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Policing Thread


magisme

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I've seen a lot of powerful thoughts and feelings expressed today, both over social media and in person, and I wanted to just say a few things to warn everyone before they share their opinions.

There are some facts in this case that seem to be indisputable at this time. Those facts seem to suggest that no one was murdered in cold blood in Ferguson this summer. As someone who believes in facts and testimony, I firmly believe that this is the case.

I think the dialogue that has erupted across the world today is wonderful. I was relieved slightly of my anger and frustration this morning when I woke up to see my Facebook wall splattered in the thoughts and opinions of my friends about this historic case. But as the old saying goes, opinions are like assholes: everybody has one, and some people forget that they require a precise level of care and maintenance to avoid causing unnecessary offense.

For me, this case isn't about Darren Wilson. It isn't about the white male cop who shot a teenager under questionable circumstances, it's about the IDEA of Darren Wilson. That's what was on trial yesterday, and that's what we lost. There were a lot of questions on the table yesterday, of which I do not believe we got the answers we all deserved. How prevalent is racial profiling, and was this an example of it? Was deadly force in the number of gunshots fired necessary? Do we need to re-think the way we train and arm our police forces? Do we need to re-think the way we handle riots and emergency situations? Did the community leaders do enough to prevent this destruction? Was the rioting necessary, or an appropriate response? Did this young man deserve to die? And is the way we set up our infrastructure of power benefiting those who struggle, or are minorities, or does it set those people up for failure? Does the justice system work?

If this grand jury decision provided you with satisfactory answer to those questions, then I believe you have earned your opinion in siding with the decision yesterday. And if those questions still haunt you, if they still hang with you and if you are feeling the same hollowness that I do, then I also believe you have earned your opinion.

If these are not questions you have asked yourself, or if you believe this is a partisan issue, as some people have expressed today(using insults like 'liberal douchebag' or 'racist conservative') then I encourage you to do some research, and think about these things.

Nobody cares about Darren Wilson, because that's not what this narrative is about anymore. Darren Wilson is power in America, and Michael Brown is the impoverished and struggling. This is about how we do things as a society, and whether or not we are doing it the right way. Nobody rioted because Darren Wilson walked. Nobody rioted because they wanted a new TV. They rioted because their is a hand of power that hovers over some people their entire lives. It's hovered over some people for generations, hundreds of years. And they watched that power win yesterday.

Believing that Darren Wilson responded appropriately doesn't make you a racist, as long as you truly understand the implications of what happened and why. If that's what you believe then I hope it brings you comfort, and you have every right to express that opinion, and I encourage you to do so.

For me, I think some of those questions were either ignored, or not answered adequately by the grand jury. I hope we can find a way to fix these issues in America, and end the frustration some of our brothers and sisters are feeling with the system.

Keep the dialogue going. Talking about this is the only way to overcome it. But please make sure you're informed. Nobody likes a dirty asshole.

Oh, and the dude shoulda got manslaughter.

Edited by LiveFromNormal
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I've seen a lot of powerful thoughts and feelings expressed today, both over social media and in person, and I wanted to just say a few things to warn everyone before they share their opinions.

There are some facts in this case that seem to be indisputable at this time. Those facts seem to suggest that no one was murdered in cold blood in Ferguson this summer. As someone who believes in facts and testimony, I firmly believe that this is the case.

I think the dialogue that has erupted across the world today is wonderful. I was relieved slightly of my anger and frustration this morning when I woke up to see my Facebook wall splattered in the thoughts and opinions of my friends about this historic case. But as the old saying goes, opinions are like assholes: everybody has one, and some people forget that they require a precise level of care and maintenance to avoid causing unnecessary offense.

For me, this case isn't about Darren Wilson. It isn't about the white male cop who shot a teenager under questionable circumstances, it's about the IDEA of Darren Wilson. That's what was on trial yesterday, and that's what we lost. There were a lot of questions on the table yesterday, of which I do not believe we got the answers we all deserved. How prevalent is racial profiling, and was this an example of it? Was deadly force in the number of gunshots fired necessary? Do we need to re-think the way we train and arm our police forces? Do we need to re-think the way we handle riots and emergency situations? Did the community leaders do enough to prevent this destruction? Was the rioting necessary, or an appropriate response? Did this young man deserve to die? And is the way we set up our infrastructure of power benefiting those who struggle, or are minorities, or does it set those people up for failure? Does the justice system work?

If this grand jury decision provided you with satisfactory answer to those questions, then I believe you have earned your opinion in siding with the decision yesterday. And if those questions still haunt you, if they still hang with you and if you are feeling the same hollowness that I do, then I also believe you have earned your opinion.

If these are not questions you have asked yourself, or if you believe this is a partisan issue, as some people have expressed today(using insults like 'liberal douchebag' or 'racist conservative') then I encourage you to do some research, and think about these things.

