Axl Rose 1995-2001 era

[maynard]

The fire wasn't there? TSI is a cover album recorded while they were on tour. That album proves nothing. Sorry.

Fine (you ignored its relatively poor sales denoting that an album of straight ahead rockers wouldn't have been popular), factor in the similar failure of IFAS. If Slash had his way, the next Guns album would have been that with Axl vocals. Telling me it would have been a classic album or a big hit?

TIL going platinum constitutes as poor sales

Let him rewrite history man. It's what make them happy...

[WFA]

The fire wasn't there? TSI is a cover album recorded while they were on tour. That album proves nothing. Sorry.

Fine (you ignored its relatively poor sales denoting that an album of straight ahead rockers wouldn't have been popular), factor in the similar failure of IFAS. If Slash had his way, the next Guns album would have been that with Axl vocals. Telling me it would have been a classic album or a big hit?

TIL going platinum constitutes as poor sales

Let him rewrite history man. It's what make them happy...

If 1,000,000 sales in the US is poor sales, what would 614,00 be considered?

[Nosaj Thing]

The fire wasn't there? TSI is a cover album recorded while they were on tour. That album proves nothing. Sorry.

Fine (you ignored its relatively poor sales denoting that an album of straight ahead rockers wouldn't have been popular), factor in the similar failure of IFAS. If Slash had his way, the next Guns album would have been that with Axl vocals. Telling me it would have been a classic album or a big hit?

TIL going platinum constitutes as poor sales

Let him rewrite history man. It's what make them happy...

Sometimes you just have to ignore the crazy shit they're talking because you, somehow, realize that they do believe what they're saying and, trying to be rational with them would be a completely waste of time.

[D-GenerationX]

I'd be as happy as a clam if CD2 was just the same as CD1.

I just want it to come out, because there are bound to be a few tunes I really dig.

I don't think CD stands up to AFD or the UYI records, apples to apples. But there are a handful of CD tunes I really like.

That's all I'm hanging around for. Don't expect a brilliant opus, top to bottom. Do think I can get a few tunes I dig.

[Gackt]

I'm expecting to pop up online one day "Chinese Democracy: The Complete Demos", over a hundred so-called albums of compiled instrumentals, studio wankery and demos

Reading that link with the entire history of CD gives the impression that they recorded Chinese Democracy tens of times over, on top of re-recording older tunes..there was a comment from Beta somewhere in the mess that made it sound like there were more than three albums already recorded

Axl's an odd, odd man

Edited October 14, 2014 by Gackt

[Apollo]

I'd be as happy as a clam if CD2 was just the same as CD1.

I just want it to come out, because there are bound to be a few tunes I really dig.

I don't think CD stands up to AFD or the UYI records, apples to apples. But there are a handful of CD tunes I really like.

That's all I'm hanging around for. Don't expect a brilliant opus, top to bottom. Do think I can get a few tunes I dig.

That's the entire point.

If Axl had released five albums in the last twenty years, and each album had 3-4 songs that everybody liked........then his post-Slash career would be pretty darn solid. Most people agree that Better, Catcher and Twat are the highlights of CD. If we had 15-20 songs of the caliber of those three songs, every conversation we have about Axl and GnR would be much different than it is now. But when you release one album every 20-plus years, it's hard to make a greatest hits package out of it.

[Lim666]

Better and exspecially Catcher aint the highlights for many fans, dont get it wrong.

[jmapelian]

Reading those GNR Evo pages make it so clear Slash, Duff, Matt and even fucking Izzy all tried hard to make GNR work. While Axl was hiring Moby, Chris Vrenna and Zakk Wylde to make GNR sound trendy and cool. What an idiot.

I don't agree with that 100%. Sure, Axl seemed to be struggling as to what the next GNR record should sound like that, but Slash also seems determined that the next GNR record should be pretty much what It's Five O'Clock Somewhere ended up being.

"Then, Slash got big-headed and just took them all [back]... After being out on the road and playing in front of hundreds of thousands of people, it starts to go to your head... Just because Axl didn’t want all of them didn’t mean he didn’t wanna work with some of them." (Marc Canter, Legendary Rock Interviews, 04/22/12)

Clash of egos, clash of visions. It was two men who wanted to lead the band.

