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magisme

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i feel bad for the people who live in that city who have no jobs or place of employment anymore because a bunch of psychotic criminals wanted an excuse to rampage and burn down a town. i also feel bad for the 99% of people in that town that are protesting peacefully and having their message go unheard because of a bunch of criminals.

the one big problem is personal responsibility has gone out the window for a lot of people. they blame the cop in this situation when if michael brown didnt steal from a convenience store and rough up the clerk, none of this even happens. if michael brown didnt attack a police officer he is still alive. instead it is always someone elses fault and if they dont get the desired outcome(the cop being sent to prison for life or killed) they burn things down.

im not a huge cop defender or anything, and something needs to be done with how cops treat civilians and how they shoot civilians,and the message the protesters are sending is a valid one, but burning and looting are being done by opportunistic criminals not legit protesters.

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The shops and community represent government? :facepalm:

Yes, they represent the country, the government, this IS the country, this road I'm on now is England, just like the road you're on is America, the shops are where American commerce goes on, where the currency of the nation takes place, why was the great fire of London called the great fire of London? Cuz it was London that was burning. And thats what they have a gripe with. It's a specific reaction to that shit...you can say it's their own community...but then it's not is it, not if your rights ain't your rights, if that can be taken away then exactly how much of this so-called 'community' is yours?

If you yourself can get killed on these streets, if your life doesn't have value, then what value do a bunch of shops and shit have?

Len you know I like ya, which is why I’m disappointed you’ve chosen to support those who resorted to violence after the facts didn’t give ‘em the decision they wanted. The point you seem to be missing, the very big point, is that these so-called protesters (opportunistic criminals is more like it) are hurting and destroying the property and lives of fellow citizens and business owners who had absolutely nothing to do with the shooting or the decision to not press charges.

Which is tragic but it still occured for the reasons stated.

I’m glad you brought up the Boston Tea Party, which was one of the earliest non-violent protests in American history. That’s the right way of doing it Len, their cause was just (no taxation without representation) and they made their point without destroying or stealing the property of fellow citizens.

Yeah and the rest :lol:

Think about the local store owners in Ferguson, many of whom lived there and devoted their whole lives to serving that community. They could have shut down their stores years ago when the town started going to shit, and they most certainly could have packed up and left after everything that happened last summer. But they didn’t, they stuck it out because they wanted to continue serving the remaining good citizens. And this is the thanks they get, their stores up in flames?

And who do you think those hooligans are really hurting, Len? With the Boston Tea Party it was the British that got a punch to the gut, and nobody else. But in Ferguson? Assuming the store owners had proper insurance, they’ll collect their insurance checks and get the hell out of there. It will mean fewer businesses in the community, which in turn means citizens will either have to travel farther for services and products they want or they’ll have to pay higher prices because of the less competition and because of even higher property insurance premiums paid by owners. So who’s getting screwed for all the destruction and looting Len? The citizens of Ferguson, that’s who.

My statement was saying that it was righteous, not necessarily rational, as expressions of anger rarely are rational. Thats the point, when people feel helpless, as one might expect by people that are reminded by certain happenstances that, in the face of the authorities their lives are worthless, then they will grab onto anything they can to maintain some semblence of a sense of their selves.

Same thing with the police cars that were destroyed. Do you think any of the police officers give a damn about destroyed cars? Of course not, why should they? They didn’t own them, they don’t hafta pay to replace them. It’s the citizens in Ferguson who own property that will hafta pay for those burned out cop cars, through higher property tax and budget cuts.

Thats making as good a case for the rioters being in the right than the establishment.

Was it a coincidence that the decision to have a much more passive approach by the police and military resulted in far worse violence, looting and rioting? If anything, last night’s violence more than justified the police and military tactics used during the days immediately after the shooting.

If I slapped you once a day for 10 days and then let up on the 11th you'd be a fool to not be planning to break my hand on that day.

