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An example of what's wrong with today's music and the industry as a whole


Bono

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We are just in the privileged position of being post culture. So we look down and back of things judging. We think today's stuff is too sexy but they thought Elvis was a threat.

Once The Beatles invented rock there's this pop/rock debate. We can look back and say GNR were real artists and Like a Prayer is just a whore in front of a cross.

Recently it's been Lady gaga v Avenged Sevenfold.

I don't mean like a competition. I mean when we look back well say there were these real bands like Avenged/GNR/Zepp get recognised for true talent now we just have holograms of whores.

Edited by wasted
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As someone who listens to music ranging from the 40s till present day, I honestly think that there is a greater output of good music now then ever. It's just not on the charts. But it's easily accessible.

You can just fucking do anything these days and put it up on Soundcloud. It doesn't have to make any sense. It doesn't have to make money. You can just sign to an indie label or no label at all and do whatever the fuck you want. And that opens doors for real musicians who are passionate about what they do that were never available to them in previous decades.

This is a great era for musicians. When you push big labels aside so many opportunities open up.

A lot of people fear that kinda attitude, they think it kinda provincial and the concern becomes that it's like the ghetto-ization of music where everything it kind kept and controlled in it's little compartment and the whole set up becomes really cliquey and music, people want something universal, something that speaks to a great many. Music isn't art in the way like...i dunno, painting and shit is, it's also a huge commercial enterprise and a lot of the impetus for a lot of people getting into bands was a certain lifestyle, yeah that could be considered shallow etc but i also think some of those people are folks who bought a lot of fun into music were kinda of that attitude. When less music is made to appeal to the masses then less people are gonna be into music, stands to reason.

This, I think, is why music at the moment is kinda getting compartmentalised, SOOOOO many people are reaching the 'artist' in themselves that they don't give a shit about the audience when it's like hang on you motherfucker, you're supposed to be entertaining me, people don't wanna pay tickets to see some twat 'experiment' onstage, fuckin' experiment in the studio or at home and then when the experiments successful show me it and I'll tell you if it's bollocks or not by way of applause.

I think a lot more hard work went into the shit when it was lucrative. Nowadays, why bother making an album every year, fuck it, do it at your leisure, as a hobby, in between being an IT Consultant or something, fuck that.

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It's a producer dominated music industry and a singles market. People are probably more likely to go to a club and see a reality TV standing in front of a laptop waving their arms, than see a band in a sweaty club. Festivals are the only place an up and coming band has any chance of being heard. People can collaborate virtually and not even have to be in the same country to work on an album.

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Great era for musicians to expose ther music, yes. Great era for musicians to make money, not so sure. (big acts aside)

This. Hardest era to make a LIVING as a musician by far. Super easy to get your music out there though.

Way to sum it up in two sentences.

One of my son's friends is a musician. And he has about 20 songs on Soundcloud. As well as a self produced (him, at his house) CD that has probably sold about 8 copies.

Yes, it's great that it's easier for artists to get their music out there. BUT it also has taken away a filter that used to weed out the sh*t. Same thing with self publishing your own book or putting your e-copy book on Amazon.

20 years ago you could pick up a book or a CD by an unknown artist and know that you were probably getting something of fairly high quality. You might end up not liking it or thinking the author/artist sucked or that they weren't your cup of tea. But you knew that it was released by an actual artist. Today, there is no filter or first line of defense that weeds out the truly crappy stuff that really has no business taking up space.

Oh, I've got a relative who self-published his own book on Amazon. His parents and gf and his best friend all say it's the best book in the history of books. So I bought a copy and there is literally a spelling or grammar mistake on almost every page. It's terrible. If he would have submitted it to a publishing company they would have read the first paragraph and rejected it. Dude didn't even have somebody edit the book for mistakes. BUT he had $1,500 to pay for Amazon to produce a couple hundred copies and sell it on line. And now he talks about how he's published his first novel and his working on his second. NO dude. You wrote a story, which not only sucked but has spelling errors on almost every page, you paid to have it published, and the worst publishing company in the world would have laughed and told you to get the hell out of their office and stop wasting their time. But for him and his parents - he has published a novel. And my son's friend has "released an album, and is dropping his new single next week."

