Glam Rock and Hair Metal appreciation

[Iron MikeyJ]

As for Van Halen being a "hair band," these are my thoughts....

Van Halen were clearly the next band in line after Cream, Zeppelin, and other 60's and 70's bands were on the way out. As a matter of fact, both of those bands are VH's biggest influences. They were by no means influneced by TREX or other 70's glam bands. Their rock and roll pedigree is just as pure as any other band that can be mentioned. The thing that confuses people and leads them towards placing them in the "hair band" genre is purly David Lee Roth. He had a quwirky, gimmicky, goofy, little schtick that he ran with. Which in turn had a HUGE impact on pretty much every singer that followed him. Eddie's guitar innovations also had a HUGE impact on every guitar player that followed him, so it wasn't that they themselves were delibertly trying to go in that direction, they were just being themselves, and everyone else copied them. You can't blame the innovaters for what the pretenders do. I very much agree with Kerry King's assesment that another poster already said, all the other bands turned the VH thing up to ten in all the wrong directions. To my knowledge DLR never wore make up while in VH, but they did have the hair and the smiles.

Let me ask you all this, why do Kiss, AC/DC, and Alice Cooper get overlooked for these hair band discussions when all three of them helped influence the 80's, and also very much went down the hair band road in the 80's. Yes AC/DC didn't stray as far from their original look and sound as Alice Cooper and Kiss did, but the AC/DC sound is just as prevelant in shaping hair bands as anything Van Halen did. As for Kiss and Alice Cooper, they went all out hair band during that decade, way more than Van Halen ever dreamed of going, yet they always get over looked, why? All of these bands are really 70's bands, but only VH gets lumped in with the hair bands.

My final point about Van Halen is when you consider both era's, Roth and Hagar, they have to be considered the greatest American hard rock band ever. As much as I like both gnr and Aerosmith, Van Halen's discography dwarfs gnr's, and they never sold out (had others write their hits like Aerosmith). So IMO yes they truely are America's greatest hard rock band. Even Eddie Trunck proclaimed Van Halen as the closest band to Led Zeppelin America ever produced, so why would we downgrade their accomplishments by labeling them a hair band? Not only are we doing the band Van Halen a disservice, we are also doing American rock and roll a disservice.

[Lithium]

This is shit

[Iron MikeyJ]

As far as the Hagar era goes, overall I agree with many of you. As a band, Van Hagar wrote better songs than they did with Roth. I have read many posts where people on here make the point that Eddie's actual guitar solos are better during the Hagar era over the Roth era, and I some what agree with that. The two exceptions to that are the debut album and 1984. Those two albums feature Eddie's best solos as well as the best songs the band Van Halen ever produced. All of the albums in between those two feature great songs and great solos as well, but for the most part the band and Eddie were experimenting more, but the debut and 1984 are the most "traditional" pop/rock sounding that VH did with Roth imo, and are still the two best imo also.

But the Hagar era while being more mature (which I like), is also a lot less experimental. I feel like the band literally just wanted to write good songs, which is great, but also they lost something in the process. That's why I love Fair Warning for example, so much experimenting and just jamming on that album. The Hagar era has NONE of that. Great songs yes, but a little too safe. Not enough Cream and Zeppelin heard during that era imo.

[foghat43]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned these guys (unless I overlooked it in one of the posts)...Junkyard.

http://youtu.be/UMef4MPYRq4

Edited July 26, 2014 by foghat43

[LightningBolt]

As for Van Halen being a "hair band," these are my thoughts....

Let me ask you all this, why do Kiss, AC/DC, and Alice Cooper get overlooked for these hair band discussions when all three of them helped influence the 80's, and also very much went down the hair band road in the 80's. Yes AC/DC didn't stray as far from their original look and sound as Alice Cooper and Kiss did, but the AC/DC sound is just as prevelant in shaping hair bands as anything Van Halen did. As for Kiss and Alice Cooper, they went all out hair band during that decade, way more than Van Halen ever dreamed of going, yet they always get over looked, why? All of these bands are really 70's bands, but only VH gets lumped in with the hair bands.

Kiss and Alice Cooper avoid the labeling probably because they both were considerably older than Van Halen (at least when comparing debut releases), and Alice Cooper especially had an extensive discography by the time hair metal existed that's far enough removed that he/they avoid the labeling when thinking of bands of the genre. Kiss was releasing popular music through the early and mid 70's, which is far enough removed from the time hair metal came in that I guess the cushion in time helps, but I think everyone would agree by the 80's they were basically in that scene. Van Halen started releasing music in the very late 70's and hair metal really started popping up only 2-3 years after their debut came out, so they're closer to the genre in terms of time period I suppose? Not saying it's fair, but I think this is probably why they avoid the label. AC/DC I just don't think fits the style or theme all that much in general.

