Chinese Democracy vs. Snakepit 1, Snakepit 2, VR albums and Slash's solo?

[username]

It's hard to compare these.... But if I go by which ones I've played the most, CD is not going to be in the top 3.

[wasted]

For me it's usually a case of quality over quantity as well, but I don't think CD is that good that it can "compete" with six albums that are all pretty enjoyable.

None of the Slash albums have had longevity of CD for me. But I still enjoy Slash new releases for a week or two.

CD doesn't have a lot if immediate tracks but they reveal themselves slowly with repeat listens. Even the rockers are tougher and more gritty so more its perfect. Axl meets the 90s. Simple genius.

I don't really like the mash ups as the lyrics and tone don't fit the music.

The problem is CD doesn't have real rockers

CD doesn't have memorable riffs (maybe CD intro, but that's all) (although contains some fucking great guitar solos)

They just aren't 80s hard rock rockers. They are great 90s Alt rock rockers. I mean Shacklers is the most rocking Korn song of all time. Chi dem is an ass kicking Nirvana style song.

I agree 80s hard rock are more ass kicking than 90s rockers really. Less swagger to the 90s stuff. Them Bones, Rusty Cage, Got the Life, On a Plain don't really compare to Welcome to the Jungle. It's a different thing.

I just wouldn't expect something hard rock from Finck or Bucket. So once you forget about that idea it's easier to appreciate CD on its own terms.

I would expect hard rock thrills from a Dj n Axl song. I'm expecting a Saints of the Jungle.

Im according with you.

The "problem" is that CD is a 90 album in 2008, yeah sounds like Korn or NIN or other alternative bands, the CD perfect year was 1998.

And all the hard rock bands failed when change the style, for example Motley Crue, Skid Row, Cindirella... difficult to GnR success.

In 2004-2005 all hard rock bands reunite and playing hard rock (modern or old) again and its succes, for example Kiss, ACDC, Aerosmith or Scorpions.

That's what GNR do though. AFD 70s in the 80s. UYI 80s in the 90s. CD 90s in the 00s. So it's always dated.

Yeah most of failed, nobody said it was a good idea. I think Axl did pretty well.

Of course the reunion is pretty good idea for success. They still time players.

Edited July 29, 2014 by wasted

[Apollo]

For me, it's a case of quality over quantity, which is why I would pick Chinese over everything Slash has done combined from 1996-2012.

There's nothing on any of Slash's solo albums, Snakepit albums or with VR which hold a candle to the best of Chinese IMO, with the possible exception of Serial Killer.

The only problem with your statement is that "quality" is solely tied to personal preference. There are lots of people who think that VR put out quality music.

From a non-biased point of view..........I'd take the artist who puts out more material.

From a biased point of view........I think Chinese Democracy blows away both Vel Revolver albums and anything Slash has done as a solo artist. Though I still love Anastasia to death. So I'd take CD over Slash's albums, all day, every day, 7-days a week.

But I do wish Axl put out albums more frequently. That's a trait I'll always admire in Slash. That dude constantly releases music for his fans to enjoy.

[username]

It's hard to compare these.... But if I go by which ones I've played the most, CD is not going to be in the top 3.

That being said, I also believe a roughly 2002'ish properly produced and mixed version of CD could have blown all the others completely out of the water.

[dando]

I'll go for chinese as the best, contraband a close 2nd and slash's albums have all been poor

[gunsfanoldie]

For me it's usually a case of quality over quantity as well, but I don't think CD is that good that it can "compete" with six albums that are all pretty enjoyable.

My thoughts exactly. Slash has 6 albums there, at least 2 of which are truly excellent IMO. Chinese is one good album. Not even excellent. It would rank around Slash's 4th best solo album, which would be different for everyone but is probably IFOCS or Slash for me. Chinese isn't better or worse than those.