It's hard to believe anyone doesn’t realize what happened last night in Ferguson not only didn’t help the citizens of that town, but it did irreparable longterm damage. More businesses will leave there, fewer business owners will want to open stores there. More law-abiding citizens will move out of there, fewer law-abiding citizens will want to move there. More good cops will want to leave the Ferguson force, fewer good cops will want to work there. It will all contribute to higher unemployment, lower property values and a higher cost of living, which in turn will make Ferguson’s crime index even worse than it’s current 6 rating.

For which the people in charge will stand and say 'well this is what you get when you fuck with us'. And they're still in the right.

But OK, you suggest a solution. What protest, placards? Yeah, cuz they get listened to right, they get big respect, you remember the thread on them? What else, get on the White House lawn and lobby Obama? I mean do you understand, this is the reaction of people who think, no, who KNOW that no one gives a shit about them, you think at that point they give a flying fuck about any of that shit? When you come to the realisation that you mean nothing...then what is there to be afraid of?

And it's people like THAT that worry the fellas in charge, people who don't give a fuck, cuz thats the only language they understand, as evidenced by the way they treat all the foreign nations they go up against, THATS what scares of comes at least some kinda half an inch towards ruffling their feathers, not no placards and tearful mothers and lobbying and calling for appeals and investigations, it's a fucking joke man.

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Protesting in itself isn't the problem. The looting and burning down of THEIR OWN COMMUNITY is. What purpose does it serve, to burn and loot innocent stores and houses of people who didn't have anything to do with the circumstances that happened. Seriously, what's going to come out of looting and burning down your own stores and business that will make your city money and jobs. It make no sense at all. It just going to make Ferguson look like a even worse place to live and less money for the community when all the business they looted and burned down get the hell out of there. Burning and looting wont be the kid back, or put the cop in jail, it won't accomplish anything but make you and your fellow community bad. Burning and looting stores and houses who have served you for years doesn't "stick it to man," it makes you look like savages and thugs. And in a year you'll be moving out to somewhere else because there be nothing left of Ferguson when you done scaring everyone out of it.

Assholes.

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Protesting in itself isn't the problem. The looting and burning down of THEIR OWN COMMUNITY is. What purpose does it serve, to burn and loot innocent stores and houses of people who didn't have anything to do with the circumstances that happened. Seriously, what's going to come out of looting and burning down your own stores and business that will make your city money and jobs. It make no sense at all. It just going to make Ferguson look like a even worse place to live and less money for the community when all the business they looted and burned down get the hell out of there. Burning and looting wont be the kid back, or put the cop in jail, it won't accomplish anything but make you and your fellow community bad. Burning and looting stores and houses who have served you for years doesn't "stick it to man," it makes you look like savages and thugs. And in a year you'll be moving out to somewhere else because there be nothing left of Ferguson when you done scaring everyone out of it.

Assholes.

Everybody knows when its wrong but nobody knows a solution, what would you have them do? Trying to rationalise it in terms of it being productive is stupid, its obvious that its not productive, the question is whether or not they were righteous in what they do, which i believe they are.

The whole point is its people that feel helpless that are lashing out, the fact that they feel helpless to a point where they'd destroy their own community because this is the only way they can think of to be seen and heard says something about the gravity of their plight.

In fact im not even sure they care to be seen and heard in the sense of some kind of contrived attempt to curry international support, its obviously not that, so what is it? A community expressing its anger at getting fucked.

You call it 'their own' community, well if their lives ain't safe no more, even their own lives dont belong to em so what the fuck are they gonna care about shops and buildings?

Its a specific rejection of and attack on a country that has failed them, not by accident or even for convenience...but because of prejudice, because of the fundamental belief on the parts of some that they are less human than them...and there's nothing they can do about it because the arbiters of justice are on the other teams side...exactly what do you do in that situation, sing cumbayah?