[Apollo]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned these guys (unless I overlooked it in one of the posts)...Junkyard.

http://youtu.be/UMef4MPYRq4

Junkyard was a cool band. Loved a couple of their songs. Laid back, sleezy blues filled rock.

**************

No need to get hung up on the title "hair band" or "hair metal"...........everybody has their own personal definition of what it means. I run a site called hairmetalmusic.com and I chose the name simply because I couldn't get hardrockmusic.com and bandsthatilove.com was too cumbersome to remember.

At the end of the day, who really cares about labels and titles. If you like the music - that's all that matters. Doesn't matter what it is titled, doesn't matter if some anonymous guy online hates it and wants to bash it. As long as YOU like it, nothing else really matters.

And probably isn't fair to bash entire genres based on the worst bands of the era. Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton put out pop/R&B albums......does that mean that all pop and R&B albums suck?

I just don't see why it is so important for a few people on here to constantly bash music that other people enjoy. Makes no sense to me.

As for Van Halen being hair metal - I don't include them at my site. They are more of a straight forward rock n roll band to me.

But I also don't include Kiss, even though they should be, simply because I can't stand them and don't want to write about them.

GnR? People on here get deeply offended if they are called hair metal. But at one point they were wearing make-up - even Axl. And they had the big hair. And the big anthem inducing songs and videos. So for me, they are included in the hair metal genre. And, they are also my favorite band of all time, and I enjoy writing about them - so they made it.

Bands like Tesla and Dangerous Toys never went the Poison route.........and probably more of just old fashion rock and roll bands, but I love them both, and they were from the same time period, so they make my list.

Again......titles don't really matter.

Why can't we all just celebrate the music we love?

[Lithium]

Groghan, why can't you just let people be negative? The world would be a very boring place if everyone were positive and respectful of others' opinions all the time.

[Sixes]

i think they are to hair metal/hard rock that alice in chains are to grunge/metal. that is why this is such a difficult debate IMO. as for van halen i always liked the hagar stuff better to be honest shame me if you must

and alice in chains were at one time a hair metal band

my definition of van halen is dumbed down rock

they were a party band with terrible, just awful lyrics...pretty much the blueprint for hair metal that followed a few years later

no matter how good a guitarist ed is, they will always be seen as "less than" in the eyes of most and will never be taken as seriously as their fans want them to be....just like kiss

so, bottom line...van halen were huge influences on hair metal and then morphed from dumbed down rock to hair metal by the mid 80's

and a lot of the older hard rock bands were trying to stay relevant at the time and went the hair metal route too...whitesnake, alice cooper, kiss, def leppard, aerosmith, joan jett

Edited July 28, 2014 by Sixes

[Apollo]

Groghan, why can't you just let people be negative? The world would be a very boring place if everyone were positive and respectful of others' opinions all the time.

It's just funny with a couple of the guys on here who get their feelings really hurt if somebody makes fun of the music they like......but they are constantly bashing other people's music.

***********

But FINE!!!!!!!

I hate Winger with a passion.

Can't stand anything about them.

Kayne, Muse and Coldplay are all so boring they put me to sleep.

Julia Roberts seems like an arrogant douche and I can't stand her acting.

And........sit down...........I think Tom Hanks and Jim Carrey are extremely overrated. Carrey isn't funny, and if you were shot down behind enemy lines and the bad guys were trying to kill you, would you want Tom Hanks sent to save you?

Finally - The Simpson are idiotic and are the one show that I couldn't date somebody if they loved them. The most formulaic, clichéd filled predictable show that is designed to humor those with the lowest IQs out there.

Whew. I feel better now.

[Lithium]

Groghan, why can't you just let people be negative? The world would be a very boring place if everyone were positive and respectful of others' opinions all the time.

It's just funny with a couple of the guys on here who get their feelings really hurt if somebody makes fun of the music they like......but they are constantly bashing other people's music.

Actually, from what I've seen, they've been able to reason out why they prefer one artist over the other. I don't really see any "feelings getting hurt", except when people talk down on hair metal and other mullet rock, and their fans start crying "hipster".