[OmarBradley]

I'll go for chinese as the best, contraband a close 2nd and slash's albums have all been poor

I'm seeing multiple posts like this in this thread.... how is it that you guys are fans of AFD + Lies + UYI, but think CD is better than Slash's post GNR stuff?

[gunsfanoldie]

I'll go for chinese as the best, contraband a close 2nd and slash's albums have all been poor

I'm seeing multiple posts like this in this thread.... how is it that you guys are fans of AFD + Lies + UYI, but think CD is better than Slash's post GNR stuff?

Thank you! I just can't even fathom it. Yeah, CD is good. But it doesn't even sound like GNR! And there's no one in GNRland that likes Chinese songs and doesn't like stuff like Jungle, Paradise City, Nightrain, etc. And Slash's solo material IS the GNR sound just without Axl. I don't get how people can hate it that much, and go far enough to call Chinese better than them. Simply because Chinese is Axl? Is that really all it is?

Edited July 29, 2014 by gunsfanoldie

[dando]

I'll go for chinese as the best, contraband a close 2nd and slash's albums have all been poor

I'm seeing multiple posts like this in this thread.... how is it that you guys are fans of AFD + Lies + UYI, but think CD is better than Slash's post GNR stuff?

Thank you! I just can't even fathom it. Yeah, CD is good. But it doesn't even sound like GNR! And there's no one in GNRland that likes Chinese songs and doesn't like stuff like Jungle, Paradise City, Nightrain, etc. And Slash's solo material IS the GNR sound just without Axl. I don't get how people can hate it that much, and go far enough to call Chinese better than them. Simply because Chinese is Axl? Is that really all it is?

F**k me! You asked for opinions, I gave mine, what's the problem? I've just never taken to slash's solo stuff , VR first album was very good ! I prefer CD to that! Hope that's ok. I don't think anyone's said they like chinese and not afd or the illusions and lies album especially me Edited July 29, 2014 by dando

[Gackt]

I'm seeing multiple posts like this in this thread.... how is it that you guys are fans of AFD + Lies + UYI, but think CD is better than Slash's post GNR stuff?

Chinese Democracy has top-notch experimental songwriting, great lyrics and instrumentation, and Axl's vocals really shine on it.

Slash's solo efforts mostly sound like modern hard rock radio-friendly cheese.

[DieselDaisy]

I think some people over rate the hell out of Chinese Democracy on here. It is neither that enjoyable as an album, nor that groundbreaking as an exercise in musical experimentation (adding a bunch of ‘beeps and farts’ to substandard rock fare does not make you, Aphex Twin). Equally, there is nothing that much more profound in a bunch of hokey self-obsessed love ballads, than Myles’ dull lyrical output. Neither of them are Roger Waters or Bobby Dylan here, let's face it? Also, for every dud on a Slash album - and I admit, there are many - there is at least an equivalent dud on Democracy - case in point, Scraped and Shacklers Revenge.

[Towelie]

I think some people over rate the hell out of Chinese Democracy on here. It is neither that enjoyable as an album, nor that groundbreaking as an exercise in musical experimentation (adding a bunch of ‘beeps and farts’ to substandard rock fare does not make you, Aphex Twin). Equally, there is nothing that much more profound in a bunch of hokey self-obsessed love ballads, than Myles’ dull lyrical output. Neither of them are Roger Waters or Bobby Dylan here, let's face it? Also, for every dud on a Slash album - and I admit, there are many - there is at least an equivalent dud on Democracy - case in point, Scraped and Shacklers Revenge.

Shacklers Revenge >>>>> every song Slash has done 1996-2014.

[Jordan Rose]

I'm not saying this to be inflammatory and i'm not exaggerating as I have said this many times before: I would literally take an individual track from Chinese including Twat, Madagascar, Prostitute, SoD, TIL, Catcher, Better or ITW over all of the alumni's work outside of Guns.

