Ebola

[magisme]

Time to talk about it?

Second Ebola patient to arrive in U.S. on Tuesday

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/05/us-health-ebola-usa-idUSKBN0G307Y20140805

Here's a Map of Where the CDC Would Quarantine Possible Ebola Cases

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2014/08/04/ebola_outbreak_in_africa_raises_caution_in_u_s_as_cdc_quarantine_stations.html

Ebola-hit Sierra Leone's 'very essence' in danger: president

http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-hit-sierra-leones-very-essence-danger-president-130020519.html

Why it's harder to contain this Ebola epidemic

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-ebola-containment-africa-outbreak-political-eco-20140804-story.html#page=2

[UK SUBS]

Oh please!!

Let me know when this shit is more serious than man flu! K?

[AxlisOld]

There's diseases in Africa?!?!

[magisme]

There's diseases in Africa?!?!

I guess. Whatever. Important thing is they're bringing it to the US.

Oh please!!

Let me know when this shit is more serious than man flu! K?

Still haven't slept, huh?

[Johnny Drama]

There's diseases in Africa?!?!

[DR DOOM]

Thanks Africa.

[The Glow Inc.]

Dustin Hoffman : DO SOMETHING !

[Christinith]

I was really into Ebola in high school

[AdriftatSea]

When the guy from Minnesota was throwing up and had diarrhea on the one flight there were 50 people on it. They interviewed them, told them the symptoms of Ebola then LET THEM GO ON THEIR WAY! The guy died five days later. I'm with you on this one Magisme. This can spread far and fast. It was isolated in where, the Congo for the longest and now it's spreading into mainstream advanced countries in Africa. I live in a suburb of a city of four million with an international airport about 20 minutes away. This is a very real concern for me.

[arnold layne]

When the guy from Minnesota

[SoulMonster]

When the guy from Minnesota was throwing up and had diarrhea on the one flight there were 50 people on it. They interviewed them, told them the symptoms of Ebola then LET THEM GO ON THEIR WAY! The guy died five days later. I'm with you on this one Magisme. This can spread far and fast. It was isolated in where, the Congo for the longest and now it's spreading into mainstream advanced countries in Africa. I live in a suburb of a city of four million with an international airport about 20 minutes away. This is a very real concern for me.

Assuming you live in a country with decent healthcare and where people have adequate hygiene, this shouldn't be a concern to you. This virus only spreads through direct contact with body fluids, and not through air. There is a reason why this disease only is a problem in malfunctioning countries, it will be efficiently stopped in western countries. You can safely go back to being afraid of dying of the flu (which kills 40 000 in the US every year) or in a car crash (which kills more than 30 000 in the US every year).

Edited August 7, 2014 by SoulMonster

[Rovim]

Gross.

[Dan H.]

I was really into Ebola in high school

Yeah I was really into Ebola in the 90s, when it was still cool

[Bumblefeet]

The sad thing is that in the regions where it's spreading medial personnel is understaffed and people who are showing symptoms are afraid to go to the hospital or doctor. I saw footage on the news of a man who was lying in a puddle of water in a street for 5 hours, people were afraid to approach him. The same report also showed a man who thought he had ebola and chose to stay home and use medications he got illegally, it turned out he didn't have it though. Call it African shenanigans, but it's this mentality that is allowing this disease to spread there. I don't understand why they are flying over infected bodies, this should be contained as harsh as possible.

[Georgy Zhukov]

When the guy from Minnesota was throwing up and had diarrhea on the one flight there were 50 people on it. They interviewed them, told them the symptoms of Ebola then LET THEM GO ON THEIR WAY! The guy died five days later. I'm with you on this one Magisme. This can spread far and fast. It was isolated in where, the Congo for the longest and now it's spreading into mainstream advanced countries in Africa. I live in a suburb of a city of four million with an international airport about 20 minutes away. This is a very real concern for me.

Assuming you live in a country with decent healthcare and where people have adequate hygiene, this shouldn't be a concern to you. This virus only spreads through direct contact with body fluids, and not through air. There is a reason why this disease only is a problem in malfunctioning countries, it will be efficiently stopped in western countries. You can safely go back to being afraid of dying of the flu (which kills 40 000 in the US every year) or in a car crash (which kills more than 30 000 in the US every year).

Smoking cigarettes kills more Americans every year combined.

[AdriftatSea]

When the guy from Minnesota was throwing up and had diarrhea on the one flight there were 50 people on it. They interviewed them, told them the symptoms of Ebola then LET THEM GO ON THEIR WAY! The guy died five days later. I'm with you on this one Magisme. This can spread far and fast. It was isolated in where, the Congo for the longest and now it's spreading into mainstream advanced countries in Africa. I live in a suburb of a city of four million with an international airport about 20 minutes away. This is a very real concern for me.

