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This I Love - Erin, Seymour or other?


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Why are you people so fucking dumb?

There is printed evidence that was reported on IN THIS VERY THREAD, and it's something I've said many times in the past, that PROVES this song is NOT about Stephanie Seymour.

Yet you idiots are still like "It's clearly about Seymour."

Christ, you're dumb. Just cause you WANT it to be about a specific person doesn't make it true.

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It's very telling that the people who despise This I Love (and Chinese generally) and think it's weak/sappy/Disney/cliche etc tend to be the same people who support the old band, clamor for a reunion and want Axl/the old and to write more Appetite-style riff-rock with similar subject matter.

That's a huge stretch. I just find the songs to be a low grade sappy ballad along the likes of "Unbreak My Heart" or some shit like that. The verses sound like nursery rhymes written by a 9 year old.

November Rain is a far more accomplished love song..stunning lyrics, song construction and sentiment, no mention of Slash required even if he does take the song even higher.

"This I Love" is Axl's self pity dial turned up to 11 and as a result we get a song better left for a death scene in a day time TV hospital drama.

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I don't have the time or inclination .......

Great post.

It is actually the Ill never say goodbye line that makes me think. Never say goodbye, makes think never? It's like she's dead. But his mother dead later i think. Then there's that story about how Erin wouldn't even say goodbye to Axl.

But your stuff about Seymour as the ideal woman fits and the time it was written. It might be a composite but I think your right.

Although the her hearts the same she holds the pain inside is very Erin/Axl. Seymour seems more like a siren than being in pain.

SOD, TWAT, Prostitute seem like the Seymour trilogy.

I guess as a Rosé song it is a target and example of what AFD hard rock metal fans didn't want. UYI has some but it's balanced out by YCBM or whatever. TIL is Axl is going all the way out there where "the band" or that engine and chemistry isn't used. Even less than Nov Rain. If the World and Peostitute are the same in different way. Some people got over it, some like it. Guns meant a lot to them or they just hate it that much.

It comes from the same place of emotional honesty as anything on AFD. It's not so different from UYI material IMO.

The idea of a composite could work. He was playing an early version of it in his piano solo at shows in 1991 so it clearly began with Erin. We don't know how far he got with the demo of it that he talked about when he was still with Seymour, we don't know what the lyrics were or if they changed over time. I assume it was the same demo that Tommy and Robin heard and said 'you have got to do that one for Chinese.'

I really like the idea of SoD, Twat and Prostitute as the Seymour trilogy. Axl himself said that he hoped that one day Steph's son, Dylan, would hear the album and hear his side of the story and not judge him so badly. Is Dylan meant to read old Hit Parader and RIP interviews from 91-93 to try and figure out the timeline of the songs and which ones are about his mom?

Putting myself in Axl's shoes, if i'm writing and recording these songs like Twat, SoD and others we haven't heard yet about the greatest love of my life who i've been depressed over for years, and then I pull out another unrequited love demo to work on from my previous ex, am I gonna switch gears and start channeling her to bring new life to the song 10+ years later? I don't buy it. It may have been started as a piano demo about Erin but by the time he built the song with the new band he's been heartbroken over Steph for years and it's on the album with a bunch of Steph songs.

And another thing: Slash rolled his eyes and said he didn't want to do 'any more Stephanie Seymour ballads'. That doesn't prove anything in itself but unless there were other demos in 93-95 about Steph it's fair to assume he could have been thinking about TIL.

Dude, the 'Ill never say goodbye' ending.....if one day Axl tells us that it's about Erin; he was thinking about Erin when he recorded it with the new band and he was thinking about Erin when he sang his heart out with 100% rasp in 2010 then i'll put my hand up and apologise for being so adamant that it's Steph. But it ain't no way in hell his mom.

About the SoD, Twat, Prostitute trilogy. He talked to Baz about there being a trilogy of songs across several albums. I don't think there's a trilogy on Chinese.

I find the Prostitute lyrics to be the only lyrics on the album that are somewhat opaque. I started a thread ages ago to try and figure out exactly what it means and nobody really helped. I don't think it's about a woman, or even a composite. It's about the breakup of the band, the name, his intentions,

I really don't understand the criticisms of the lyrics. Songs like Twat, Locomotive and NR deal with details and specifics about situations. TIL is an emotional howl into the void. They serve a different purpose.

