Jesus never existed

[WFA]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1504964/jesus-never-existed/

[arnold layne]

[DieselDaisy]

He is mentioned in Tacitus and Suetonius and they are both pagan sources.

Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

[Chewbacca]

Of course not, that was the name of the velociraptor species that saved humans from daleks back in the day. Some idiot invented a story with a guy resurrecting and shit because of dinossaur prejudice.

[maynard]

Raptor Jesus is real.

[Snake-Pit]

Of course Jesus existed, and maybe he wasn't the result of a virgin birth, but a Roman solider who had his way with Mary and that might have traumatised her or, she and Joesph might have lied, for fear of the Romans. That's why he looked kind of white/European.

I think.

There are records of his crucifixion in the Vatican I believe. Jesus of Nazareth.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Snake-Pit

[luciusfunk]

[Strange Broue]

who cares?

[Len Cnut]

Of course Jesus existed, and maybe he wasn't the result of a virgin birth, but a Roman solider who had his way with Mary and that might have traumatised her or, she and Joesph might have lied, for fear of the Romans. That's why he looked kind of white/European.

I think.

.

If you can explain how you came up with that without the reply being a load of bollocks i'll find you where you are today and give you a million quid

[The Sandman]

DD nails it: there's no doubt he existed, just as to whether he was the son of God.

[dalsh327]

It's possible he existed but there's probably other stories incorporated into his life.

They can't even get modern history accurate, I don't expect 2000 year old info to be much better.

[Len Cnut]

History is not recorded, it is designed.

[spliff]

[Use Your Delusion 1]

probably existed, no divinity though, just a good man

[DieselDaisy]

"Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome."

Understand that the Romans did not give a shit about Christianity at this time. They had a hard time differentiating it from Judaism - but then, it was basically a branch of Judaism until St Paul started converting gentiles. The Romans for instance made some rather hysterical interpretations of Christian rite and theology such as mistaking the Eucharist for Cannibalism. To Rome, Jews and Christians alike were a big pain in the arse. In other words, there is no reason why pagan sources such as Tacitus and Suetonius would maintain, a 'Jesus lie'.

We also know that Pontius Pilate existed because of the Pilate stone which confirms he was prefect of Judaea during the reign of Tiberius.

[LightningBolt]

Not directly related to the topic, but just the early history of Christianity. I'm reading Revelations by Elaine Pagels for my history course right now, and so many of these early Christian figures were manipulative bastards if this book is any close to being accurate. It's actually pretty interesting stuff.

[Len Cnut]

I'd like to read that, sounds interesting.

[axlslash]

"Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome."

Understand that the Romans did not give a shit about Christianity at this time. They had a hard time differentiating it from Judaism - but then, it was basically a branch of Judaism until St Paul started converting gentiles. The Romans for instance made some rather hysterical interpretations of Christian rite and theology such as mistaking the Eucharist for Cannibalism. To Rome, Jews and Christians alike were a big pain in the arse. In other words, there is no reason why pagan sources such as Tacitus and Suetonius would maintain, a 'Jesus lie'.

We also know that Pontius Pilate existed because of the Pilate stone which confirms he was prefect of Judaea during the reign of Tiberius.

They couldn't differentiate because there was nothing to differentiate between. The Judean hills at the time were filled with Jewish messianic sects, all of whom believed that their leader was the Messiah. Most of the Christ narrative (virgin birth, reincarnated after 3 days, etc) has been paralleled in other Messianic texts found in the area. "Christianity" (more accurately, the first followers of Jesus; "Christianity" as defined by the First Ecumenical Council bears very little similarity to Jesus' actual followers or their beliefs) at the time was probably just the most influential and potentially threatening of those sects, based on the writings of he Romans at the time.

[Not An FSB Agent]

He is mentioned in Tacitus and Suetonius and they are both pagan sources.

Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

And in the original: Sed non ope humana, non largitionibus principis aut deum placamentis decedebat infamia, quin iussum incendium crederetur. ergo abolendo rumori Nero subdidit reos et quaesitissimis poenis adfecit, quos per flagitia invisos vulgus Chrestianos appellabat. auctor nominis eius Christus Tibero imperitante per procuratorem Pontium Pilatum supplicio adfectus erat; repressaque in praesens exitiablilis superstitio rursum erumpebat, non modo per Iudaeam, originem eius mali, sed per urbem etiam, quo cuncta undique atrocia aut pudenda confluunt celebranturque. igitur primum correpti qui fatebantur, deinde indicio eorum multitudo ingens haud proinde in crimine incendii quam odio humani generis convicti sunt. et pereuntibus addita ludibria, ut ferarum tergis contecti laniatu canum interirent aut crucibus adfixi [aut flammandi atque], ubi defecisset dies, in usu[m] nocturni luminis urerentur. hortos suos ei spectaculo Nero obtulerat, et circense ludicrum edebat, habitu aurigae permixtus plebi vel curriculo insistens. unde quamquam adversus sontes et novissima exempla meritos miseratio oriebatur, tamquam non utilitate publica, sed in saevitiam unius absumerentur.

The Annals, Book XV:XLIV

English translation

[Facekicker]

Of course Jesus existed, and maybe he wasn't the result of a virgin birth, but a Roman solider who had his way with Mary and that might have traumatised her or, she and Joesph might have lied, for fear of the Romans. That's why he looked kind of white/European.

I think.

There are records of his crucifixion in the Vatican I believe. Jesus of Nazareth.

[Ace Nova]

Other than what DieselDaisy has stated, something along the lines of 98%-99% of Historians (You know, the people that study history, historical figures, historical accuracy, etc for a living), agree that Jesus existed and yes, He was a real person.

/Thread....this isn't even debatable.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Kasanova King

[Val22]

I read a book years ago called "The Passover Plot" It was about Jesus being born to believe he was the divine son of God. He was told by Mary and Joseph that he was God's son and was raised to preach the word of God.

The book explained some of the miracles that Jesus performed. For example, walking on the water. The Hebrew word for by and on were similar and whoever told the story took the word to be "on" instead of by.

Mostly I remember him being a good man and realizing when he was stabbed by the Roman soldier with that sword, that his whole life was a lie. The book also said that after 3 days, some of Jesus' family and friends took his body and buried it on some island.

I just remember this book sounding like it could be true. Being raised Roman Catholic and going to Catholic school for 7 years, I know I was asking questions about the Bible and some of the things I was told. I also learned that none of the nuns nor any priests would answer my questions. They said to just believe. Well, after awhile the church just wasn't that important to me.

I was told later on by a friend that Father, Son and the Holy Spirit were the same person. The Father being God, The Son being Jesus who was actually God on earth and finally the Holy Spirit being risen again and went to Heaven. This made sense to me. I honestly believe that some man wrote the Bible since it's told by a man's point of view.

To this day, I'm not all that sure. I think if there is a God, he's like any parent who tries to raise their children the correct way, but not all children listen.

In the Bible God destroyed dishonest men and women multiple times through flood and plaques. I think that if God has done this before, why hasn't he done it again? Or has he? With HIV, Aids, now ebola and floods and tsunami and earthquakes, I think it's possible that God has been sending his messages to man, but like always man has chosen to ignore it and do what he wants.

I know we have free will, but honestly, I think as the years go by man has just gotten worse and worse and destroying the earth all in the name of God. I don't think that's the way Jesus would have wanted it.

[Dazey]

The Bible 2: 2014

"Sooooooo, son of God you say? Right lads get the restraints, we've got ourselves another one!"

The End.

[Len Cnut]

The Bible 2: 2014

"Sooooooo, son of God you say? Right lads get the restraints, we've got ourselves another one!"

The End.

In Russell Brands Messiah Complex he tells you bout this bug house in Jerusalem where they bung all the nutters that show up there that reckon themselves Jesus Sounds like a hilairious place He's like 'the cruelest thing you could do to someone who reckons they're Jesus is bung em in a room full of other blokes who also reckon they're Jesus'

[SoulMonster]

Whether Jesus existed or not is pretty uninteresting, it is whether he was the son of god sent to earth to be tortured to remove humans' sin (why weren't humans' tortured instead?)...expect it didn't because we keep on "sinning" as if Jesus never got crucified...okay, I admit I never understood that part of Christian theology, anyway, that is the really relevant aspect of Jesus' existence. That is the crucial question. And Jesus son of God is not the answer. Jesus son of God is the question. No is the answer.

Edited October 2, 2014 by SoulMonster