[OmarBradley]

Heard this song on the radio last night for the first time, quite liked it:

[bacardimayne]

Groghan, why can't you just let people be negative? The world would be a very boring place if everyone were positive and respectful of others' opinions all the time.

It's just funny with a couple of the guys on here who get their feelings really hurt if somebody makes fun of the music they like......but they are constantly bashing other people's music.

Actually, from what I've seen, they've been able to reason out why they prefer one artist over the other. I don't really see any "feelings getting hurt", except when people talk down on hair metal and other mullet rock, and their fans start crying "hipster".

Precisely. If there was any truth to this" feelings getting hurt" nonsense I could see his point.

I don't care if people bash Kanye or any of the artists I like. Whenever it happens I just suggest they listen to TCD or MBDTF and that's the end of it. No butthurt, no feelings hurt. Being called a hipster bugs me simply because it's a gross misuse of the word. Hipsters are douchers who dress like lumberjacks and only listen to Pitchforkcore. I'm just a guy who happens to not like hair metal.

[DieselDaisy]

Kiss was the great grandparent which sired a child

Van Halen, the grand parent

Then you have Crue, the parent - then the floodgates opened up.

[Apollo]

Groghan, why can't you just let people be negative? The world would be a very boring place if everyone were positive and respectful of others' opinions all the time.

It's just funny with a couple of the guys on here who get their feelings really hurt if somebody makes fun of the music they like......but they are constantly bashing other people's music.

Actually, from what I've seen, they've been able to reason out why they prefer one artist over the other. I don't really see any "feelings getting hurt", except when people talk down on hair metal and other mullet rock, and their fans start crying "hipster".

Ya, but that's just because you agree with them!

I've seen a couple guys in here bring up butt-rock or dad-rock or shit-rock in topics that aren't even about music. That's the other big difference. The next time I get in an argument with one of those guys about food or politics, I'm not going to say "Ya, but Kayne sucks and your just a whigger" or something like that. And they do get mad about it.

I think the problem is a subtle one in that people will toss out an insult they think is funny - like "your just an old man with a mullet head listening to your shit-rock" but then get outraged when the guy responds by calling them a youngster or hipster. And conversely as well, it works both ways.

It doesn't offend me or make me mad if those guys don't like hair metal music. I like it and that's all that matters to me. Music is all about personal taste. I think Chinese Democracy the album is the best rock album of the last decade, an opinion that even most GnR fans disagree with.

I don't think I've ever called Bacardi a hipster before. But that's clearly one of those "key" words that gets people irritated. Like bringing up somebodies age, or insulting the music they like as an insult to the person. People know what words annoy others - so they use them. Hipster. dad-rock, etc.

I think Bacardi is one of the most entertaining posters on here. Broski is usually pretty funny too, but lately he seems to be trying to hard to be edgy. And in fact, I'd go so far as to say that Bacardi and Lithium are two of the top 10 posters on the forum. (Even if they don't like good music).

[Lio]

Ya, but that's just because you agree with them!

I've seen a couple guys in here bring up butt-rock or dad-rock or shit-rock in topics that aren't even about music. That's the other big difference. The next time I get in an argument with one of those guys about food or politics, I'm not going to say "Ya, but Kayne sucks and your just a whigger" or something like that. And they do get mad about it.

Groghan, do you deliberately call Kanye Kayne ? Just like others say $la$h, Sl-sh, Salsh, or Assba ?

[dalsh327]

So why did they fire Michael Anthony? Is it just because Eddie wanted to promote his son?

from what i have read it seems like eddie was somewhat bitter with michael for going with sammy and playing in chickenfoot when sammy was fired the last time. eddie says when it was announced that van halen was reforming with dave, michael tried getting back in and eddie told michael that he quit the band. michael has always taken the high road and really doesnt talk about it, he did say that when van halen reunited they had pictures of the band on their website with him cut out of the pictures, and that seemed to bother him.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/michael-anthony-refutes-eddies-claim-he-quit-van-halen-20090603

The short answer was because he was a business partner and they felt Mike wasn't contributing, because Eddie was doing the bass parts in the studio. I don't know how far back Ed had been doing that, but it sounded like it had been going on for a while. VH attempted to reunite in 2000 but the deal made Dave a hired and and getting a less percentage than Mike. I think it was because they saw Dave as a washed up has been, playing bars and fairgrounds, but he walked from the deal, he had enough money (never been married) and was busy in New York doing his EMT thing.