If the people who think they're so bad told me some of their favourite lyrics I could pull out some lyrics by Dylan, Cohen or some verse by Larkin or Milton and say 'hey, these make your favourite lyrics look like something a kid wrote in math class.'

Or you could take a shitload of blues songs. Here, i'll make one up:

I went down to the crossroads

Saw my baby leavin' town

Oh yeah, I went down to the crossroads

Saw my baby leavin' town

Something's tellin' me

She ain't gon' come back around

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I always thought it was his mom.

Beta or the old one?
The old one.

Why are you people so fucking dumb?

There is printed evidence that was reported on IN THIS VERY THREAD, and it's something I've said many times in the past, that PROVES this song is NOT about Stephanie Seymour.

Yet you idiots are still like "It's clearly about Seymour."

Christ, you're dumb. Just cause you WANT it to be about a specific person doesn't make it true.

Damn dude. Chill out.
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The song has one good moment, the Robin Finck guitar solo moment..

What makes that solo so effective is the contrast, the backdrop of the piano, the delicacy of the strings. Its the way it emerges out of that palate that makes it resonate so heavily and sound so vital

Why are you people so fucking dumb?

There is printed evidence that was reported on IN THIS VERY THREAD, and it's something I've said many times in the past, that PROVES this song is NOT about Stephanie Seymour.

Yet you idiots are still like "It's clearly about Seymour."

Christ, you're dumb. Just cause you WANT it to be about a specific person doesn't make it true.

What printed evidence are you referring to?

Personally, I've always leaned more towards it being about Erin, or a composite. Its the she holds her pain inside line that makes me seriously doubt that its about Steph.

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Why are you people so fucking dumb?

There is printed evidence that was reported on IN THIS VERY THREAD, and it's something I've said many times in the past, that PROVES this song is NOT about Stephanie Seymour.

Yet you idiots are still like "It's clearly about Seymour."

Christ, you're dumb. Just cause you WANT it to be about a specific person doesn't make it true.

What a pest

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I don't have the time or inclination .......

Great post.

It is actually the Ill never say goodbye line that makes me think. Never say goodbye, makes think never? It's like she's dead. But his mother dead later i think. Then there's that story about how Erin wouldn't even say goodbye to Axl.

But your stuff about Seymour as the ideal woman fits and the time it was written. It might be a composite but I think your right.

Although the her hearts the same she holds the pain inside is very Erin/Axl. Seymour seems more like a siren than being in pain.

SOD, TWAT, Prostitute seem like the Seymour trilogy.

I guess as a Rosé song it is a target and example of what AFD hard rock metal fans didn't want. UYI has some but it's balanced out by YCBM or whatever. TIL is Axl is going all the way out there where "the band" or that engine and chemistry isn't used. Even less than Nov Rain. If the World and Peostitute are the same in different way. Some people got over it, some like it. Guns meant a lot to them or they just hate it that much.

It comes from the same place of emotional honesty as anything on AFD. It's not so different from UYI material IMO.

The idea of a composite could work. He was playing an early version of it in his piano solo at shows in 1991 so it clearly began with Erin. We don't know how far he got with the demo of it that he talked about when he was still with Seymour, we don't know what the lyrics were or if they changed over time. I assume it was the same demo that Tommy and Robin heard and said 'you have got to do that one for Chinese.'

I really like the idea of SoD, Twat and Prostitute as the Seymour trilogy. Axl himself said that he hoped that one day Steph's son, Dylan, would hear the album and hear his side of the story and not judge him so badly. Is Dylan meant to read old Hit Parader and RIP interviews from 91-93 to try and figure out the timeline of the songs and which ones are about his mom?

Putting myself in Axl's shoes, if i'm writing and recording these songs like Twat, SoD and others we haven't heard yet about the greatest love of my life who i've been depressed over for years, and then I pull out another unrequited love demo to work on from my previous ex, am I gonna switch gears and start channeling her to bring new life to the song 10+ years later? I don't buy it. It may have been started as a piano demo about Erin but by the time he built the song with the new band he's been heartbroken over Steph for years and it's on the album with a bunch of Steph songs.