Assuming you live in a country with decent healthcare and where people have adequate hygiene, this shouldn't be a concern to you. This virus only spreads through direct contact with body fluids, and not through air. There is a reason why this disease only is a problem in malfunctioning countries, it will be efficiently stopped in western countries. You can safely go back to being afraid of dying of the flu (which kills 40 000 in the US every year) or in a car crash (which kills more than 30 000 in the US every year).

Thanks for checking into wiki and getting back with me on that info that everyone in the free world knows. I work for an international company with an office in Maputo. I have very real concerns of this. The flu pandemic a hundred or so years ago was a very real concern for all those millions of people that died too. Educate yourself or go stick your head back in the sand and believe 'just because things have always been this way, things will always be that way' because that 'ain't gonna' happen. Twenty years ago having a couple of people sitting in Atlanta, the home of (Edit: CDC) WHO, with Ebola would have been farcical. Speaking of the flu, make sure and get your vaccine in October people!

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/about.html

Edited August 8, 2014 by AdriftatSea

[SoulMonster]

When the guy from Minnesota was throwing up and had diarrhea on the one flight there were 50 people on it. They interviewed them, told them the symptoms of Ebola then LET THEM GO ON THEIR WAY! The guy died five days later. I'm with you on this one Magisme. This can spread far and fast. It was isolated in where, the Congo for the longest and now it's spreading into mainstream advanced countries in Africa. I live in a suburb of a city of four million with an international airport about 20 minutes away. This is a very real concern for me.

Assuming you live in a country with decent healthcare and where people have adequate hygiene, this shouldn't be a concern to you. This virus only spreads through direct contact with body fluids, and not through air. There is a reason why this disease only is a problem in malfunctioning countries, it will be efficiently stopped in western countries. You can safely go back to being afraid of dying of the flu (which kills 40 000 in the US every year) or in a car crash (which kills more than 30 000 in the US every year).

Thanks for checking into wiki and getting back with me on that info that everyone in the free world knows. I work for an international company with an office in Maputo. I have very real concerns of this. The flu pandemic a hundred or so years ago was a very real concern for all those millions of people that died too. Educate yourself or go stick your head back in the sand and believe 'just because things have always been this way, things will always be that way' because that 'ain't gonna' happen. Twenty years ago having a couple of people sitting in Atlanta, the home of (Edit: CDC) WHO, with Ebola would have been farcical. Speaking of the flu, make sure and get your vaccine in October people!

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/about.html

- Fuck off with your saying I use wikipedia when talking about diseases.

- You don't have to have "real concerns" about Ebola if you live in the US (see my last post), EVEN if your company has offices in West Africa. Ebola will simply not be as contagious in the US (or Europe) as it is in West Africa because our countries have systems and facilities in place to handle infectious diseases combined with much better hygiene, healthcare and an informed public. This is the exact reason why Ebola has ONLY been a problem in very poor and underdeveloped nations so far. The ONLY reasons the current Ebola outbreak is getting so much media attention are that it is more wide-spread this time and that there are no other and more serious outbreaks for the media to attempt to scare us with at the moment.

- The flu pandemic you are talking about was a new strain occurring at a time when we neither had healthcare or good hygiene. This Ebola virus does not work like flu viruses in term of virulence AND we now live (again assuming you live in the western world) in completely different countries re: healthcare systems. I would be very worried if a new virulent flu virus were to evolve but Ebola is really nothing to worry about, unless, of course, you live in a straw hut where people drink from the same water reservoirs, live far away from hospitals, and have little understanding about contagious diseases and the Ebola in particular. I am exaggerating slightly to get my point across.

- I never said anything about "things always being the same". I think I am pretty well informed about how viruses and other pathogenic agents evolve and hence change over time, and how societies change to handle diseases and epidemics, this is both tangential to my current position and was part of my education. It could very well be that the Ebola virus that has now killed about 900 people is a newly evolved strain, but it is still of little danger to modern countries because it still spreads through bodily fluids. Just a few weeks ago I read a report from one of the doctors working in West Africa and he pointed out how he wouldn't have been worried about sitting next to a person infected with Ebola on the bus. Not saying I wouldn't seek a different seat, just pointing out how un-contagious it is thought to be.