A few years later, Ed goes on Howard Stern to promote that porn flick he produced (which was shot at his mansion, it's called Sacred Sin), and said he was open to working with Dave again. They were busting on Dave getting booted from radio, but he made out with his own severance package when they brought Opie and Anthony on. Ed had also moved on to a new relationship so he was doing better. The 2004 tour where he had a meltdown - Valerie was in the audience and he wanted to kill Sammy.

[RussTCB]

I saw that 2004 tour in Detroit. The hostility between Dave and Sammy was so obvious it made the show unenjoyable for the most part. The played Humans Being that night which I would normally be super excited about, but the two of them sucked the fun out of the show for us.

[Apollo]

Ya, but that's just because you agree with them!

I've seen a couple guys in here bring up butt-rock or dad-rock or shit-rock in topics that aren't even about music. That's the other big difference. The next time I get in an argument with one of those guys about food or politics, I'm not going to say "Ya, but Kayne sucks and your just a whigger" or something like that. And they do get mad about it.

Groghan, do you deliberately call Kanye Kayne ? Just like others say $la$h, Sl-sh, Salsh, or Assba ?

No sir. I wasn't aware I was spelling it wrong. I'll try and pay more attention to that.

It is pretty childish to misspell people's names in an attempt to insult that person. I think we all should be better than that.

I've actually like a few of his songs in the past.

But that last album, just didn't get it. Some people were praising it like it was the Holy Grail and that Kanye was God and the best rapper of all time. So I listened to the album and was so underwhelmed and thought the lyrics were embarrassingly bad. Full of him just saying the word n*gga, and f*cking b*tches and ho's, and kicking ass. I guess he is going for street cred to show how edgy he is? I might have thought that was cool when I was 15, but now - not so much.

I only say that because I did give the album a chance. I don't just dislike the guy because of how extremely arrogant he is and because he married a Kardashian. I thought it his last album was cringe worthy bad.

Maybe now that he is married and has a child he'll put out music that is more positive and uplifting instead of thuggish and degrading.

But because I've liked some of his stuff in the past, and he is a major name in the industry, I'll still check out his next album with an unbiased mind.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Groghan

[Apollo]

I saw that 2004 tour in Detroit. The hostility between Dave and Sammy was so obvious it made the show unenjoyable for the most part. The played Humans Being that night which I would normally be super excited about, but the two of them sucked the fun out of the show for us.

I really disliked all the Hagar stuff when it came out. Just didn't like the sound direction the band went in.

But about ten years ago I revisited their entire catalog and there was some really, really good rock music there.

It's too bad the two singers hate each other so much.

Funny, just a few years after playing to 25,000 people a night, I saw Dave on tour at a club that held maybe 500 people. And there probably wasn't that many people in attendance.

We were eating dinner in the restaurant part of the club and a limo pulls up, out jumps Dave and the rest of the band, carrying cases of beer. They walked in through the front door and right through the restaurant. My wife told Dave that we had flown their from Alaska just to see him, he thought that was cool, and then they walked back stage.

The crowd was so small that you could just walk up and be about 10 people deep from the stage. Leave and go the bathroom, get a beer, and walk back to the stage and be about 10 people deep.

From Jump and Yankee Rose dominating MTV......being one of the biggest bands in the world, selling out stadiums..........to playing in front of a couple hundred people.

[WFA]

1984 is an amazing album. I LOVE the song Jump, its one of a few (the others being Home Sweet Home and Madagascar) I can play on keyboard. I taught myself how to do it. For sure a must own album for hair rock fans

[Iron MikeyJ]

I saw that 2004 tour in Detroit. The hostility between Dave and Sammy was so obvious it made the show unenjoyable for the most part. The played Humans Being that night which I would normally be super excited about, but the two of them sucked the fun out of the show for us.

Don't you mean the hostility between Ed and Sammy was aparant during the 2004 tour? I was also at that show at the Palace in 04', and it was a really subpar VH show imo. The Sam and Dave solo tour at DTE in 2001 or 2002 (cant remember for sure), was actually better imo (I went to both). Even though both Sam and Dave hated each other, it actually led to pretty good shows with each guy trying to out do the other one.

But the VH show at the Palace in 2012 (w/DLR) was the best VH show (of the 3, counting the sam/dave tour) that I have seen. ED was SO much better on that night than he was in 2004.

[Zint]

Reminds me of the last VR show I saw, tension was thick.

They weren't even looking at each other.