Edited by Lennie Godber
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Protesting in itself isn't the problem. The looting and burning down of THEIR OWN COMMUNITY is. What purpose does it serve, to burn and loot innocent stores and houses of people who didn't have anything to do with the circumstances that happened. Seriously, what's going to come out of looting and burning down your own stores and business that will make your city money and jobs. It make no sense at all. It just going to make Ferguson look like a even worse place to live and less money for the community when all the business they looted and burned down get the hell out of there. Burning and looting wont be the kid back, or put the cop in jail, it won't accomplish anything but make you and your fellow community bad. Burning and looting stores and houses who have served you for years doesn't "stick it to man," it makes you look like savages and thugs. And in a year you'll be moving out to somewhere else because there be nothing left of Ferguson when you done scaring everyone out of it.

Assholes.

Everybody knows when its wrong but nobody knows a solution, what would you have them do? Trying to rationalise it in terms of it being productive is stupid, its obvious that its not productive, the question is whether or not they were righteous in what they do, which i believe they are.

The whole point is its people that feel helpless that are lashing out, the fact that they feel helpless to a point where they'd destroy their own community because this is the only way they can think of to be seen and heard says something about the gravity of their plight.

In fact im not even sure they care to be seen and heard in the sense of some kind of contrived attempt to curry international support, its obviously not that, so what is it? A community expressing its anger at getting fucked.

You call it 'their own' community, well if their lives ain't safe no more, even their own lives dont belong to em so what the fuck are they gonna care about shops and buildings?

Its a specific rejection of and attack on a country that has failed them, not by accident or even for convenience...but because of prejudice, because of the fundamental belief on the parts of some that they are less human than them...and there's nothing they can do about it because the arbiters of justice are on the other teams side...exactly what do you do in that situation, sing cumbayah?

the thing is lenny their was no prejudice here, a cop was responding to a crime and was attacked. the grand jury was made up of people from the community and they said their was 0 evidence of any wrong doing on the cops part, the st louis police did an investigation, the feds came in and did their investigation and no wrong doing was found. black people came forward and collaborated the police officers story, the eye witness testimony of some contradicted the evidence. blood on the cops uniform, blood inside the car, blood of michael brown on the cops gun , 0 gun shot wounds to the back, michael brown just roughed up a clerk and stole from a convenience store what kind of mind do you think he was in when a cop stopped him?

what should have been done? just indict the cop just to do it, with 0 evidence against him? how is that right? reporters were asking some of the protesters about what if the evidence showed wilson was justified and numerous times the response was we dont care what the evidence shows. so what we sacrifice a cop who was doing his job and was attacked just to satisfy a mob that has some warped sense of what justice and injustice is in this case.

the demonstrators are vastly peaceful, they are protesting and doing it peacefully and like i said their message is a good one, there are a bunch of cases out there that you can bring up where injustice has occurred, the case where a black teen was killed when a cop thought his gun was a taser, or the black women who went to prison for firing a warning shot into the wall to scare her ex husband who threatened to kill and rape her, or the case in atlanta years ago where cops killed an elderly black women and planted drugs on her. or the infamous incident where cops in new orleans murdered a group of black people after katrina.

burning and smashing up shops in your town isnt going to fix things, driving more jobs and more businesses out of your town will not make your situation any better. it will only leave the area much worse off than before. the people who just lost their businesses and lost their jobs before the holidays had nothing to do with anything, they live in the community just the same, these people might even be against what happened. martin luther king junior marched on washington , he didnt stop and burn down someones house with moltavs or beat up a reporter or loot a store to make an impact. the amount of people and his words made the impact.

so how do i expect the demonstrators to act? i expect them to act like 99% of the demonstrators are acting, like civilized human beings not crazed lunatics hell bent on causing mayhem.

the cops need to lay off a bit as well and they seem to be doing a better job this go around. no need to stick assault weapons in the faces of innocent people walking the street going around in armored carriers to scare the people shitless or shooting tear gas into a group of journalists.

Edited by bran
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In the meantime, resolution at UN.10006183_762303160519704_361886440769529

That's exactly how a nation claiming free speech is treasured should vote. If we combat it, what's the difference between censoring it? Everyone has the right to an opinion, popular or not, as long as they way they express it does not infringe on the rights of others. I loathe the Westboro Baptists but they have every right to protest the way they do, deplorable as it is.