Nobody cares about Darren Wilson, because that's not what this narrative is about anymore. Darren Wilson is power in America, and Michael Brown is the impoverished and struggling. This is about how we do things as a society, and whether or not we are doing it the right way. Nobody rioted because Darren Wilson walked. Nobody rioted because they wanted a new TV. They rioted because their is a hand of power that hovers over some people their entire lives. It's hovered over some people for generations, hundreds of years. And they watched that power win yesterday.

Believing that Darren Wilson responded appropriately doesn't make you a racist, as long as you truly understand the implications of what happened and why. If that's what you believe then I hope it brings you comfort, and you have every right to express that opinion, and I encourage you to do so.

For me, I think some of those questions were either ignored, or not answered adequately by the grand jury. I hope we can find a way to fix these issues in America, and end the frustration some of our brothers and sisters are feeling with the system.

Keep the dialogue going. Talking about this is the only way to overcome it. But please make sure you're informed. Nobody likes a dirty asshole.

Oh, and the dude shoulda got manslaughter.

great post live

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a black cop shot and killed an unarmed white kid just a couple of weeks ago. black kills white, white kills black all the time.

I brought to this thread months ago many, many facts and statistics that prove the majority of killings by police officers were not racially motivated, but of course it was mostly ignored just like the facts and evidence that resulted in last night's decision to not prosecute Wilson. As many of the angriest protesters/rioters/looters have already admitted, they don't give a damn about evidence or facts in this case.

But I'll post this again just for ha-ha's ...

http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

Of those killed by black officers, 78% were black

Of those killed by white officers, 46% were people of color

So tell me again why there's never been any riots after a black cop killed someone of color?

I've said this before and I'll say it again, the best way to rid police departments of supposed racist cops is integration. Add enough African-Americans to a police force and everybody is happy. So why isn't that happening? It's not like there's a long waiting list of folks anxious to patrol crime-infested towns like Ferguson.

Well from your stats posted, integration will lead to a lot more black deaths. Though those seem to be deaths that don't cause outrage.

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For me, this case isn't about Darren Wilson. It isn't about the white male cop who shot a teenager under questionable circumstances, it's about the IDEA of Darren Wilson. That's what was on trial yesterday, and that's what we lost.

So you want Wilson to pay the price for racist killings by white cops that occurred decades ago, eh? Yeah that sounds logical.

Just as logical as the members of the OJ jury saying they found him Not Guilty only because they "wanted to show white people what it feels like".

i just dont get what people really wanted out of this. the truth at the end of the day is michael brown is dead because of michael brown.

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For me, this case isn't about Darren Wilson. It isn't about the white male cop who shot a teenager under questionable circumstances, it's about the IDEA of Darren Wilson. That's what was on trial yesterday, and that's what we lost.

So you want Wilson to pay the price for racist killings by white cops that occurred decades ago, eh? Yeah that sounds logical.

Just as logical as the members of the OJ jury saying they found him Not Guilty only because they "wanted to show white people what it feels like".

No. I even said what I wanted, some questions answered. I said Darren Wilson represents an idea and that's what people are getting passionate about. His case is the catalyst for discussion that represents something bigger than him.

I just said in the next paragraph that I don't care what happens to Darren Wilson; and at the end I said he should have only been indicted for manslaughter, AND said that I didn't believe a murder happened in Ferguson that night.

It's just not ABOUT him.

Edited by LiveFromNormal
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Have you guys read the cop's (Wilson's) testimony yet?

Apparently Brown repeatedly attacked him, grabbed his gun, etc. And apparently the forensic evidence and now some witness testimonies, back his story up. If that's really what happened, I'm not so sure anyone should be really protesting this. And unlike popular belief, the cop wasn't necessarily "trigger happy". It's the first time he's ever used his gun.

After hearing his testimony, I'm not sure how I feel about this anymore. Still tragic, in any case.

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Have you guys read the cop's (Wilson's) testimony yet?

Apparently Brown repeatedly attacked him, grabbed his gun, etc. And apparently the forensic evidence and now some witness testimonies, back his story up. If that's really what happened, I'm not so sure anyone should be really protesting this. And unlike popular belief, the cop wasn't necessarily "trigger happy". It's the first time he's ever used his gun.

After hearing his testimony, I'm not sure how I feel about this anymore. Still tragic, in any case.

wilson quit firing his gun when brown turned around and didnt start firing again until brown ran at the cop, brown landed only a few feet from the police officer. the problem is race baiters always paint things in black vs white. every race kills every other race every day no one cries for them, but when the media and the al sharptons of the world get a hold of a story run the story with rumors, assumptions and false information instead of facts this is what you get. its always the same white cop who is a skinhead wanted to kill a poor black kid just for kicks, finds the always innocent never in the wrong angel from up high, and just executed him in broad daylight.