[AdriftatSea]

When the guy from Minnesota was throwing up and had diarrhea on the one flight there were 50 people on it. They interviewed them, told them the symptoms of Ebola then LET THEM GO ON THEIR WAY! The guy died five days later. I'm with you on this one Magisme. This can spread far and fast. It was isolated in where, the Congo for the longest and now it's spreading into mainstream advanced countries in Africa. I live in a suburb of a city of four million with an international airport about 20 minutes away. This is a very real concern for me.

Assuming you live in a country with decent healthcare and where people have adequate hygiene, this shouldn't be a concern to you. This virus only spreads through direct contact with body fluids, and not through air. There is a reason why this disease only is a problem in malfunctioning countries, it will be efficiently stopped in western countries. You can safely go back to being afraid of dying of the flu (which kills 40 000 in the US every year) or in a car crash (which kills more than 30 000 in the US every year).

Thanks for checking into wiki and getting back with me on that info that everyone in the free world knows. I work for an international company with an office in Maputo. I have very real concerns of this. The flu pandemic a hundred or so years ago was a very real concern for all those millions of people that died too. Educate yourself or go stick your head back in the sand and believe 'just because things have always been this way, things will always be that way' because that 'ain't gonna' happen. Twenty years ago having a couple of people sitting in Atlanta, the home of (Edit: CDC) WHO, with Ebola would have been farcical. Speaking of the flu, make sure and get your vaccine in October people!

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/about.html

- Fuck off with your saying I use wikipedia when talking about diseases.

- You don't have to have "real concerns" about Ebola if you live in the US (see my last post), EVEN if your company has offices in West Africa. Ebola will simply not be as contagious in the US (or Europe) as it is in West Africa because our countries have systems and facilities in place to handle infectious diseases combined with much better hygiene, healthcare and an informed public. This is the exact reason why Ebola has ONLY been a problem in very poor and underdeveloped nations so far. The ONLY reasons the current Ebola outbreak is getting so much media attention are that it is more wide-spread this time and that there are no other and more serious outbreaks for the media to attempt to scare us with at the moment.

- The flu pandemic you are talking about was a new strain occurring at a time when we neither had healthcare or good hygiene. This Ebola virus does not work like flu viruses in term of virulence AND we now live (again assuming you live in the western world) in completely different countries re: healthcare systems. I would be very worried if a new virulent flu virus were to evolve but Ebola is really nothing to worry about, unless, of course, you live in a straw hut where people drink from the same water reservoirs, live far away from hospitals, and have little understanding about contagious diseases and the Ebola in particular. I am exaggerating slightly to get my point across.

- I never said anything about "things always being the same". I think I am pretty well informed about how viruses and other pathogenic agents evolve and hence change over time, and how societies change to handle diseases and epidemics, this is both tangential to my current position and was part of my education. It could very well be that the Ebola virus that has now killed about 900 people is a newly evolved strain, but it is still of little danger to modern countries because it still spreads through bodily fluids. Just a few weeks ago I read a report from one of the doctors working in West Africa and he pointed out how he wouldn't have been worried about sitting next to a person infected with Ebola on the bus. Not saying I wouldn't seek a different seat, just pointing out how un-contagious it is thought to be.

I stated my opinion and you came back with your smart ass, condescending remarks to me about how I should go worry about statistics of people killed in car wrecks. I have good reason to worry about people that have been killed in car wrecks and do not like them being lumped into nameless, faceless statistics so yes, that lights a fire under me.

No, I don't think the world is going to be wiped out by Ebola. I only stated it was a concern as Mags asked what we thought when starting this thread. You, on the other hand decided to attack me by attacking my opinion. You want to tell me to fuck off? Nice opener to get me to listen to your stance on the matter, however, I've done just that. Read your stance and decided to listen.

I do live in the US and yes I do have real concerns about Ebola. AIDS started the same way. It began as a disease that was originated from primates that was transmitted to humans. In the '80's many people died from AIDS related illnesses. Possibly people were dying in the '70's, 60's even, from it. The media didn't catch on until it hit the gay community though. Many more people died from AIDS related illnesses than was ever reported. People just didn't report it as related to AIDS because it was so frowned upon.

Now here we have a disease that is another pariah. It isn't acquired by IV drug use or sexual promiscuity but it is deadly just the same much as AIDS related deaths were thirty years ago. I don't believe it will wipe out mankind but I do believe it is something that we should take note of.

The flu pandemic that I spoke of, you are correct in that it was a new strain. Each and every year we have a new strain of flu. This is why they develop a new vaccine each and every year. There is a new strain... every year! Each and every year, as you stated, thousands of people die in the US alone from flu related illnesses. It has nothing to do with hygiene! Each year the flu virus becomes more difficult to develop a vaccine for because each year the virus mutates and becomes more resistant to the vaccine.