[DannyVinyard]

Am I the only one here who can't stand these Chinese Democracy haters? I question why these haters are even here and on top of that with thousands and thousands of posts. For example, I love Pearl Jam's material from the 90's, but can't stand anything they've done in the 2000's, so I'm not motivated to even frequent Pearl Jam forums, much less post there(thousands of times).

I just don't see any justifiable reason to hate this album. In my opinion, it not only blows away everything Slash has done, but it's the best overall album of the 2000's. Sure, it didn't have the "hits" that Appetite or the Illusions had, popularity wise, but then again Axl didn't make any effort whatsoever to promote the album. The record company choosing to release "Chinese Democracy", maybe the weakest song on the album, was a huge mistake and really hurt the album's chances of success. Imagine if this album were released with full promotion, including singles and accompanying epic videos for Better, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Street of Dreams, Prostitute, and Shackler's Revenge. The album would have exploded, especially if it were done in 2002-2003. Those are Chinese Democracy songs I never get tired of listening to, and I'm a picky guy. Hell, There Was a Time is like Estranged II to me, it's that good! These songs have amazing vocals, lyrics, guitar solos, melodies, produced to perfection, and are epic in Guns N' Roses fashion.

Outside of Slither and Anastasia, Slash's post-GNR material is mediocre at best, and even those two songs don't compare to the great songs from Chinese Democracy.

Edited July 30, 2014 by DannyVinyard

[Free Bird]

I'd prefer Contraband and Snakepit over CD any day. If you'd create a best of Slash you would have another album thats better than CD, for me at least.

Although CDs songwriting and song structure is overall better than Slash's stuff I enjoy listen to Slash's style more.

In fact there aren't as many songs on CD that I enjoy...

I like CD, Better, TWAT, Sorry and TIL. Madagascar would be outstanding but that fucking samples makes it unlistenable. There are at least that much songs on each Slash album that like. With exception of Libertad.

Best of Slash solo (without Snakepit and VR):

Crucify the dead

back from cali

by the sword

gotten

doctor alibi

watch this

nothing to say

mother maria

halo

anastasia

not for me

far and away

carolina

well like I've said, CD has a better songwriting than most of these songs but with the exception of the five CD songs I've listed I enjoy to listen to this songs more than to the rest of CD

[wasted]

Am I the only one here who can't stand these Chinese Democracy haters? I question why these haters are even here and on top of that with thousands and thousands of posts. For example, I love Pearl Jam's material from the 90's, but can't stand anything they've done in the 2000's, so I'm not motivated to even frequent Pearl Jam forums, much less post there(thousands of times).

I just don't see any justifiable reason to hate this album. In my opinion, it not only blows away everything Slash has done, but it's the best overall album of the 2000's. Sure, it didn't have the "hits" that Appetite or the Illusions had, popularity wise, but then again Axl didn't make any effort whatsoever to promote the album. The record company choosing to release "Chinese Democracy", maybe the weakest song on the album, was a huge mistake and really hurt the album's chances of success. Imagine if this album were released with full promotion, including singles and accompanying epic videos for Better, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Street of Dreams, Prostitute, and Shackler's Revenge. The album would have exploded, especially if it were done in 2002-2003. Those are Chinese Democracy songs I never get tired of listening to, and I'm a picky guy. Hell, There Was a Time is like Estranged II to me, it's that good! These songs have amazing vocals, lyrics, guitar solos, melodies, produced to perfection, and are epic in Guns N' Roses fashion.

Outside of Slither and Anastasia, Slash's post-GNR material is mediocre at best, and even those two songs don't compare to the great songs from Chinese Democracy.

Slither is a top draw rocker but Anatasia to me goes nowhere. With Axls epics they take you on a journey, I feel like he just worked harder on them. I appreciate the innovation and work that went into CD.

It was just released at a time where it wouldn't have sold 20 mil. But yes vids might have made it more competitive with peer albums.

Definitely Better, SOD, TWAT, Catcher, Madagascar, This I Love seem very GNR if not some of the others.