Edited by bran
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A guy who got in an altercation with a police officer, got shot by that police officer.

Maybe the police officer should not have used lethal force, seeing as the guy he struggled with wasn't armed or threatening with lethal force himself. Totally valid debate right there.

This is all this should be about, and nothing more.

But no, the guy was black, the officer was white, WELL WE GOT A STORY HERE FOLKS, LETS ACT LIKE ITS FUCKING 1960 AGAIN.

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The civil rights spokesmen, Michael Browns father, media talking heads, etc. should all make the message of this tragedy in Missouri a teaching message to their children.


Instead of teaching them that if you see an injustice burn the town down, grab a bat and break store windows, run inside and pillage, like wild animals at the zoo.


This Planet of The Apes Part III movie playing out on Television aint helping.


instead


Teach your children that if you rob a store, brazenly and intimidatingly rob an innocent store owner in broad daylight, then walk down the middle of a busy street holding up traffic with the loot in your hand, then punch a cop in the face and try to take his weapon away when he approaches you, you might just get shot.....wtf


Michael Brown was not only a thug, he was a dumb ass. and God rest his troubled soul but can you please use his tragic end to teach your children,


instead of trying to make everything and all things racial.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U


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I don't care about Michael Brown. At all. Fuck that kid.

I care about this lady:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ke6z9a5QOQ[/media]

This shit is driving me crazy. There are obviously real issues here, however it's cheapened by everyone getting behind the wrong person.

Yeah I said it.

Edited by Jackie Moon
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I don't care about Michael Brown. At all. Fuck that kid.

I care about this lady:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ke6z9a5QOQ[/media]

This shit is driving me crazy. There are obviously real issues here, however it's cheapened by everyone getting behind the wrong person.

Yeah I said it.

exactly this is the type of shit that pisses me off, yet all the energy and resources are placed on the person or situation. people completely ignored the case where a women in florida shot a warning shot into the wall beside her ex husband who threatened to rape and kill her. the guy runs off the women runs off and gets in her car and fleas away from him, she got 60 years in prison for that. after 3 years they commuted her sentence and she got out, but where was the outrage for that women?

you have the homeless guy in new orleans getting the shit kicked out of him by the cops and threatening to arrest people who video taped it. or this case where a bunch of cops beat the shit out of a person that was already handcuffed.

Edited by bran
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exactly this is the type of shit that pisses me off, yet all the energy and resources are placed on the person or situation. people completely ignored the case where a women in florida shot a warning shot into the wall beside her ex husband who threatened to rape and kill her. the guy runs off the women runs off and gets in her car and fleas away from him, she got 60 years in prison for that. after 3 years they commuted her sentence and she got out, but where was the outrage for that women?

you have the homeless guy in new orleans getting the shit kicked out of him by the cops and threatening to arrest people who video taped it. or this case where a bunch of cops beat the shit out of a person that was already handcuffed.

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/208477-police-kill-unarmed-black-guy-again/page-34#entry3887294I

but #justiceforMikeBrown :facepalm:

Edited by Jackie Moon
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fucked up the link

a few of the police the town over from me got into huge trouble when they kept tasering a guy saying he "was resisting" when in reality the guy was going into a seizure, they kept tasering him even into the hospital until the doctor told them he was having a fucking seizure.

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Have you guys read the cop's (Wilson's) testimony yet?

Apparently Brown repeatedly attacked him, grabbed his gun, etc. And apparently the forensic evidence and now some witness testimonies, back his story up. If that's really what happened, I'm not so sure anyone should be really protesting this. And unlike popular belief, the cop wasn't necessarily "trigger happy". It's the first time he's ever used his gun.

After hearing his testimony, I'm not sure how I feel about this anymore. Still tragic, in any case.

Great post.

Unfortunately there will always be people who love to be outraged at everything that happens in the world, and people who love to hate on the police.

The jury got ALL the evidence - things the rest of us haven't seen yet. So for anybody to sit back and say the jury was wrong - without going through all the facts themselves........

How many police are there in the US? How many calls do they go out on each year? But people take the actions of a the extreme minority and then paint the other hundreds of thousands of cops with the same brush - it's just stupid and unfair.

And looting and tearing down your own community is "not" the way to get your message heard. Regardless of how surpressed you think you've been in life. Regardless of those who are romantazing (not the proper word, but you get what I mean) the situation, I'd be willing to bet the majority of the looting is over anger and a chance to destroy and get free crap. I don't think most of the looters are saying "I'm bashing in this window and stealing these TVs because the white man has been unfair to me my entire life."

We really need Val22's take on this.

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Have you guys read the cop's (Wilson's) testimony yet?