And another thing: Slash rolled his eyes and said he didn't want to do 'any more Stephanie Seymour ballads'. That doesn't prove anything in itself but unless there were other demos in 93-95 about Steph it's fair to assume he could have been thinking about TIL.

Dude, the 'Ill never say goodbye' ending.....if one day Axl tells us that it's about Erin; he was thinking about Erin when he recorded it with the new band and he was thinking about Erin when he sang his heart out with 100% rasp in 2010 then i'll put my hand up and apologise for being so adamant that it's Steph. But it ain't no way in hell his mom.

About the SoD, Twat, Prostitute trilogy. He talked to Baz about there being a trilogy of songs across several albums. I don't think there's a trilogy on Chinese.

I find the Prostitute lyrics to be the only lyrics on the album that are somewhat opaque. I started a thread ages ago to try and figure out exactly what it means and nobody really helped. I don't think it's about a woman, or even a composite. It's about the breakup of the band, the name, his intentions,

I really don't understand the criticisms of the lyrics. Songs like Twat, Locomotive and NR deal with details and specifics about situations. TIL is an emotional howl into the void. They serve a different purpose.

If the people who think they're so bad told me some of their favourite lyrics I could pull out some lyrics by Dylan, Cohen or some verse by Larkin or Milton and say 'hey, these make your favourite lyrics look like something a kid wrote in math class.'

Or you could take a shitload of blues songs. Here, i'll make one up:

I went down to the crossroads

Saw my baby leavin' town

Oh yeah, I went down to the crossroads

Saw my baby leavin' town

Something's tellin' me

She ain't gon' come back around

Closer to home DC and Nov Rain have similar lyrics to TIL, even Patience. But it's a step further maybe.

You don't know what you got TIL it's gone! The difference is Axls lyrics are much better and his vocals much better than Joey Cinderella.

Maybe Prostitute is more the no sell out song. I'd convinced myself Madagascar was the band closure, TIL Erin finale, Prostitute Seymour kiss off. Because she sold herself to the highest bidder leaving herself behind.

Fresh intel. Shacklers, Atlas, The General is the new trilogy. We are the shackled, we shrugged, we are the general that don't matter. Axl did say one song was going to be on the third record. Atlas has to be on the next record. Maybe the general will be saved as its the sequel to Estranged.

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I don't have the time or inclination .......

Great post.

It is actually the Ill never say goodbye line that makes me think. Never say goodbye, makes think never? It's like she's dead. But his mother dead later i think. Then there's that story about how Erin wouldn't even say goodbye to Axl.

But your stuff about Seymour as the ideal woman fits and the time it was written. It might be a composite but I think your right.

Although the her hearts the same she holds the pain inside is very Erin/Axl. Seymour seems more like a siren than being in pain.

SOD, TWAT, Prostitute seem like the Seymour trilogy.

I guess as a Rosé song it is a target and example of what AFD hard rock metal fans didn't want. UYI has some but it's balanced out by YCBM or whatever. TIL is Axl is going all the way out there where "the band" or that engine and chemistry isn't used. Even less than Nov Rain. If the World and Peostitute are the same in different way. Some people got over it, some like it. Guns meant a lot to them or they just hate it that much.

It comes from the same place of emotional honesty as anything on AFD. It's not so different from UYI material IMO.

The idea of a composite could work. He was playing an early version of it in his piano solo at shows in 1991 so it clearly began with Erin. We don't know how far he got with the demo of it that he talked about when he was still with Seymour, we don't know what the lyrics were or if they changed over time. I assume it was the same demo that Tommy and Robin heard and said 'you have got to do that one for Chinese.'

I really like the idea of SoD, Twat and Prostitute as the Seymour trilogy. Axl himself said that he hoped that one day Steph's son, Dylan, would hear the album and hear his side of the story and not judge him so badly. Is Dylan meant to read old Hit Parader and RIP interviews from 91-93 to try and figure out the timeline of the songs and which ones are about his mom?