There no longer is a filter to weed out the real crap.

Same thing with Podcasts. I got into them a couple years ago and there were some real high quality podcasts. Now? There are still some really high quality podcasts. But now you have to wade through 100 really bad ones to find the gold nuggets.

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It's a producer dominated music industry and a singles market.

Which, oddly enough, is pretty close to where the music industry was in the oh-so great 60s.

Len, are you a fan of the du-wop (I think that's what it's called) era? Last night I added about 30 songs to my IPOD. Songs like Dream Lover, At The Hop, There Goes My Baby, Wonder World, Chain Gang, Johnny Be Good, Sam Cooke, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Elmore James, etc.

It's funny - or interesting - to listen to singles from those artists.......then to put on Anaconda by Nikki Minaj or the new TI song that's main line is something like "my n*ggas know I only f*ck the hottest b*tches."

I know that those artists like TI and Minaj and Kanye probably give high praise to the old legends and probably say they influenced their music careers. But I wonder what Chuck Berry and Sam Cooke would say if heard a song like Anaconda.

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It's a producer dominated music industry and a singles market.

Which, oddly enough, is pretty close to where the music industry was in the oh-so great 60s.

Len, are you a fan of the du-wop (I think that's what it's called) era? Last night I added about 30 songs to my IPOD. Songs like Dream Lover, At The Hop, There Goes My Baby, Wonder World, Chain Gang, Johnny Be Good, Sam Cooke, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Elmore James, etc.

It's funny - or interesting - to listen to singles from those artists.......then to put on Anaconda by Nikki Minaj or the new TI song that's main line is something like "my n*ggas know I only f*ck the hottest b*tches."

I know that those artists like TI and Minaj and Kanye probably give high praise to the old legends and probably say they influenced their music careers. But I wonder what Chuck Berry and Sam Cooke would say if heard a song like Anaconda.

Is it that different though? I mean you couldn't get sexually explicit in those days so they got as explicit as they possibly could without outright coming out with it but really now, is there a lot of difference thematically? For Dre is a 64 Imapala or a 600 Benz (shows how old I am :lol:) and for Chuck Berry is a coffee coloured Cadillac or in Ike Turner case his Rocket 88. My Ding-a-ling anyone? Or like, in the old days it's headed to the sock hop ball and now it's all up in the club. Snoop sings about slappin' hoes, Little Walter gave us boom boom, out goes the light (about smacking his girl when he catches up to her and she's been playing around)...or Champagne and Reefer by Muddy Water, how different is that to songs about 40s and blunts? Or singing about prison and incarceration and the woes of poverty.

In fact, to kids of the 50s, thats what appealed to a lot of em about this stuff, instead of like Sinatra and 'How Much Is That Doggie In The Window' and all this musical hall sing-a-long 40s and early 50s stuff you had these people singing about girls and cars and getting loaded and having a good time. It's kind of a bit more coarse now but thats only because we've evolved and, the idea is, people ain't really like...y'know, it's only little kids that listen to cursing or some off key shit and are like *gasp* 'didja hear what he said?!?!' *snicker snicker*, no one gives a shit.

One thing i will say is that the repression of that era kinda helped them develop their artistic muscle in that they had to find clever ways of getting that shit in...but what they were looking to say were not like...a million miles from the stuff you're citing.

You gotta remember these weren't no wilting wallflowers, they were hard drinking, hard fucking, hard drugging ne'er do wells, you wanna read up about the life of people like Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye etc, they make some of these rappers look like bitches in comparison.

Edited by Lennie Godber
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Oh I get that. But do you think it's a good thing?

When our mom's listened to those artists, it was innuendos and I wanna hold your hand. When our teenagers listen to the billboard top 40 it's "I wanna f*ck you, n*gga. If you ugly you can suck my d*ck, but this n*gga don't f*ck nobody unless they are 10s, n*gga."