Apparently Brown repeatedly attacked him, grabbed his gun, etc. And apparently the forensic evidence and now some witness testimonies, back his story up. If that's really what happened, I'm not so sure anyone should be really protesting this. And unlike popular belief, the cop wasn't necessarily "trigger happy". It's the first time he's ever used his gun.

After hearing his testimony, I'm not sure how I feel about this anymore. Still tragic, in any case.

Great post.

Unfortunately there will always be people who love to be outraged at everything that happens in the world, and people who love to hate on the police.

The jury got ALL the evidence - things the rest of us haven't seen yet. So for anybody to sit back and say the jury was wrong - without going through all the facts themselves........

How many police are there in the US? How many calls do they go out on each year? But people take the actions of a the extreme minority and then paint the other hundreds of thousands of cops with the same brush - it's just stupid and unfair.

And looting and tearing down your own community is "not" the way to get your message heard. Regardless of how surpressed you think you've been in life. Regardless of those who are romantazing (not the proper word, but you get what I mean) the situation, I'd be willing to bet the majority of the looting is over anger and a chance to destroy and get free crap. I don't think most of the looters are saying "I'm bashing in this window and stealing these TVs because the white man has been unfair to me my entire life."

We really need Val22's take on this.

So... The cop was the reason there was a gun at the scene?

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Have you guys read the cop's (Wilson's) testimony yet?

Apparently Brown repeatedly attacked him, grabbed his gun, etc. And apparently the forensic evidence and now some witness testimonies, back his story up. If that's really what happened, I'm not so sure anyone should be really protesting this. And unlike popular belief, the cop wasn't necessarily "trigger happy". It's the first time he's ever used his gun.

After hearing his testimony, I'm not sure how I feel about this anymore. Still tragic, in any case.

Same here. Though in the end what really went down wont matter, it's the underlying racism and conflict that is still very much alive in the US that has now come to the forefront with the protest and riots. Had it not been the Brown case, it would have been another one.

Statistics show that while only 13 % of the US population is black, 40 % of the prison population is black. The increase of poverty and job loss also alarming. People could just well be protesting and rioting because of Michael Brown's death and Wilson could be very much innocent. It wont matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFXtZGyWVp8

Edited by Bumblefeet
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Have you guys read the cop's (Wilson's) testimony yet?

Apparently Brown repeatedly attacked him, grabbed his gun, etc. And apparently the forensic evidence and now some witness testimonies, back his story up. If that's really what happened, I'm not so sure anyone should be really protesting this. And unlike popular belief, the cop wasn't necessarily "trigger happy". It's the first time he's ever used his gun.

After hearing his testimony, I'm not sure how I feel about this anymore. Still tragic, in any case.

Based on what I've read, I would tend to agree. I don't think this was the best case to riot for, and Michael Brown shouldn't be the symbol for the injustice that does sometimes occur.

A rookie cop just shot and killed a black guy walking down the stairs of a dark hallway with his girlfriend last week. Even the police commissioner said the guy was completely innocent and the cop just got spooked because he couldn't see. Really? Why an officer who has been on the force for only a little over a year is assigned to one of the shittiest neighborhoods in Brooklyn, and obviously not properly trained for such situations, is beyond me. And while it's still under investigation, it's being viewed as an accident. Just seems to me that if there is a need to protest and highlight the sort of problems that exist in certain communities, this instance would serve as a better example.

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In the meantime, resolution at UN.10006183_762303160519704_361886440769529

That's exactly how a nation claiming free speech is treasured should vote. If we combat it, what's the difference between censoring it? Everyone has the right to an opinion, popular or not, as long as they way they express it does not infringe on the rights of others. I loathe the Westboro Baptists but they have every right to protest the way they do, deplorable as it is.

Also, that ever-troublemaking menace Canada voted no as well.

We are talking about glorification of Nazism, racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia. I believe that you are well aware what that same glorification has brought to the world ~80 years ago. That said, I am pretty sure glorification mention above will lead to violations of the rights of others, the most distinctive, right to life.

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  • 4 months later...

Since this went so well the first time....

(Reuters) - Demonstrators rallied on Wednesday against what they described as a culture of police brutality in South Carolina in the case of a white officer caught on video killing a black man by shooting him in the back as the man ran away after a traffic stop.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/08/us-usa-south-carolina-shooting-idUSKBN0MY28220150408

The video is out there to see. Not sure if we should post it on the forum.

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Since this went so well the first time....

(Reuters) - Demonstrators rallied on Wednesday against what they described as a culture of police brutality in South Carolina in the case of a white officer caught on video killing a black man by shooting him in the back as the man ran away after a traffic stop.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/08/us-usa-south-carolina-shooting-idUSKBN0MY28220150408

The video is out there to see. Not sure if we should post it on the forum.

Stupid pig even tried claiming that the guy was trying to grab his taser. Sad thing is he would have gotten away with it if there were no cell phones.
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