Putting myself in Axl's shoes, if i'm writing and recording these songs like Twat, SoD and others we haven't heard yet about the greatest love of my life who i've been depressed over for years, and then I pull out another unrequited love demo to work on from my previous ex, am I gonna switch gears and start channeling her to bring new life to the song 10+ years later? I don't buy it. It may have been started as a piano demo about Erin but by the time he built the song with the new band he's been heartbroken over Steph for years and it's on the album with a bunch of Steph songs.

And another thing: Slash rolled his eyes and said he didn't want to do 'any more Stephanie Seymour ballads'. That doesn't prove anything in itself but unless there were other demos in 93-95 about Steph it's fair to assume he could have been thinking about TIL.

Dude, the 'Ill never say goodbye' ending.....if one day Axl tells us that it's about Erin; he was thinking about Erin when he recorded it with the new band and he was thinking about Erin when he sang his heart out with 100% rasp in 2010 then i'll put my hand up and apologise for being so adamant that it's Steph. But it ain't no way in hell his mom.

About the SoD, Twat, Prostitute trilogy. He talked to Baz about there being a trilogy of songs across several albums. I don't think there's a trilogy on Chinese.

I find the Prostitute lyrics to be the only lyrics on the album that are somewhat opaque. I started a thread ages ago to try and figure out exactly what it means and nobody really helped. I don't think it's about a woman, or even a composite. It's about the breakup of the band, the name, his intentions,

I really don't understand the criticisms of the lyrics. Songs like Twat, Locomotive and NR deal with details and specifics about situations. TIL is an emotional howl into the void. They serve a different purpose.

If the people who think they're so bad told me some of their favourite lyrics I could pull out some lyrics by Dylan, Cohen or some verse by Larkin or Milton and say 'hey, these make your favourite lyrics look like something a kid wrote in math class.'

Or you could take a shitload of blues songs. Here, i'll make one up:

I went down to the crossroads

Saw my baby leavin' town

Oh yeah, I went down to the crossroads

Saw my baby leavin' town

Something's tellin' me

She ain't gon' come back around

Closer to home DC and Nov Rain have similar lyrics to TIL, even Patience. But it's a step further maybe.

You don't know what you got TIL it's gone! The difference is Axls lyrics are much better and his vocals much better than Joey Cinderella.

Maybe Prostitute is more the no sell out song. I'd convinced myself Madagascar was the band closure, TIL Erin finale, Prostitute Seymour kiss off. Because she sold herself to the highest bidder leaving herself behind.

Fresh intel. Shacklers, Atlas, The General is the new trilogy. We are the shackled, we shrugged, we are the general that don't matter. Axl did say one song was going to be on the third record. Atlas has to be on the next record. Maybe the general will be saved as its the sequel to Estranged.

What do you think about IRS and Sorry?

Composites?

Someone in particular?

Fans? Band? Industry?

What a great record. So much depth, intrigue, mystique. Aliens will be deciphering these lyrics millennia from now. The alternate covers and artwork are like the missing books of the Bible.

Edited by Mr. Dude
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I don't have the time or inclination .......

Great post.

It is actually the Ill never say goodbye line that makes me think. Never say goodbye, makes think never? It's like she's dead. But his mother dead later i think. Then there's that story about how Erin wouldn't even say goodbye to Axl.

But your stuff about Seymour as the ideal woman fits and the time it was written. It might be a composite but I think your right.

Although the her hearts the same she holds the pain inside is very Erin/Axl. Seymour seems more like a siren than being in pain.

SOD, TWAT, Prostitute seem like the Seymour trilogy.

I guess as a Rosé song it is a target and example of what AFD hard rock metal fans didn't want. UYI has some but it's balanced out by YCBM or whatever. TIL is Axl is going all the way out there where "the band" or that engine and chemistry isn't used. Even less than Nov Rain. If the World and Peostitute are the same in different way. Some people got over it, some like it. Guns meant a lot to them or they just hate it that much.

It comes from the same place of emotional honesty as anything on AFD. It's not so different from UYI material IMO.

The idea of a composite could work. He was playing an early version of it in his piano solo at shows in 1991 so it clearly began with Erin. We don't know how far he got with the demo of it that he talked about when he was still with Seymour, we don't know what the lyrics were or if they changed over time. I assume it was the same demo that Tommy and Robin heard and said 'you have got to do that one for Chinese.'