Slash makes it clear he was sick of ballads and didn't want to work on something like This I Love:

"Then [Axl] decided his solo-project he could do with Guns, which I was like, after doing all those videos and this and that and the other, I was like: "No". [laughs] No, I don't wanna get involved in any kind of Stephanie Seymour ballads or any of that shit." (Slash, Canadian Radio, 04/20/95)

And Axl made it clear he didn't want IFOS to be the next album:

"What people don't know is, the [slash's] Snakepit album, that is the Guns N' Roses album. I just wouldn't do it.'" (Axl, MTV, 11/08/99)

"I answered: 'But this could be a excellent Gunner-record, hundred percent in GN'R style.'" (Slash, 'Rock Hard' Magazine, 03/00)

"And I didn't believe in it. I thought that there were riffs and parts and some ideas, I thought, that needed to be developed. I had no problem working on it, or working with it, but you know, as is, I think I'm with the public on that one." (Axl, MTV, 11/08/99)

"Axl was into at least three of [the Snakepit demos], and maybe four." (Marc Canter, Legendary Rock Interviews, 04/22/12)

It goes back to the point DieselDaisy made in the Top GNR songs thread. With Appetite, you have songs like Nightrain where the band works together as a whole. By the UYIs, you got a mix of Izzy ditties, Axl ballads, and Slash rockers (with a token Duff tune), with contributions from other band members added afterwards.

I agree with Marc that if they'd gone off to do their own thing on better terms, they could have come back and made a great GNR record after getting their solo efforts out of their system (like Slash was suggesting with Axl, though I think it applied to all of them). Only one I could never see and can never see ever being part of GNR full-time after '91 is Izzy, he seems intimidated by the arena rock band thing and wants to do his own thing with occasional guest appearances, fair enough.

All you hear about is It's 5 O'Clock Somewhere in all these interviews; but nothing else anyone was working on; because Axl and the rest of them brought jack shit to the table. How can you say Slash was stubborn when nobody else had anything to talk about?! It's always baffled me.

Neither party were willing to put up with each others' shit. One was a strung out junkie and the other was a moody asshole. Fame and money did more damage to their working relationship than either expected or foresaw.

maybe but slash was a strung out junkie that was always productive, always on time, and always made it to rehersals anbd the show and had a 12 song album worked up? what did axl have other than an unspecified vision?

The fire wasn't there? TSI is a cover album recorded while they were on tour. That album proves nothing. Sorry.

Fine (you ignored its relatively poor sales denoting that an album of straight ahead rockers wouldn't have been popular), factor in the similar failure of IFAS. If Slash had his way, the next Guns album would have been that with Axl vocals. Telling me it would have been a classic album or a big hit?

Guarantee it would have done better than chinese democracy

Axl disappeared bc of the media turned on him. That's not a joke it went from Axl the rock star to Axl the asshole.

His ex wife and former girlfriend went to court against him for abuse, he had very private details shared about him in this case that made him look like a psycho wife beater. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it but it would be hard to face a public trail like this.

He had a ton of pressure to get the ball rolling on a new GNR record but Axl is a sensitive person. Don't push him to do something while he's already down. He needed someone to listen to him and talk to him about his personal life instead of demanding things from him. That's how Beta became his family, she was there for him.

Axl's real mother got sick during this time and eventually died, I think that shook him up.

But basically it was Axl feeling like everyone turned on him at one time, and honestly being embarrassed about the details that came out of the trial. He doesn't take criticism well and the only way he could handle it was removing himself from a public life, which as we saw he did quite well.

everyone did turn on him, fans, media, and rock radio all did -- and it was largely because of his conduct on the UYI tour and his hostility to the rock press that caused people to turn

[maynard]

Spot on, jmapelian. Spot fucking on. The "junkie" was (and still is) a productive beast. Reharsals, world tours, tv shows, Slash is unstoppable and unconquerable.

Axl, the cleanest, most honest, with the most integrity musician on the band couldn't attend rehearsals on human time, couldn't write a damn line, was trying to make GNR sound more like NIN, or PJ so they could sound cool to the 90s kids and sell more records. While the rest of the band was trying to get GNR back on track.

Axl is the only reason GNR broke up and the only reason NuGNR was a big failure.

[jmapelian]

Better and exspecially Catcher aint the highlights for many fans, dont get it wrong.

if you want to call them highlights: IRS, Sorry, CD and Scraped are it for me.