You are correct in that societies do change to handle diseases and epidemics (that is their goal) yet sometimes societies cannot keep up with the diseases and epidemics and this is when pandemics occur.

The point of my post was to express my concern that once again, this could be something of a major concern for society. It is a concern of MINE. It doesn't have to be a concern of YOURS. You can worry about whatever you want or worry about nothing at all.

On a side note, now that they've found a young, white, male doctor with the disease and they've been able to get him to Atlanta, chances are they will be able to study this disease and progress in finding a vaccine that will help to eradicate the symptoms. Good luck to all those people in Africa though. They won't ever see the vaccine when and if one is developed here in the states.

Edit: And other than the 'fuck you' at the beginning, which I didn't think was much of a debate, thank you for the rest of your comments. I found them to be a good debate.

Edited August 9, 2014 by AdriftatSea

[SoulMonster]

When the guy from Minnesota was throwing up and had diarrhea on the one flight there were 50 people on it. They interviewed them, told them the symptoms of Ebola then LET THEM GO ON THEIR WAY! The guy died five days later. I'm with you on this one Magisme. This can spread far and fast. It was isolated in where, the Congo for the longest and now it's spreading into mainstream advanced countries in Africa. I live in a suburb of a city of four million with an international airport about 20 minutes away. This is a very real concern for me.

Assuming you live in a country with decent healthcare and where people have adequate hygiene, this shouldn't be a concern to you. This virus only spreads through direct contact with body fluids, and not through air. There is a reason why this disease only is a problem in malfunctioning countries, it will be efficiently stopped in western countries. You can safely go back to being afraid of dying of the flu (which kills 40 000 in the US every year) or in a car crash (which kills more than 30 000 in the US every year).

Thanks for checking into wiki and getting back with me on that info that everyone in the free world knows. I work for an international company with an office in Maputo. I have very real concerns of this. The flu pandemic a hundred or so years ago was a very real concern for all those millions of people that died too. Educate yourself or go stick your head back in the sand and believe 'just because things have always been this way, things will always be that way' because that 'ain't gonna' happen. Twenty years ago having a couple of people sitting in Atlanta, the home of (Edit: CDC) WHO, with Ebola would have been farcical. Speaking of the flu, make sure and get your vaccine in October people!

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/about.html

- Fuck off with your saying I use wikipedia when talking about diseases.

- You don't have to have "real concerns" about Ebola if you live in the US (see my last post), EVEN if your company has offices in West Africa. Ebola will simply not be as contagious in the US (or Europe) as it is in West Africa because our countries have systems and facilities in place to handle infectious diseases combined with much better hygiene, healthcare and an informed public. This is the exact reason why Ebola has ONLY been a problem in very poor and underdeveloped nations so far. The ONLY reasons the current Ebola outbreak is getting so much media attention are that it is more wide-spread this time and that there are no other and more serious outbreaks for the media to attempt to scare us with at the moment.

- The flu pandemic you are talking about was a new strain occurring at a time when we neither had healthcare or good hygiene. This Ebola virus does not work like flu viruses in term of virulence AND we now live (again assuming you live in the western world) in completely different countries re: healthcare systems. I would be very worried if a new virulent flu virus were to evolve but Ebola is really nothing to worry about, unless, of course, you live in a straw hut where people drink from the same water reservoirs, live far away from hospitals, and have little understanding about contagious diseases and the Ebola in particular. I am exaggerating slightly to get my point across.

- I never said anything about "things always being the same". I think I am pretty well informed about how viruses and other pathogenic agents evolve and hence change over time, and how societies change to handle diseases and epidemics, this is both tangential to my current position and was part of my education. It could very well be that the Ebola virus that has now killed about 900 people is a newly evolved strain, but it is still of little danger to modern countries because it still spreads through bodily fluids. Just a few weeks ago I read a report from one of the doctors working in West Africa and he pointed out how he wouldn't have been worried about sitting next to a person infected with Ebola on the bus. Not saying I wouldn't seek a different seat, just pointing out how un-contagious it is thought to be.

I stated my opinion and you came back with your smart ass, condescending remarks to me about how I should go worry about statistics of people killed in car wrecks. I have good reason to worry about people that have been killed in car wrecks and do not like them being lumped into nameless, faceless statistics so yes, that lights a fire under me.

No, I don't think the world is going to be wiped out by Ebola. I only stated it was a concern as Mags asked what we thought when starting this thread. You, on the other hand decided to attack me by attacking my opinion. You want to tell me to fuck off? Nice opener to get me to listen to your stance on the matter, however, I've done just that. Read your stance and decided to listen.