I really like the idea of SoD, Twat and Prostitute as the Seymour trilogy. Axl himself said that he hoped that one day Steph's son, Dylan, would hear the album and hear his side of the story and not judge him so badly. Is Dylan meant to read old Hit Parader and RIP interviews from 91-93 to try and figure out the timeline of the songs and which ones are about his mom?

Putting myself in Axl's shoes, if i'm writing and recording these songs like Twat, SoD and others we haven't heard yet about the greatest love of my life who i've been depressed over for years, and then I pull out another unrequited love demo to work on from my previous ex, am I gonna switch gears and start channeling her to bring new life to the song 10+ years later? I don't buy it. It may have been started as a piano demo about Erin but by the time he built the song with the new band he's been heartbroken over Steph for years and it's on the album with a bunch of Steph songs.

And another thing: Slash rolled his eyes and said he didn't want to do 'any more Stephanie Seymour ballads'. That doesn't prove anything in itself but unless there were other demos in 93-95 about Steph it's fair to assume he could have been thinking about TIL.

Dude, the 'Ill never say goodbye' ending.....if one day Axl tells us that it's about Erin; he was thinking about Erin when he recorded it with the new band and he was thinking about Erin when he sang his heart out with 100% rasp in 2010 then i'll put my hand up and apologise for being so adamant that it's Steph. But it ain't no way in hell his mom.

About the SoD, Twat, Prostitute trilogy. He talked to Baz about there being a trilogy of songs across several albums. I don't think there's a trilogy on Chinese.

I find the Prostitute lyrics to be the only lyrics on the album that are somewhat opaque. I started a thread ages ago to try and figure out exactly what it means and nobody really helped. I don't think it's about a woman, or even a composite. It's about the breakup of the band, the name, his intentions,

I really don't understand the criticisms of the lyrics. Songs like Twat, Locomotive and NR deal with details and specifics about situations. TIL is an emotional howl into the void. They serve a different purpose.

If the people who think they're so bad told me some of their favourite lyrics I could pull out some lyrics by Dylan, Cohen or some verse by Larkin or Milton and say 'hey, these make your favourite lyrics look like something a kid wrote in math class.'

Or you could take a shitload of blues songs. Here, i'll make one up:

I went down to the crossroads

Saw my baby leavin' town

Oh yeah, I went down to the crossroads

Saw my baby leavin' town

Something's tellin' me

She ain't gon' come back around

Closer to home DC and Nov Rain have similar lyrics to TIL, even Patience. But it's a step further maybe.

You don't know what you got TIL it's gone! The difference is Axls lyrics are much better and his vocals much better than Joey Cinderella.

Maybe Prostitute is more the no sell out song. I'd convinced myself Madagascar was the band closure, TIL Erin finale, Prostitute Seymour kiss off. Because she sold herself to the highest bidder leaving herself behind.

Fresh intel. Shacklers, Atlas, The General is the new trilogy. We are the shackled, we shrugged, we are the general that don't matter. Axl did say one song was going to be on the third record. Atlas has to be on the next record. Maybe the general will be saved as its the sequel to Estranged.

What do you think about IRS and Sorry?

Composites?

Someone in particular?

Fans? Band? Industry?

What a great record. So much depth, intrigue, mystique. Aliens will be deciphering these lyrics millennia from now. The alternate covers and artwork are like the missing books of the Bible.

All the mysteries will be thoroughly explained on Axl's autobiography. Soon is the word.

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and Axl said his followers If you think you're more of dick than me you've got a lot to learn. Axl braiding his hair was like Samson in reverse he was like backed way the fuck up follicle wise. Then on the release he just unleashed the corn.

I think the whole album is a multiple perspective postmodern artwork. Each song is a composite. Personal/Universal. Retro/contemporary. Everything about it is a contradiction in terms, a musical oxymoron for the 21st century. A geopolitical break up album and homage to rock history.

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The song has one good moment, the Robin Finck guitar solo moment..