[Liquor & Whores]

was it during this era that some producer passed cds for Axl to listen to but he ran them over by car ?

[Ant]

Wow thanks for posting that. Imagine after 10 years that producer coming in and saying you have 3 songs... 2 and a half.... after 8 years of work. And he was fucking right!

I still think he had major vocal issues in the 90's, especially after that Moby comment about defensiveness, and it fucked with his creativity and confidence.

And that Paul Huge guy... I guess Axl wanted someone he could be close with and unguarded around in the band to replace Izzy but that guy sounds like a butt.

"Slash came back for some writing down at the studio, totally negative and belligerent, quits the ****ing band ..." -Chris Pitman. Probably because you're ass was there with 50 pro tools machines chasing a new sound from inside Axl's ass.

... this fucking band....

Edited October 14, 2014 by Ant

[Amir]

"Slash came back for some writing down at the studio, totally negative and belligerent, quits the ****ing band ..." -Chris Pitman. Probably because you're ass was there with 50 pro tools machines chasing a new sound from inside Axl's ass.

That was Del James. I don't think Pitman and Slash have ever met.

[Ant]

Whoops my mistake

[Loseyourillusions98]

I mean axl regardless has turned gnr into the thing he hated the most, corporate rock. Besides the Vegas show this year, axl seems to be half assing everything and while most likely gain 30 more pounds eating that rabbit sausage he seems to love

[wasted]

I'd be as happy as a clam if CD2 was just the same as CD1.

From what Axl said it is similar. He's had enough to reneg what he said about it. But he reiterated second half of CD.

Hopefully this time off has given them some time to get a deal with the label to release or get money to do finishing touches. If they go back out on tour hopefully they play new stuff off CD II to get the labels attention,

[TOS--LOA]

Just read the whole Chinese Whispers site again. It really is a fascinating read. The whole thing reads like such a tragic story of wasted opportunities. As much as Axl loves to blame outside influences for his inability to get things done the common thread throughout the entire fourteen year saga seemed to be that Axl just never showed up. Whether it be literally showing up to the studio or figuratively not showing up by completing vocals and lyrics for the hours of music that was on tape. It also struck me that while reading through the story I started to really believe that Axl had really compiled dozens of amazing songs in the period between '95 and' 01. But then I remember the reality of the situation that when it came time to showcase the best of what he had in '01 we got Silkworms. A freaking C side level song that I would expect from a no talent goth kid noodling around in a dorm room somewhere. SMH

Also the only people who come across sounding like children without an ounce of credibility in all the hundreds of quotes are Del, Fernando and Beta. And I say this as objectively as possible as someone who just read through the quotes to see everyone's side of the story.

Edited October 15, 2014 by TOS--LOA

[Laparka]

Just read the whole Chinese Whispers site again. It really is a fascinating read. The whole thing reads like such a tragic story of wasted opportunities. As much as Axl loves to blame outside influences for his inability to get things done the common thread throughout the entire fourteen year saga seemed to be that Axl just never showed up. Whether it be literally showing up to the studio or figuratively not showing up by completing vocals and lyrics for the hours of music that was on tape. It also struck me that while reading through the story I started to really believe that Axl had really compiled dozens of amazing songs in the period between '95 and' 01. But then I remember the reality of the situation that when it came time to showcase the best of what he had in '01 we got Silkworms. A freaking C side level song that I would expect from a no talent goth kid noodling around in a dorm room somewhere. SMH

Also the only people who come across sounding like children without an ounce of credibility in all the hundreds of quotes are Del, Fernando and Beta. And I say this as objectively as possible as someone who just read through the quotes to see everyone's side of the story.

I had it printed on nice paper and made some kind of nice book to read in the train.

very interesting and fascinating... One of the best story/tragedy/clusterfuck of RnR history

[maynard]

Just read the whole Chinese Whispers site again. It really is a fascinating read. The whole thing reads like such a tragic story of wasted opportunities. As much as Axl loves to blame outside influences for his inability to get things done the common thread throughout the entire fourteen year saga seemed to be that Axl just never showed up. Whether it be literally showing up to the studio or figuratively not showing up by completing vocals and lyrics for the hours of music that was on tape. It also struck me that while reading through the story I started to really believe that Axl had really compiled dozens of amazing songs in the period between '95 and' 01. But then I remember the reality of the situation that when it came time to showcase the best of what he had in '01 we got Silkworms. A freaking C side level song that I would expect from a no talent goth kid noodling around in a dorm room somewhere. SMH

Also the only people who come across sounding like children without an ounce of credibility in all the hundreds of quotes are Del, Fernando and Beta. And I say this as objectively as possible as someone who just read through the quotes to see everyone's side of the story.