I do live in the US and yes I do have real concerns about Ebola. AIDS started the same way. It began as a disease that was originated from primates that was transmitted to humans. In the '80's many people died from AIDS related illnesses. Possibly people were dying in the '70's, 60's even, from it. The media didn't catch on until it hit the gay community though. Many more people died from AIDS related illnesses than was ever reported. People just didn't report it as related to AIDS because it was so frowned upon.

Now here we have a disease that is another pariah. It isn't acquired by IV drug use or sexual promiscuity but it is deadly just the same much as AIDS related deaths were thirty years ago. I don't believe it will wipe out mankind but I do believe it is something that we should take note of.

The flu pandemic that I spoke of, you are correct in that it was a new strain. Each and every year we have a new strain of flu. This is why they develop a new vaccine each and every year. There is a new strain... every year! Each and every year, as you stated, thousands of people die in the US alone from flu related illnesses. It has nothing to do with hygiene! Each year the flu virus becomes more difficult to develop a vaccine for because each year the virus mutates and becomes more resistant to the vaccine.

You are correct in that societies do change to handle diseases and epidemics (that is their goal) yet sometimes societies cannot keep up with the diseases and epidemics and this is when pandemics occur.

The point of my post was to express my concern that once again, this could be something of a major concern for society. It is a concern of MINE. It doesn't have to be a concern of YOURS. You can worry about whatever you want or worry about nothing at all.

On a side note, now that they've found a young, white, male doctor with the disease and they've been able to get him to Atlanta, chances are they will be able to study this disease and progress in finding a vaccine that will help to eradicate the symptoms. Good luck to all those people in Africa though. They won't ever see the vaccine when and if one is developed here in the states.

Edit: And other than the 'fuck you' at the beginning, which I didn't think was much of a debate, thank you for the rest of your comments. I found them to be a good debate.

The reason why I used people killed by flu or in car accidents was to highlight how absurd it is to worry about Ebola and not may other mundane things that are much more probable of being a threat to us. I used car deaths purely by random (it was the first non-disease that came to mind). I am sorry if this was a sensitive topic for you, it was completely unintentional, I had no idea.

You mention AIDS. AIDS was a killer from the moment it took the leap from other primates to humans. In hindsight it is obvious why it must be so. After infection the virus (HIV) doesn't cause the disease (AIDS) untill often many years later. This means that infected patients are oblivious to them carrying the virus and risk spreading it to many other people because they simply don't know about it. Ebola is nothing like this. After being infected by the bola virus you get symptoms fairly quickly, which means you won't spread it unwittingly to others. This also means that it is a disease that is much, much, much easier to track than AIDS.

If a person with Ebola comes to the USA she will only spread the disease so far before it is contained because it will be quickly recognized before many other people are infected. With HIV, on the contrary, people could live for years before they realized they had the disease.

So again, Ebola is not like the flu, or HIV or most other diseases. It is a killer, yes, because the mortality when infected is very high. But it will ONLY succeed at spreading in countries that is pretty much malfunctioning when it comes to healthcare and where people are uninformed in regards to hygiene and how to contain epidemics. In other words, this is a third world disease and nothing we should worry about. I understand and agree that you are free to worry about anything you want. My objective is trying to make you understand that worrying about Ebola is misguided and a waste of time. There are things that ARE plausible to be a danger to you, and me, and we would do best to focus on these and not things that (so far) is negligible, like the Ebola virus.

In the end I will just quickly comment on a misunderstanding of yours in regards to the flu and vaccines. Yes, the flu virus mutates all the time, but this does not make it harder to make vaccines (which are basically just non-infectious parts of the virus capsule which will activate our immune system and make it respond to the real flu virus if we ever encounter it) which you say, nor does the virus become "resistant to the vaccine". I think you are mixing this up with antibiotics against bacteria. Bacteria actually become resistant to specific antibiotics (which are basically poisons designed to kill bacteria) necessitating the constant development of new antibiotics. No matter how much the flu virus mutates, we will always be able to characterize the structure of the virus so as to make vaccines, and these vaccines will more or less always be efficient.

And lastly it was this comment from you "Thanks for checking into wiki and getting back with me on that info that everyone in the free world knows" that mad me respond the way I did. It was insulting to imply I just copied things from wikipedia, it was insulting to say my post had only contained trivia known to everyone. It should be obvious from our discussion that there is a lot of misunderstandings surroundings epidemics.