Also, that ever-troublemaking menace Canada voted no as well.

Edited by AxlisOld
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http://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2014/11/in-ferguson-riots-social-media-corrupts-mlks-message/

But obviously, something like this is going to go completely over the rioters heads and they still won't care. MLK Jr. used his words and knowledge to try and bring peace between blacks and whites. It sad that still, after all these years, we still have people screaming "racism" for anything that they don't find right.

Edited by GNR123GNR456
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the thing is lenny their was no prejudice here, a cop was responding to a crime and was attacked. the grand jury was made up of people from the community and they said their was 0 evidence of any wrong doing on the cops part, the st louis police did an investigation, the feds came in and did their investigation and no wrong doing was found. black people came forward and collaborated the police officers story, the eye witness testimony of some contradicted the evidence. blood on the cops uniform, blood inside the car, blood of michael brown on the cops gun , 0 gun shot wounds to the back, michael brown just roughed up a clerk and stole from a convenience store what kind of mind do you think he was in when a cop stopped him?

what should have been done? just indict the cop just to do it, with 0 evidence against him? how is that right? reporters were asking some of the protesters about what if the evidence showed wilson was justified and numerous times the response was we dont care what the evidence shows. so what we sacrifice a cop who was doing his job and was attacked just to satisfy a mob that has some warped sense of what justice and injustice is in this case.

It just seems to me that, oddly, whoevers right or wrong (and i'd be a fool to suggest it was always one side) it always ends up with a black lad with his arse blown out and the copper walking. The fact that you named a bunch of instances offhand where black folks had been cut a sour deal probably counts for a lot in the minds of people who flipped over this shit. I'm mean lets be real about this, there's a historical pattern of this shit and it's 2014 now and it's STILL going on, so clearly somethings wrong and it's that something that causes the people to trip, thats how I see it.

You're right, you can't just stick coppers inside with no accountability, thats just ridiculous but at the same time it's not exactly been a case of that over the years, has it? No one incident in and of itself causes a riot and looting and shit, it usually a build up of shit and the thing that lights the fuse is usually something like this...and details get lost in translation, like the fact Rodney King was pissed as fuck, coked up even...but that ain't really grounds enough to beat the fuckin' black off him, is it?

the demonstrators are vastly peaceful, they are protesting and doing it peacefully and like i said their message is a good one, there are a bunch of cases out there that you can bring up where injustice has occurred, the case where a black teen was killed when a cop thought his gun was a taser, or the black women who went to prison for firing a warning shot into the wall to scare her ex husband who threatened to kill and rape her, or the case in atlanta years ago where cops killed an elderly black women and planted drugs on her. or the infamous incident where cops in new orleans murdered a group of black people after katrina.

So you agree with the idea of protest or the expression of dissent you just don't agree with how they go about it? Well fair dues, we're kinda on the same page. I can't sit here and go i don't agree with it, i don't agree with these people being mad that one of those folks is in a hole in the ground now, ANOTHER one, i can't sit here and go 'they're wrong', i just can't, i don't have it in me to pass judgement on people responding angrily to such a fucked up and tragic thing, even more so when factoring in the history of this shit.

burning and smashing up shops in your town isnt going to fix things, driving more jobs and more businesses out of your town will not make your situation any better. it will only leave the area much worse off than before. the people who just lost their businesses and lost their jobs before the holidays had nothing to do with anything, they live in the community just the same, these people might even be against what happened. martin luther king junior marched on washington , he didnt stop and burn down someones house with moltavs or beat up a reporter or loot a store to make an impact. the amount of people and his words made the impact.

Man, it ain't like these guys kinda sat and had a round table conference and went 'whats the most productive proactive way we can respond to this percieved injustice' it's more like 'FUCK THIS! Again?!?!' You talk about Martin Luther King, well you might wanna have a look-see how he ended up, a man that stood for peaceful protest got cut down with a gun, THATS the lesson black America was taught about peaceful protest and where it gets ya.