Great post.

[spliff]

haha poor moby

"'I found it difficult to chart a linear development of the songs that they were working on,' recalls Moby. 'They would work on something, it would be a sketch for a while, and then they'd put it aside and go back to it a year, six months later. He became a little bit defensive when I asked him about the vocals. He just said that he was going to get to them eventually,' Moby continues." (Rolling Stone, 05/11/00)

"Most of the stuff he had played me was just sketches, Mr. Sullivan recalled. I said, 'Look, Axl, this is some really great, promising stuff here. Why don't you consider just bearing down and completing some of these songs?' He goes, 'Hmm, bear down and complete some of these songs?' Next day I get a call from Eddie [Rosenblatt, the Geffen chairman], saying I was off the project

reminds me of when Sebastian Bach told him to just release cd in 06

[jmapelian]

So I was reading Chinese Whispers last night, but only made it up to 99. First off, whoever did that did a great job on compiling all the information that was assembled. Though it could be said the dude had WAYYYYY to much time on his hands. But it reminded me of that time period before the internet where people actually had to buy magazines to find out what was going on in the bands they wanted to know about. But also, after re-reading what i read, I still can't fopr the life of me see what Slash said that set Axl off to hate him as much as he does. Other than the fact that Slash quit and never came back on his hands and knees asking to return. Yes, Slash may have been too fucking stubborn with respects to the Snakepit stuff, but given the UYI tour, the constant delays, the cost overruns, the riots and all that other bullshit that went along with it, I can't really say I blame him. Seems like he got to a point where he just snapped and said fuck you, fuck you, do it my way or I'm done with you. But after re-reading all that again, SLASH, the heroin junkie alcoholic cokehead is the ONLY ONE who initially brought anything to the table with Gilby and Matt. Axl had jack and Duff had jack.

But the same can be said for Axl and his irrational insistence that paul fucking huge/mark fucking tobias be a member of the band. Unfortunately, the only contributing factor huge/tobias had was to drive the final wedge between Axl and Slash and Axl and Duff because both basically quit because of that tool. And to top it off, even the guys brought in to replace Slash and Duff could'nt stand the guy. So, yeah, Slash may have pissed off Axl by taking the Snakepit 4 songs he liked; well, Axl drove the stake in the heart of the band for his insistence on Huge/Tobias being in the band. Seriously they could have had Izzy as a co-writer and GIlby as a touring guitarist and called it a day. What a pity.

[D-GenerationX]

Better and exspecially Catcher aint the highlights for many fans, dont get it wrong.

if you want to call them highlights: IRS, Sorry, CD and Scraped are it for me.

Everyone's are going to be different. Mine would be 'There Was A Time', 'I.R.S',and 'Prostitute'.

But that's the thing. Everyone has a couple. That's all you need. How many albums are truly phenomenal top to bottom?

[Loseyourillusions98]

Better and exspecially Catcher aint the highlights for many fans, dont get it wrong.

if you want to call them highlights: IRS, Sorry, CD and Scraped are it for me.

Everyone's are going to be different. Mine would be 'There Was A Time', 'I.R.S',and 'Prostitute'.But that's the thing. Everyone has a couple. That's all you need. How many albums are truly phenomenal top to bottom?

Apetitie, acdc back in black, nevermind, etc... We're all great top to bottom Chinese has 2 to 3 good songs but the record in general sounds way to edited and over produced

[jmapelian]

Better and exspecially Catcher aint the highlights for many fans, dont get it wrong.

if you want to call them highlights: IRS, Sorry, CD and Scraped are it for me.

Everyone's are going to be different. Mine would be 'There Was A Time', 'I.R.S',and 'Prostitute'.But that's the thing. Everyone has a couple. That's all you need. How many albums are truly phenomenal top to bottom?

Apetitie, acdc back in black, nevermind, etc... We're all great top to bottom Chinese has 2 to 3 good songs but the record in general sounds way to edited and over produced

Blizzard was all killer and no filler

[darknightfan]

Axl was a person living during this time period.