[AdriftatSea]

When the guy from Minnesota was throwing up and had diarrhea on the one flight there were 50 people on it. They interviewed them, told them the symptoms of Ebola then LET THEM GO ON THEIR WAY! The guy died five days later. I'm with you on this one Magisme. This can spread far and fast. It was isolated in where, the Congo for the longest and now it's spreading into mainstream advanced countries in Africa. I live in a suburb of a city of four million with an international airport about 20 minutes away. This is a very real concern for me.

Assuming you live in a country with decent healthcare and where people have adequate hygiene, this shouldn't be a concern to you. This virus only spreads through direct contact with body fluids, and not through air. There is a reason why this disease only is a problem in malfunctioning countries, it will be efficiently stopped in western countries. You can safely go back to being afraid of dying of the flu (which kills 40 000 in the US every year) or in a car crash (which kills more than 30 000 in the US every year).

Thanks for checking into wiki and getting back with me on that info that everyone in the free world knows. I work for an international company with an office in Maputo. I have very real concerns of this. The flu pandemic a hundred or so years ago was a very real concern for all those millions of people that died too. Educate yourself or go stick your head back in the sand and believe 'just because things have always been this way, things will always be that way' because that 'ain't gonna' happen. Twenty years ago having a couple of people sitting in Atlanta, the home of (Edit: CDC) WHO, with Ebola would have been farcical. Speaking of the flu, make sure and get your vaccine in October people!

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/about.html

- Fuck off with your saying I use wikipedia when talking about diseases.

- You don't have to have "real concerns" about Ebola if you live in the US (see my last post), EVEN if your company has offices in West Africa. Ebola will simply not be as contagious in the US (or Europe) as it is in West Africa because our countries have systems and facilities in place to handle infectious diseases combined with much better hygiene, healthcare and an informed public. This is the exact reason why Ebola has ONLY been a problem in very poor and underdeveloped nations so far. The ONLY reasons the current Ebola outbreak is getting so much media attention are that it is more wide-spread this time and that there are no other and more serious outbreaks for the media to attempt to scare us with at the moment.

- The flu pandemic you are talking about was a new strain occurring at a time when we neither had healthcare or good hygiene. This Ebola virus does not work like flu viruses in term of virulence AND we now live (again assuming you live in the western world) in completely different countries re: healthcare systems. I would be very worried if a new virulent flu virus were to evolve but Ebola is really nothing to worry about, unless, of course, you live in a straw hut where people drink from the same water reservoirs, live far away from hospitals, and have little understanding about contagious diseases and the Ebola in particular. I am exaggerating slightly to get my point across.

- I never said anything about "things always being the same". I think I am pretty well informed about how viruses and other pathogenic agents evolve and hence change over time, and how societies change to handle diseases and epidemics, this is both tangential to my current position and was part of my education. It could very well be that the Ebola virus that has now killed about 900 people is a newly evolved strain, but it is still of little danger to modern countries because it still spreads through bodily fluids. Just a few weeks ago I read a report from one of the doctors working in West Africa and he pointed out how he wouldn't have been worried about sitting next to a person infected with Ebola on the bus. Not saying I wouldn't seek a different seat, just pointing out how un-contagious it is thought to be.

I stated my opinion and you came back with your smart ass, condescending remarks to me about how I should go worry about statistics of people killed in car wrecks. I have good reason to worry about people that have been killed in car wrecks and do not like them being lumped into nameless, faceless statistics so yes, that lights a fire under me.

No, I don't think the world is going to be wiped out by Ebola. I only stated it was a concern as Mags asked what we thought when starting this thread. You, on the other hand decided to attack me by attacking my opinion. You want to tell me to fuck off? Nice opener to get me to listen to your stance on the matter, however, I've done just that. Read your stance and decided to listen.

I do live in the US and yes I do have real concerns about Ebola. AIDS started the same way. It began as a disease that was originated from primates that was transmitted to humans. In the '80's many people died from AIDS related illnesses. Possibly people were dying in the '70's, 60's even, from it. The media didn't catch on until it hit the gay community though. Many more people died from AIDS related illnesses than was ever reported. People just didn't report it as related to AIDS because it was so frowned upon.

Now here we have a disease that is another pariah. It isn't acquired by IV drug use or sexual promiscuity but it is deadly just the same much as AIDS related deaths were thirty years ago. I don't believe it will wipe out mankind but I do believe it is something that we should take note of.

The flu pandemic that I spoke of, you are correct in that it was a new strain. Each and every year we have a new strain of flu. This is why they develop a new vaccine each and every year. There is a new strain... every year! Each and every year, as you stated, thousands of people die in the US alone from flu related illnesses. It has nothing to do with hygiene! Each year the flu virus becomes more difficult to develop a vaccine for because each year the virus mutates and becomes more resistant to the vaccine.