The fact is nobody gives a shit, you can take all the petitions and fuckin' marches and lobbying and strongly worded letters and nobody gives a shit. Just like when Smiley Culture died, they're still lobbying for justice there and what is it, 4 members of his family going in and out of the Town Hall every few months begging for some justice...where does it get ya? They fuckin' pay attention when shits on fire though, even if it's just to condemn it, at least you got something to reply to, instead of a bunch of the varnished oak doors of justice slamming in your face. The fact that me and you, people from other sides of an ocean are discussing this is testament to that, otherwise how many black guys get fucked over by cops every year in America?

the cops need to lay off a bit as well and they seem to be doing a better job this go around. no need to stick assault weapons in the faces of innocent people walking the street going around in armored carriers to scare the people shitless or shooting tear gas into a group of journalists.

Christ, if i didn't know what we were talking about I might mistake that scene for the Brown Shirt Come To Town.

http://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2014/11/in-ferguson-riots-social-media-corrupts-mlks-message/

But obviously, something like this is going to go completely over the rioters heads and they still won't care. MLK Jr. used his words and knowledge to try and bring peace between blacks and whites. It sad that still, after all these years, we still have people screaming "racism" for anything that they don't find right.

And he was gunned down for it. Welcome to the fruits of peaceful protest. What about that other guy Gandhi? Oh yeah, shot and killed also. Do I see a pattern here? How about John Lennon? Not exactly a statesman or even on the same level of the aforementioned but an example nonetheless of the fact that peace is a very violent business.

Edited by Lennie Godber
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No it's not, it's a very pertinent point, you bring up Martin Luther King, an icon of peace among the black community, someone that really gave em hope and a positive message to rally around, a message that was noble to the point of approaching holy...well you can't get holier than he ended up. These are lessons of history, Medgar Evers was a lesson of history, Emmett Till was a lesson of history, Addie Mae Collins, Denise McNair, Carole Robertson and Cynthia Wesley are lessons of history.

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Len, this is just another one of those things where so many people in the US just cannot see how batshit insane the situation is because it has become so normalised to them.

I just add it to the list obesity, guns, racism, chemtrails, thinking Sarah Palin is a suitable Vice-President.

I just couldn't be arsed trying to reason anymore. Lost cause and all that.

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I'd have to be a cunt, as in love with America and their history and their music and their culture as i clearly am, to sit here and sincerely slag them off, outside of just muckin' about, i have respect for em to be honest, I just happen to be talking about one of their issues at the moment. I get what you mean though and Sarah Palin at least is evidence enough of profound insanitys prominence in the American psyche but :lol: Yeah, but rate em a lot too :lol:

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the thing is lenny their was no prejudice here, a cop was responding to a crime and was attacked. the grand jury was made up of people from the community and they said their was 0 evidence of any wrong doing on the cops part, the st louis police did an investigation, the feds came in and did their investigation and no wrong doing was found. black people came forward and collaborated the police officers story, the eye witness testimony of some contradicted the evidence. blood on the cops uniform, blood inside the car, blood of michael brown on the cops gun , 0 gun shot wounds to the back, michael brown just roughed up a clerk and stole from a convenience store what kind of mind do you think he was in when a cop stopped him?

what should have been done? just indict the cop just to do it, with 0 evidence against him? how is that right? reporters were asking some of the protesters about what if the evidence showed wilson was justified and numerous times the response was we dont care what the evidence shows. so what we sacrifice a cop who was doing his job and was attacked just to satisfy a mob that has some warped sense of what justice and injustice is in this case.

It just seems to me that, oddly, whoevers right or wrong (and i'd be a fool to suggest it was always one side) it always ends up with a black lad with his arse blown out and the copper walking. The fact that you named a bunch of instances offhand where black folks had been cut a sour deal probably counts for a lot in the minds of people who flipped over this shit. I'm mean lets be real about this, there's a historical pattern of this shit and it's 2014 now and it's STILL going on, so clearly somethings wrong and it's that something that causes the people to trip, thats how I see it.

