rhetoric then its OK?

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Are you talking about 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' Lenny?

Those aren't principles anymore.

Life and Liberty. Gone. What life and liberty? We work more than any other country, we incarcerate more than any other country, and we kill more than any other country.

Pursuit of Happiness? Fuck that. Smoke a joint in Louisiana and that's life in prison buddy.

These are buzz words. They have no meaning whatsoever. Make no mistake though, they serve their purpose quite well. Because as long as people believe this shit, people will continue to accept the degrading quality of these 'principles'.

Those yeah but also the like...this is gonna make me sound like a dreamy little wet tissue but...America seems to have a wonderful morality, i think it gets distorted somewhat but at the heart of it its as pure a sentiment as the human animal is capable of i think. I mean, surely the idea of those principles are that they are not just something that exists by default, you struggle for them and struggle to maintain them and that within that struggle and what it teaches you is where the substance behind those values lies.

America ain't George W Bush and Oprah to me...it's Jimmy Stewart and Kerouac.

"There's nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America" - Bill Clinton

It's like saying North Korea is a country full of evil, brainwashed crazies...they're not.

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Ask Netcat :scared:

IF Russia was a real superpower, not a "gas station run by a mafia" and IF there was a substantial part of people in the US who sincerely hated democracy and were ready to fight and die for the lofty ideals of totalitarianism, like no civil rights, no freedom of speech, no free market, corruption, racism and other adorable stuff Russia is proud of, then it would be an option to discuss

So as long as your totalitarianism is subtle and well cloaked in the right kind of rhetoric then its OK?

no :lol: and i never meant to say that

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Whats funny is i always thought that those of the American public that supported this shit were like...yknow, they meant well with it, they really thought it was a case of spreading democracy, i didnt think there was a cross-section of that populus that was of the 'accept imperialism' mentality, thats actually seriously scary, that supposedly good decent civilised people could think like that, Americans of all people, to whom liberty means so much.

There's some of that, but mostly we truly believe in our hearts that we're better than everyone else. It's scary.

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netcat, on 13 Jun 2014

here's an interresting article on this subject, but im sure "great minds" who think the US should only mind it's own business won't bother readind because tl:dr

Superpowers Don't Get to Retire

What our tired country still owes the world

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117859/allure-normalcy-what-america-still-owes-world

but i'm afraid Obama is hopeless in that regard

That is an understatement if there ever was one,

Obama squandered great sacrifice by our brave men and women, all for his political gain.

What he lacks in forward thinking is only matched by his lack of resolve

He has no clue what to do now.

Edited by shades
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Obama squandered all of the great sacrifice by our brave men and women, and all for his political gain.

What he lacks in forward thinking is only matched by his lack of resolve

He has no clue what to do now.

That's what happens when you put those mouthy negroes in charge.
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Obama squandered all of the great sacrifice by our brave men and women, and all for his political gain.

What he lacks in forward thinking is only matched by his lack of resolve

He has no clue what to do now.

That's what happens when you put those mouthy negroes in charge.

Yeah, I knew it was just a matter of time before Shades chimed in with his usual enlightened contributions.

Look, unless the U.S. was and is willing to make a Korea-like military commitment (and even then it's questionable), this is the natural outcome of the 2003 invasion. Iraq is not a natural country as it exists today; it was created less than a hundred years ago by the British for imperial purposes. Like the rest of the Mid East, boundaries have no reflection of ethnic/religious populations. It's why most mid-east countries are ruled by the minority over the majority. The system (relatively) worked so long as those regimes had the authoritarian means to impose complete control over their "national" populations.

Iraq is a state wherein three nations exist. Kurds in the North, a mix of Sunnis and Shiites in the centre, and a Shiite majority in the South. Once you impose democracy and remove the binding force that was the Saddam dictatorship, no amount of diplomacy is going to keep things at bay for long. So long as you had PM Maliki oppressing the Sunni minority that had long been the governing force in Iraq, hell was the natural outcome.

There's been a lot of finger pointing by Obama critics who will argue that Bush won the war while Obama is in the process of losing it. Nonsense. It was always going to be a situation prone to division and mass violence. Unless new boundaries are drawn up along sectarian lines, the state of Iraq will forever been in flux. You can't introduce liberty and democracy into a country where the respective populations want nothing to do with one another. The U.S. left Vietnam with a trained 1.5 million man army and all the tanks and missiles the country's military brass could hope for. What good did any of it do in the face of widespread desire by the people of Vietnam to support Ho Chi Minh. The same is happening in Iraq, except almost in a reverse sort of way. Maliki and his governing coalition have not substantiated themselves enough to the diverse populations within Iraq. Hence nobody feels any loyalty to it. No amount of diplomacy or U.S. troop presence is going to change that dynamic. Even had the Obama administration been more engaged in extending the SOFA in 2011, thereby allowing for a small contingency force of 10k troops, the governing bodies of Iraq didn't want it and weren't willing to accept the basic tenet of any SOFA (immunity for U.S. personnel from local prosecution under Iraqi law). And even if the SOFA had been extended, what good would it have done? If Maliki was already starting to act like an authoritarian thug with over a 100k American troops present, what leverage would the U.S. had with 10k troops? It took an influx of 30k troops (on top of the 100k U.S. forces already present) to scale back the violence in 2006-2007. If anyone believes that a 10k contingency force could solve the problems facing Iraq today they're simply deluding themselves.

Edited by downzy
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