You are correct in that societies do change to handle diseases and epidemics (that is their goal) yet sometimes societies cannot keep up with the diseases and epidemics and this is when pandemics occur.

The point of my post was to express my concern that once again, this could be something of a major concern for society. It is a concern of MINE. It doesn't have to be a concern of YOURS. You can worry about whatever you want or worry about nothing at all.

On a side note, now that they've found a young, white, male doctor with the disease and they've been able to get him to Atlanta, chances are they will be able to study this disease and progress in finding a vaccine that will help to eradicate the symptoms. Good luck to all those people in Africa though. They won't ever see the vaccine when and if one is developed here in the states.

Edit: And other than the 'fuck you' at the beginning, which I didn't think was much of a debate, thank you for the rest of your comments. I found them to be a good debate.

The reason why I used people killed by flu or in car accidents was to highlight how absurd it is to worry about Ebola and not may other mundane things that are much more probable of being a threat to us. I used car deaths purely by random (it was the first non-disease that came to mind). I am sorry if this was a sensitive topic for you, it was completely unintentional, I had no idea.

You mention AIDS. AIDS was a killer from the moment it took the leap from other primates to humans. In hindsight it is obvious why it must be so. After infection the virus (HIV) doesn't cause the disease (AIDS) untill often many years later. This means that infected patients are oblivious to them carrying the virus and risk spreading it to many other people because they simply don't know about it. Ebola is nothing like this. After being infected by the bola virus you get symptoms fairly quickly, which means you won't spread it unwittingly to others. This also means that it is a disease that is much, much, much easier to track than AIDS.

If a person with Ebola comes to the USA she will only spread the disease so far before it is contained because it will be quickly recognized before many other people are infected. With HIV, on the contrary, people could live for years before they realized they had the disease.

So again, Ebola is not like the flu, or HIV or most other diseases. It is a killer, yes, because the mortality when infected is very high. But it will ONLY succeed at spreading in countries that is pretty much malfunctioning when it comes to healthcare and where people are uninformed in regards to hygiene and how to contain epidemics. In other words, this is a third world disease and nothing we should worry about. I understand and agree that you are free to worry about anything you want. My objective is trying to make you understand that worrying about Ebola is misguided and a waste of time. There are things that ARE plausible to be a danger to you, and me, and we would do best to focus on these and not things that (so far) is negligible, like the Ebola virus.

In the end I will just quickly comment on a misunderstanding of yours in regards to the flu and vaccines. Yes, the flu virus mutates all the time, but this does not make it harder to make vaccines (which are basically just non-infectious parts of the virus capsule which will activate our immune system and make it respond to the real flu virus if we ever encounter it) which you say, nor does the virus become "resistant to the vaccine". I think you are mixing this up with antibiotics against bacteria. Bacteria actually become resistant to specific antibiotics (which are basically poisons designed to kill bacteria) necessitating the constant development of new antibiotics. No matter how much the flu virus mutates, we will always be able to characterize the structure of the virus so as to make vaccines, and these vaccines will more or less always be efficient.

And lastly it was this comment from you "Thanks for checking into wiki and getting back with me on that info that everyone in the free world knows" that mad me respond the way I did. It was insulting to imply I just copied things from wikipedia, it was insulting to say my post had only contained trivia known to everyone. It should be obvious from our discussion that there is a lot of misunderstandings surroundings epidemics.

You are right, I have it mixed up with bacteria and antibiotics! ha! It's good to know neither of us read wikipedia then.

While I do agree and you are correct Ebola presents itself on a far rapid scale than the virus that causes AIDS it can be just as damning in the long term and spread on a mass scale because it isn't contained in the host body as easily. People that carry the Ebola virus are basically splashing it around everywhere, wherever they are. They are retching from both ends and you cannot really, not really quarantine someone until you get them in quarantine. Does that make sense? Isn't this why we are seeing the healthcare workers getting sick now? And they can go what, three weeks before they present with symptoms?

I understand it 'could' be tracked and should be tracked. But that was my first post, my concern. The man that was on his way home to Minnesota, he was vomiting and had diarrhea on the flight. There were 50 people on that flight. They pulled him off, quarantined him, diagnosed him, told the other people on the flight what the symptoms were and they should watch out for those symptoms and check with their family doctor if they began to notice signs of becoming ill. Then those 50 people were sent along their merry way. What if any of them used the same lavatory as that man? What if it wasn't cleaned properly? What if one, just one of those people had been exposed to the virus and is now home with their family and exposes others? That was what my initial thought/post was about. That one incident is when it became very real to me. It was no longer isolated. What could come from that one single incident?