What makes that solo so effective is the contrast, the backdrop of the piano, the delicacy of the strings. Its the way it emerges out of that palate that makes it resonate so heavily and sound so vital

Why are you people so fucking dumb?

There is printed evidence that was reported on IN THIS VERY THREAD, and it's something I've said many times in the past, that PROVES this song is NOT about Stephanie Seymour.

Yet you idiots are still like "It's clearly about Seymour."

Christ, you're dumb. Just cause you WANT it to be about a specific person doesn't make it true.

What printed evidence are you referring to?

Personally, I've always leaned more towards it being about Erin, or a composite. Its the she holds her pain inside line that makes me seriously doubt that its about Steph.

If you had actually read all the posts in this thread you would see what I'm referring to.

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The song has one good moment, the Robin Finck guitar solo moment..

What makes that solo so effective is the contrast, the backdrop of the piano, the delicacy of the strings. Its the way it emerges out of that palate that makes it resonate so heavily and sound so vital

Why are you people so fucking dumb?

There is printed evidence that was reported on IN THIS VERY THREAD, and it's something I've said many times in the past, that PROVES this song is NOT about Stephanie Seymour.

Yet you idiots are still like "It's clearly about Seymour."

Christ, you're dumb. Just cause you WANT it to be about a specific person doesn't make it true.

What printed evidence are you referring to?

Personally, I've always leaned more towards it being about Erin, or a composite. Its the she holds her pain inside line that makes me seriously doubt that its about Steph.

If you had actually read all the posts in this thread you would see what I'm referring to.

I'm not disagreeing with you dude. I've never thought the song was about Stephanie specifically. I'm genuinely curious as to what printed evidence you're referring to in particular. Why not just tell me so I don't have to read every single post?

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http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/208694-this-i-love-erin-seymour-or-other/?p=3832640

I've had that issue of Hit Parader in question since it was published in 1993. He mentions Stephanie, by name, as his current gf several times in the article.

Just because he wrote a love song, doesn't mean it's about a specific person. Love songs, feeling of loss, all that shit is universal. He was probably just tapping into his own life expriences, his influences, and he wrote what he thought was "the heaviest thing he's ever written." Doesn't mean it's about a specific girl or incident. He didn't indicate that in his quotes at the time

Axl, feel free to jump in and clarify, since you're the only one who really knows, but the only actual physcial evidence we have indicates it wasn't about her specifically, and for lack of anything else more concrete we should accept that and not make baseless speculations like so many automatically do despite the fact that this info has been out there for over 20 years.

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Instrumental origins from 1991-93-ish. Vocals later - I'd guess with multiple meanings as with all his vocals. His mom died though, and I suspect that was one significant influence to the lyrics. "Found myself within her eyes"? Hello.

Blame shit on lost loves all you guys want, because surely that is what it is, but I think you overopinionated may be wrong (as usual)..

His mom died in 1996 from cancer, right?

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I don't mind TIL. I don't think Axl's vocals are bad, just not the same guy we all knew in 1991. Not necessarily a bad thing by the way.

Perhaps it's a combination of both Erin and Stephanie. I guess he felt pretty strongly for both and when they both left him, he had such a heartache that it is conceivable that this song is for both.

Prostitute, on the other hand, I firmly believe is about the "no reunion" stance, Slash, and his reasons for taking the name. "Ask yourself what I would do to prostitute myself to live with fortune and shame." That line is clearly about a reunion, as that would make him even more filthy rich, yet it would be against his wishes, therefore the "shame" remark.

I'm almost sure Sorry is about Slash, the fans, and possibly former managers. "I'll kick your ass like I said that I would." "You know where to put your just shut up and sing." Slash? Azoff? Perhaps both. The line "nobody owes you not one goddamn thing" is clearly aimed at the fans. We want a reunion (most of us) and we bitch about it, but Axl is saying he doesn't owe us anything. I think that mindset is horse shit but whatever.

Chinese Democracy, while not living up to the standards of Guns N' Roses, is a deeply emotional and soul searching record, full of longing for past loves, past glories, and future promises that, so far, remain unfulfilled.

Edited by SlashisGOD
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I'm kind of going back to it being Erin "never say goodbye" as Axl at least talked about that in relation to her.