[RussTCB]

I saw that 2004 tour in Detroit. The hostility between Dave and Sammy was so obvious it made the show unenjoyable for the most part. The played Humans Being that night which I would normally be super excited about, but the two of them sucked the fun out of the show for us.

Don't you mean the hostility between Ed and Sammy was aparant during the 2004 tour? I was also at that show at the Palace in 04', and it was a really subpar VH show imo. The Sam and Dave solo tour at DTE in 2001 or 2002 (cant remember for sure), was actually better imo (I went to both). Even though both Sam and Dave hated each other, it actually led to pretty good shows with each guy trying to out do the other one.

But the VH show at the Palace in 2012 (w/DLR) was the best VH show (of the 3, counting the sam/dave tour) that I have seen. ED was SO much better on that night than he was in 2004.

Yeah, I was talking about Ed and Sammy not sure why I typed Dave and Sammy lol. I went to the show at JLA instead of the one at The Palace but I've heard it was the same at both shows.

I saw them with Dave the last few times they were around too. Twice at The Palace and once in Grand Rapids. Totally agree that thoae shows were great.

Edit-

I was at the Sammy 9/Dave show at Pine Knob too. Thought it was a great show.

[bacardimayne]

Ya, but that's just because you agree with them!

I've seen a couple guys in here bring up butt-rock or dad-rock or shit-rock in topics that aren't even about music. That's the other big difference. The next time I get in an argument with one of those guys about food or politics, I'm not going to say "Ya, but Kayne sucks and your just a whigger" or something like that. And they do get mad about it.

Groghan, do you deliberately call Kanye Kayne ? Just like others say $la$h, Sl-sh, Salsh, or Assba ?

No sir. I wasn't aware I was spelling it wrong. I'll try and pay more attention to that.

It is pretty childish to misspell people's names in an attempt to insult that person. I think we all should be better than that.

I've actually like a few of his songs in the past.

But that last album, just didn't get it. Some people were praising it like it was the Holy Grail and that Kanye was God and the best rapper of all time. So I listened to the album and was so underwhelmed and thought the lyrics were embarrassingly bad. Full of him just saying the word n*gga, and f*cking b*tches and ho's, and kicking ass. I guess he is going for street cred to show how edgy he is? I might have thought that was cool when I was 15, but now - not so much.

I only say that because I did give the album a chance. I don't just dislike the guy because of how extremely arrogant he is and because he married a Kardashian. I thought it his last album was cringe worthy bad.

Maybe now that he is married and has a child he'll put out music that is more positive and uplifting instead of thuggish and degrading.

But because I've liked some of his stuff in the past, and he is a major name in the industry, I'll still check out his next album with an unbiased mind.

Yeezus is FAR from his best work. It's probably his worst album. If you want to hear why people love Kanye, listen to TCD and MBDTF.

[Apollo]

Ya, but that's just because you agree with them!

I've seen a couple guys in here bring up butt-rock or dad-rock or shit-rock in topics that aren't even about music. That's the other big difference. The next time I get in an argument with one of those guys about food or politics, I'm not going to say "Ya, but Kayne sucks and your just a whigger" or something like that. And they do get mad about it.

Groghan, do you deliberately call Kanye Kayne ? Just like others say $la$h, Sl-sh, Salsh, or Assba ?

No sir. I wasn't aware I was spelling it wrong. I'll try and pay more attention to that.

It is pretty childish to misspell people's names in an attempt to insult that person. I think we all should be better than that.

I've actually like a few of his songs in the past.

But that last album, just didn't get it. Some people were praising it like it was the Holy Grail and that Kanye was God and the best rapper of all time. So I listened to the album and was so underwhelmed and thought the lyrics were embarrassingly bad. Full of him just saying the word n*gga, and f*cking b*tches and ho's, and kicking ass. I guess he is going for street cred to show how edgy he is? I might have thought that was cool when I was 15, but now - not so much.

I only say that because I did give the album a chance. I don't just dislike the guy because of how extremely arrogant he is and because he married a Kardashian. I thought it his last album was cringe worthy bad.

Maybe now that he is married and has a child he'll put out music that is more positive and uplifting instead of thuggish and degrading.

But because I've liked some of his stuff in the past, and he is a major name in the industry, I'll still check out his next album with an unbiased mind.

Yeezus is FAR from his best work. It's probably his worst album. If you want to hear why people love Kanye, listen to TCD and MBDTF.

Thanks, I'll give those two a listen this weekend.