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your very thoughtful, educated and well informed reply. Debate won, objective accomplished. I'll try not to be such a smart ass going forward, but I'm not making any promises.

[AxlisOld]

People in real countries don't need to worry. "Oh the US' health care is so expensive!" Well...we won't die from Ebola.

[AdriftatSea]

People in real countries don't need to worry. "Oh the US' health care is so expensive!" Well...we won't die from Ebola.

What? Please explain your point?

[SoulMonster]

While I do agree and you are correct Ebola presents itself on a far rapid scale than the virus that causes AIDS it can be just as damning in the long term and spread on a mass scale because it isn't contained in the host body as easily. People that carry the Ebola virus are basically splashing it around everywhere, wherever they are. They are retching from both ends and you cannot really, not really quarantine someone until you get them in quarantine. Does that make sense? Isn't this why we are seeing the healthcare workers getting sick now? And they can go what, three weeks before they present with symptoms?

I understand it 'could' be tracked and should be tracked. But that was my first post, my concern. The man that was on his way home to Minnesota, he was vomiting and had diarrhea on the flight. There were 50 people on that flight. They pulled him off, quarantined him, diagnosed him, told the other people on the flight what the symptoms were and they should watch out for those symptoms and check with their family doctor if they began to notice signs of becoming ill. Then those 50 people were sent along their merry way. What if any of them used the same lavatory as that man? What if it wasn't cleaned properly? What if one, just one of those people had been exposed to the virus and is now home with their family and exposes others? That was what my initial thought/post was about. That one incident is when it became very real to me. It was no longer isolated. What could come from that one single incident?

I don't want to trivialize Ebola, it is a serious disease and this outbreak is ominous. What we fear is that it will not be contained and continue to spread into other underdeveloped countries, perhaps on other continents. It might even cause small outbreaks in developed countries like USA due to international flights (which you talked about earlier), especially in larger cities, although I doubt such outbreaks would take more than a few hundred lives combined. It is highly unlikely that Ebola will ever kill as many "westerners" per year as malaria. And don't get me started on the lethality of malaria vs Ebola in Africa. It is disgusting how much focus the media put on Ebola which hasn't killed 1000 people yet and probably won't kill close to the millions who die from malaria every year. It's sensationalism at its worst and completely out of proportions. The media simply aren't able to scare us with malaria any more so they jump at any new exotic disease that are still able to shock and scare us.

Back to Ebola. One should question why this outbreak of Ebola has been so much more deadly than the about 20 previous outbreaks of Ebola. Has the virus evolved to become more virulent? I believe you mentioned how viruses can change earlier, and it is an apt comment from you. Can Ebola evolve so as to become a threat to our countries? The answer is yes, but highly unlikely, at least on the short term. It needs to change the way it spreads, basically obtain a new trait, which is a complex thing that requires numerous evolutionary steps that takes a long time, if it ever happens. I would be MUCH more worried about disease that is already highly contagious, like the flu, becoming more lethal (because this requires far less evolutionary steps) than of Ebola becoming more contagious. That's is why we are putting so much research and resources into being on top of the flu, both in terms of paying attention to new strains of the flu and how they evolve, but also by trying to understand what made previous strains so incredibly deadly.

As for healthcare workers getting sick of Ebola. This is an occupational hazard, I am afraid. Doctors and nurses get sick from contagious diseases all the time. The problem now is of course that if they get infected with Ebola chances are they might die (and not just stay at home for a few days because they got the cold), hence the suits and sterilization equipment you might have seen on news report. They also work under sub-optimal conditions (not many BSL 3 labs in West Africa, I am afraid) with poor infrastructure making it harder to protect themselves. I would also think they take some risks, as doctors often do.

In regards to your story about the air passengers being allowed to go home and not put in quarantine. I haven't hard this story before. I would speculate that this is related to Ebola not being contagious until patients have started to develop symptoms. Hence, if passengers from that flight were to "turn themselves in" when they start developing symptoms there would not be a risk of anyone else getting infected. The alternative, which would be to quarantine all these guys on the off chance that they got infected from travelling with the potential Ebola diseased, is just too expensive, too rash a measure, and would only risk causing unrest/panic in the public, because it is highly unlikely they would have become infected. I mentioned before that doctor who said he wouldn't be worried at all from sitting next to a person with Ebola on the bus. Ebola simply isn't contagious enough to spread between people just because they sit close to each other.

[The Sandman]

I think the only thing that's concerning is bleeding out of every body crevice.

[Dazey]

I think the only thing that's concerning is bleeding out of every body crevice.

It could be Ebola. She could just be married to Stan Collymore.