But yes an Axl-centric GNR. This to some isn't acceptable.

They will never please reunion fans. Even if Dj n Axl produce a decent rocker it still won't appease some. I mean I doubt a reunion would really produce anything to touch what that band did on AFD.

So I reckon back to the future with CD II.

[maynard]

Am I the only one here who can't stand these Chinese Democracy haters? I question why these haters are even here and on top of that with thousands and thousands of posts. For example, I love Pearl Jam's material from the 90's, but can't stand anything they've done in the 2000's, so I'm not motivated to even frequent Pearl Jam forums, much less post there(thousands of times).

I just don't see any justifiable reason to hate this album. In my opinion, it not only blows away everything Slash has done, but it's the best overall album of the 2000's. Sure, it didn't have the "hits" that Appetite or the Illusions had, popularity wise, but then again Axl didn't make any effort whatsoever to promote the album. The record company choosing to release "Chinese Democracy", maybe the weakest song on the album, was a huge mistake and really hurt the album's chances of success. Imagine if this album were released with full promotion, including singles and accompanying epic videos for Better, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Street of Dreams, Prostitute, and Shackler's Revenge. The album would have exploded, especially if it were done in 2002-2003. Those are Chinese Democracy songs I never get tired of listening to, and I'm a picky guy. Hell, There Was a Time is like Estranged II to me, it's that good! These songs have amazing vocals, lyrics, guitar solos, melodies, produced to perfection, and are epic in Guns N' Roses fashion.

Outside of Slither and Anastasia, Slash's post-GNR material is mediocre at best, and even those two songs don't compare to the great songs from Chinese Democracy.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. If you can't stand CD haters maybe you should leave this forum.

[wasted]

I'm not saying this to be inflammatory and i'm not exaggerating as I have said this many times before: I would literally take an individual track from Chinese including Twat, Madagascar, Prostitute, SoD, TIL, Catcher, Better or ITW over all of the alumni's work outside of Guns.

Probably the same for me. Slither is great but Is prob pick Scraped over it. I'd take Madagascar or Catcher over just about all songs released in the 2000s.

[bacardimayne]

Honestly I think Apocalyptic Love flows better as an album than any "Best of Slash" compilation would, and it doesn't beat CD imo.

EDIT: scratch that. AL with Slither and Fall to Pieces (played by the Conspirators, not VR) in place of Bad Rain and Not For Me would be better than CD.

Edited July 30, 2014 by bacardimayne

[Jordan Rose]

Am I the only one here who can't stand these Chinese Democracy haters? I question why these haters are even here and on top of that with thousands and thousands of posts. For example, I love Pearl Jam's material from the 90's, but can't stand anything they've done in the 2000's, so I'm not motivated to even frequent Pearl Jam forums, much less post there(thousands of times).

I just don't see any justifiable reason to hate this album. In my opinion, it not only blows away everything Slash has done, but it's the best overall album of the 2000's. Sure, it didn't have the "hits" that Appetite or the Illusions had, popularity wise, but then again Axl didn't make any effort whatsoever to promote the album. The record company choosing to release "Chinese Democracy", maybe the weakest song on the album, was a huge mistake and really hurt the album's chances of success. Imagine if this album were released with full promotion, including singles and accompanying epic videos for Better, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Street of Dreams, Prostitute, and Shackler's Revenge. The album would have exploded, especially if it were done in 2002-2003. Those are Chinese Democracy songs I never get tired of listening to, and I'm a picky guy. Hell, There Was a Time is like Estranged II to me, it's that good! These songs have amazing vocals, lyrics, guitar solos, melodies, produced to perfection, and are epic in Guns N' Roses fashion.

Outside of Slither and Anastasia, Slash's post-GNR material is mediocre at best, and even those two songs don't compare to the great songs from Chinese Democracy.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. If you can't stand CD haters maybe you should leave this forum.