You're right, you can't just stick coppers inside with no accountability, thats just ridiculous but at the same time it's not exactly been a case of that over the years, has it? No one incident in and of itself causes a riot and looting and shit, it usually a build up of shit and the thing that lights the fuse is usually something like this...and details get lost in translation, like the fact Rodney King was pissed as fuck, coked up even...but that ain't really grounds enough to beat the fuckin' black off him, is it?

the demonstrators are vastly peaceful, they are protesting and doing it peacefully and like i said their message is a good one, there are a bunch of cases out there that you can bring up where injustice has occurred, the case where a black teen was killed when a cop thought his gun was a taser, or the black women who went to prison for firing a warning shot into the wall to scare her ex husband who threatened to kill and rape her, or the case in atlanta years ago where cops killed an elderly black women and planted drugs on her. or the infamous incident where cops in new orleans murdered a group of black people after katrina.

So you agree with the idea of protest or the expression of dissent you just don't agree with how they go about it? Well fair dues, we're kinda on the same page. I can't sit here and go i don't agree with it, i don't agree with these people being mad that one of those folks is in a hole in the ground now, ANOTHER one, i can't sit here and go 'they're wrong', i just can't, i don't have it in me to pass judgement on people responding angrily to such a fucked up and tragic thing, even more so when factoring in the history of this shit.

burning and smashing up shops in your town isnt going to fix things, driving more jobs and more businesses out of your town will not make your situation any better. it will only leave the area much worse off than before. the people who just lost their businesses and lost their jobs before the holidays had nothing to do with anything, they live in the community just the same, these people might even be against what happened. martin luther king junior marched on washington , he didnt stop and burn down someones house with moltavs or beat up a reporter or loot a store to make an impact. the amount of people and his words made the impact.

Man, it ain't like these guys kinda sat and had a round table conference and went 'whats the most productive proactive way we can respond to this percieved injustice' it's more like 'FUCK THIS! Again?!?!' You talk about Martin Luther King, well you might wanna have a look-see how he ended up, a man that stood for peaceful protest got cut down with a gun, THATS the lesson black America was taught about peaceful protest and where it gets ya.

The fact is nobody gives a shit, you can take all the petitions and fuckin' marches and lobbying and strongly worded letters and nobody gives a shit. Just like when Smiley Culture died, they're still lobbying for justice there and what is it, 4 members of his family going in and out of the Town Hall every few months begging for some justice...where does it get ya? They fuckin' pay attention when shits on fire though, even if it's just to condemn it, at least you got something to reply to, instead of a bunch of the varnished oak doors of justice slamming in your face. The fact that me and you, people from other sides of an ocean are discussing this is testament to that, otherwise how many black guys get fucked over by cops every year in America?

the cops need to lay off a bit as well and they seem to be doing a better job this go around. no need to stick assault weapons in the faces of innocent people walking the street going around in armored carriers to scare the people shitless or shooting tear gas into a group of journalists.

Christ, if i didn't know what we were talking about I might mistake that scene for the Brown Shirt Come To Town.

http://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2014/11/in-ferguson-riots-social-media-corrupts-mlks-message/

But obviously, something like this is going to go completely over the rioters heads and they still won't care. MLK Jr. used his words and knowledge to try and bring peace between blacks and whites. It sad that still, after all these years, we still have people screaming "racism" for anything that they don't find right.

And he was gunned down for it. Welcome to the fruits of peaceful protest. What about that other guy Gandhi? Oh yeah, shot and killed also. Do I see a pattern here? How about John Lennon? Not exactly a statesman or even on the same level of the aforementioned but an example nonetheless of the fact that peace is a very violent business.

a black cop shot and killed an unarmed white kid just a couple of weeks ago. black kills white, white kills black all the time.

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