Elvis could shake his hips a bit and send girls into a frenzy. Now Miley or Nicki or Iggy is naked or wearing completely see thru tops, making out with other chicks, performing stimulated sex acts with other women or guys.

Do you think that evolution is a good thing?

And why do you think it's evolved like it has. I know music is all about sex, drugs, love, angst, etc. But I'll still put up Stand By Me and Johnny Be Good against anything released this month.

Or how about this - do you think that Cooke, Berry, Elvis, say the top 10 artists of that generation. If you moved them to present time - would they be successful with their brand of music? And if you moved Minaj and Iggy and Keisha and Kayne back to 1955, and they couldn't say "n*gga" 35 times in each song and talk about f*cking hoes and b*tches..........could they still be successful?

(I'm not trying to argue with you or anything. Just curious what you think).

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Cultural slang has always existed in music. The derogatory stuff isn't the norm and I'm sure some of it's just to get your attention. People who are having kids at 15-16 and having kids with different dads isn't the norm except in poor neighborhoods or communes.

Most of those performers from today would never have been able to cut it in the 50s when you had to do it live, but anyone could spend a few bucks to cut a record. Elvis' first record was one of those deals.

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Oh I get that. But do you think it's a good thing?

When our mom's listened to those artists, it was innuendos and I wanna hold your hand. When our teenagers listen to the billboard top 40 it's "I wanna f*ck you, n*gga. If you ugly you can suck my d*ck, but this n*gga don't f*ck nobody unless they are 10s, n*gga."

Elvis could shake his hips a bit and send girls into a frenzy. Now Miley or Nicki or Iggy is naked or wearing completely see thru tops, making out with other chicks, performing stimulated sex acts with other women or guys.

Do you think that evolution is a good thing?

Well yes i suppose it is, more freedom, thats never a bad thing. It is a bad thing when it just makes it so people rest of their laurels and go for like, y'know, just the easy route of tits and arse etc but then the mainstream has always done that, exploit the thing that has money in it for as long as possible. It's all good fun isn't it, harmless, playful, jokey.

And why do you think it's evolved like it has.

Firstly cuz there's money in it, secondly because as parameters loosen culture reflects this and thirdly because it's easy. Sexuality is a governing aspect of the human condition, it is always going to be prominent in culture and art, we're kinda defined by it in a way.

Or how about this - do you think that Cooke, Berry, Elvis, say the top 10 artists of that generation. If you moved them to present time - would they be successful with their brand of music? And if you moved Minaj and Iggy and Keisha and Kayne back to 1955, and they couldn't say "n*gga" 35 times in each song and talk about f*cking hoes and b*tches..........could they still be successful?

With the greatest respect, and i do mean that cuz i like you, thats just silly man, how can i answer that? What would happen in this hypothetical world, i don't know, it wouldn't work, in either direction. Both parties would have to change immense sections of what they do to be pallettable in the modern age or the distant past i guess.

But this idea of like 'Yeah but could you still make good music without 'x'?' when X is one of the primary aspects of their act. It's like saying 'oh Eminem, great rapper...but answer me this, what if he had to play the Farfiza organ?', well it's not his job is it? Could you do your thing without using these words, those words, that type of dress, thats their act, thats what they do, what you're asking is akin to saying could a given person do their thing the same when heavily handicapped, well no they couldn't, thats obvious. Could Ali dance on one foot, could Linford Christie run as fast with a beer gut, could Jesus have walked on water if he wasn't Gods son and was just some apprentice barber from Bethlehem.

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I wonder if kids are actually listening to the music today, or if they just like it because it's "cool" to like it.

The only reason I say this is the other night I was at the cinema, and this teenager walks in with his girl, with an earphone in one ear. It stayed in his ear for the whole movie.

It just got me thinking, when was the last time this guy actually LISTENED to what was being piped into his ear.

I'm listening to music now as I type, but would struggle to name anymore than 1 of the last 3 songs that played, because I've been focused on typing this. Or maybe people just multitask better these days.

Or maybe I should have been paying more attention to the movie...

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