Now, now. Let's all play nicely

Unfortunately, the myriad of issues pertaining to the name GN'R make cause issues between fans where there needn't often be any.

I mean, this forum is called MYGNR and covers the whole history of the band plus the projects of those who have left. At this point, despite being into Appetite and Illusions 20 years ago, I really consider myself an Axl Rose fan far more than a 'Guns' fan. But this forum is open to fans of everyone who has passed through the Guns brand so i'm going to meet people who are the opposite of me: who don't care for Axl beyond his singing ability and who relate to and want more of the classic riff-rock from Appetite.

Growing up, the old stuff was the soundtrack to my life, but for various reasons I don't really need that old music in my life anymore. For one thing I am sick of the 'classics' that have been played in the same order at every show for 13 years. I'm also not at a stage in my life where lyrics about getting wasted, partying, mysogyny, general youthful anger etc mean much to me anymore, regardless of how great the melodies and musicianship are. At this stage of my life I relate far more to the Chinese songs and I relate far more to Axl as a person than all of the alumni put together.

[RichardNixon]

Chinese Democracy

Slash S/T

IFOCS

AL

ALG

[Nosaj Thing]

Chinese Democracy is a terrible album. It's Five O'clock Somewhere alone is better than that turd. A best-of Slash since he quit 'that' band is miles better than the worst album of the 00s.

[auad]

the best, for me is contraband.

[Terzyo]

I think some people over rate the hell out of Chinese Democracy on here. It is neither that enjoyable as an album, nor that groundbreaking as an exercise in musical experimentation (adding a bunch of ‘beeps and farts’ to substandard rock fare does not make you, Aphex Twin). Equally, there is nothing that much more profound in a bunch of hokey self-obsessed love ballads, than Myles’ dull lyrical output. Neither of them are Roger Waters or Bobby Dylan here, let's face it? Also, for every dud on a Slash album - and I admit, there are many - there is at least an equivalent dud on Democracy - case in point, Scraped and Shacklers Revenge.

Shacklers Revenge >>>>> every song Slash has done 1996-2014.

Well, i dont like Shacklers Revenge, i prefer Anastasia, Dirty Little Thing, Set me free, Bad Rain....... and others CD songs like SOD or TIL.

[DieselDaisy]

I think some people over rate the hell out of Chinese Democracy on here. It is neither that enjoyable as an album, nor that groundbreaking as an exercise in musical experimentation (adding a bunch of ‘beeps and farts’ to substandard rock fare does not make you, Aphex Twin). Equally, there is nothing that much more profound in a bunch of hokey self-obsessed love ballads, than Myles’ dull lyrical output. Neither of them are Roger Waters or Bobby Dylan here, let's face it? Also, for every dud on a Slash album - and I admit, there are many - there is at least an equivalent dud on Democracy - case in point, Scraped and Shacklers Revenge.

Shacklers Revenge >>>>> every song Slash has done 1996-2014.

Even you cannot believe that, surely? A screechy nu-metal riff combined with probably the worst guitar solo ever written and some garbage lyics from Axl, versus, a near masterpieces like Anastasia!

Listen, I do not 'hate' CD (TWAT and Better are terrific numbers) and I am the first to admit that Slash albums tend to be patchy, but the way people talk here, it is as if CD is The Wall or Pet Sounds. CD, speaking objectively, is actually an incredibly flawed record (which is why it flopped). This debate is not even all about quality. I think some of you feel that by Axl adding (or allowing Pitman to add) beeps and farts to the songs makes CD a, ''far out dude'', ‘’I am so hip and smug’’, experimental niche record - as opposed to Slash's which are ''oh so cheesy''. You lot seem to think CD is Radiohead in otherwords, and Slash’s records are, basically Dokkon. CD is just a bunch of rather basic songs with a load of overdubs piled on-top (as opposed to songs that are built up, from scratch, via electronic).

And listen, it does not get cheesier than This I Love.