New theory: Axl's muse?

Not specific just something that comes and goes, he's singing about his artistic moods? That might be it's proximity to Prostitute too though. I see those as a couplet, TIL really sets up Prostitute, almost like it's an intro. It would be epic if they play these two together and then at the end of Prostitute they finished with a TIL Reprise.

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I don't mind TIL. I don't think Axl's vocals are bad, just not the same guy we all knew in 1991. Not necessarily a bad thing by the way.

Perhaps it's a combination of both Erin and Stephanie. I guess he felt pretty strongly for both and when they both left him, he had such a heartache that it is conceivable that this song is for both.

Prostitute, on the other hand, I firmly believe is about the "no reunion" stance, Slash, and his reasons for taking the name. "Ask yourself what I would do to prostitute myself to live with fortune and shame." That line is clearly about a reunion, as that would make him even more filthy rich, yet it would be against his wishes, therefore the "shame" remark.

I'm almost sure Sorry is about Slash, the fans, and possibly former managers. "I'll kick your ass like I said that I would." "You know where to put your just shut up and sing." Slash? Azoff? Perhaps both. The line "nobody owes you not one goddamn thing" is clearly aimed at the fans. We want a reunion (most of us) and we bitch about it, but Axl is saying he doesn't owe us anything. I think that mindset is horse shit but whatever.

Chinese Democracy, while not living

That's key, people who miss the 91 Axl of badass, see TIL as a symbol of everything that has changed. And maybe it is, but it's not necessarily bad.

I think the songs become, or they seem to work to make them universal, so in the end anyone can relate to them. It can't too specific.

Prostitute is definitely no reunion/sell out stance. But then the line "I told you when I found you all that amounts to is love that you pay for with perversion and pain" to me that's sounds like…this is kind of a long shot…it sounds like Axl didn't want or like Seymour being a model, like selling her body to the world, he wanted to settle down with her. He tried to convince her not to prostitute her self.

The principle works with people and in the music business the same.

"My Fortunate one, the envy of youth" - models are lucky to look a certain way and are the envy of teenagers of both sexes. So again I think there's a person in there as well as the artistic statement.

Happens all the way through album.

Chi Dem - First part band politics, last rant political.

Shackler's - Flip flops between Axl chastising chick/fans for not supporting him/repsonse to mr Brownstone shooter accusations.

Better - About a band member that left or chick or about how Beta helps him see.

SOD - How the old band left themselves behind works as well as Seymour.

TWAT - Lines about a fight in a relationship, long time for the fans etc.

Catcher - a message to the fans about his struggles with fame or the cinematic Lennon tribute

Scraped - Confessions of a bi polar lifestyle or a band anthem of definace

Riad - Political rant or attack on band or personal attack on Erin's cousin

Sorry - Slash, media, fans, maybe even the same ex he's been singing about.

IRS - I got a letter from government the other day, I open and read it, it said they were suckers. Or the denial or investigation of band member leaving/chick.

Madagascar - political rallying call against oppression or band, maybe even recovery from said failed relationship.

TIL - Erin, Steph, Mother, Muse

Prostitute - reunion or bemoaning ex for being a prostitute.

chinese democracy, you're free to do what you want but your artistic soul forces you to write about pain and frustration mostly. It's an ironic freedom.

Edited by wasted
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What a great record. So much depth, intrigue, mystique. Aliens will be deciphering these lyrics millennia from now. The alternate covers and artwork are like the missing books of the Bible.

I have heard it all!!

Awesome! I expect you'll be retiring from the forums in peace now? Or at the very least donating and coming to Attitude where there just may be a few things you haven't heard? Just a few though.

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What a great record. So much depth, intrigue, mystique. Aliens will be deciphering these lyrics millennia from now. The alternate covers and artwork are like the missing books of the Bible.

I have heard it all!!

Awesome! I expect you'll be retiring from the forums in peace now? Or at the very least donating and coming to Attitude where there just may be a few things you haven't heard? Just a few though.

The missing booklet of Chinese Democracy equating, the Biblical apocrypha? Come on!! Guns N' Roses really need to pull their head out of the sand concerning that record.

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