Axl Rose 1995-2001 era

[tomfriend]

.....

Yes. Yes he was.

[DR DOOM]

We're all great top to bottom Chinese has 2 to 3 good songs but the record in general sounds way to edited and over producedBlizzard was all killer and no filler

*cough cough* No Bone Movies ( included so Lee Kerslake got a writing credit)

[Intercourse]

Axl was a person living during this time period.

and there was me thinking he'd built a time machine and moved to the 1800's.

[Tom2112]

Better and exspecially Catcher aint the highlights for many fans, dont get it wrong.

Better, TIL and street of dreams were the popular songs on that album. Twat is a fan favourite, CD (the song) was liked but most wished the intro talking part was track 1 and the song itself kicked in on track 2 (short attention spans).

I think most are looking forward to CD II,, don't expect your opinions on GnR to change too much though. I'm sure this album will be as confused as CD was... maybe more, now that he's had a further 6 years to tinker with it in his spare time, I think it will run the gamut again, huge ballads, 1-2 straight rockers, and then some experimental stuff, likely the "grinding metal" that sebastian talked about. I'm looking forward to it because I loved CD, but I don't expect it this year and I'm very skeptical of it appearing next year either...

[jmapelian]

We're all great top to bottom Chinese has 2 to 3 good songs but the record in general sounds way to edited and over producedBlizzard was all killer and no filler

*cough cough* No Bone Movies ( included so Lee Kerslake got a writing credit)

point taken - it goes with the flow of the album but stand alone, ^^

[Intercourse]

I still personally cannot get to the heart of what drove/drives Axl as an artist.

He has always been threatening to walk out, walk off, stop, delay etc when it came to GNRs moves forward, either with the old or new band. Either way the creative process always had an Axl-shaped gun to its head or brake on its wheels.

Some would argue that drove the creation of their unique sound and maybe so but somewhere along the way Axl squeezed the trigger..

Like others have said here, so called junkie Slash was at least working to move the band forward. If Axl was more of a collaborator and had real artistic drive, he could have taken Slash's material and layered it with crazy industrial shit to see how it would sound. It could have surprised both of them.

He could have even employed someone to do it for him if he was too busy mooning over Steph or plotting how to bring a court case to a victorious end for himself.

It was always the hardest, slowest, most mentally intensive way possible for Axl; and after 10 years I guess the others (who didn't have such entrapping OCD) couldn't force their brains to work like his and left.

Nothing I heard on CD was amazing enough or out-there enough that warranted the end of the old band to deliver. Most of CD is straightforward at best, just dripping in studio bling.

Axl held himself to ferocious standards for so long only to dissolve into a Vegas pud dialling in 25 year old tunes he wrote with people he hasn't spoken to in over a decade in some cases.

Back to my first point though and one that that Alan Niven said of Axl in his interviews last year "What do you stand for?"

Looking at his perplexing career, I'd say "Fucked if he even knows."

Edited October 17, 2014 by Intercourse

[maynard]

Great post, Intercourse.

[wasted]

I think Axl is just like any kid that dreams of being a rock star and how it might be the answer for him. He kind of says as much on Locomotive. The whole GNR dream turned out not to be real or a solution.

I think Axl has said CD was about healing and being spiritual without going religious.

I guess he didn't believe in the live fast die rock n roll myth or got sick of all the drugs etc.

I didn't really get Nivens question, what did Axl ever stand for? He seems emotional and looking for something or some way to live.

I would say he's honest and righteous and just a small town white boy just trying to make ends meet?

I think from the situation Axl came from to the streets it was about survival and a dream. On UYI he says on Locomotive he had dream and it was just an illusion?

I don't think everyone knows what they stand for "we're not bad kids just lucid ones just going through life not collecting anyone"

As we go through life we reassess and re-invent ourselves to continue to live. He said CD was about healing, spiritual without going religious, and it has this stance against dictators everywhere.

So Id say he stands for

Survival

Honesty

Righteousness

He is the rags to riches guy, but when he got to top he told us its an illusion, then he took a stand to make his righteous statement when he really could have been selling us more rock n roll cliches to make money.

[tomfriend]

I still personally cannot get to the heart of what drove/drives Axl as an artist.He has always been threatening to walk out, walk off, stop, delay etc when it came to GNRs moves forward, either with the old or new band. Either way the creative process always had an Axl-shaped gun to its head or brake on its wheels.Some would argue that drove the creation of their unique sound and maybe so but somewhere along the way Axl squeezed the trigger.. Like others have said here, so called junkie Slash was at least working to move the band forward. If Axl was more of a collaborator and had real artistic drive, he could have taken Slash's material and layered it with crazy industrial shit to see how it would sound. It could have surprised both of them.He could have even employed someone to do it for him if he was too busy mooning over Steph or plotting how to bring a court case to a victorious end for himself. It was always the hardest, slowest, most mentally intensive way possible for Axl; and after 10 years I guess the others (who didn't have such entrapping OCD) couldn't force their brains to work like his and left. Nothing I heard on CD was amazing enough or out-there enough that warranted the end of the old band to deliver. Most of CD is straightforward at best, just dripping in studio bling. Axl held himself to ferocious standards for so long only to dissolve into a Vegas pud dialling in 25 year old tunes he wrote with people he hasn't spoken to in over a decade in some cases. Back to my first point though and one that that Alan Niven said of Axl in his interviews last year "What do you stand for?"Looking at his perplexing career, I'd say "Fucked if he even knows."

Slash didn't want to bring the band forward. He wanted to take it back to 1987 and stay there playing cock rock for the rest of his life. Slash is the Mike Love 'Don't fuck with the formula' to Axl's Brian Wilson. Maybe someday we'll get Axl's Pet Sounds/Smile, but I also suspect in this analogy that Team Brazil is his Eugene Landy.

[recklessroad]

its pretty simple it took him 3 years to find new band members and then 2 years to make a record which all took a lot of time and hard work. He did go out all the time to dinner and other peoples shows but most of the time he was working on the new stuff. He may have been low key but that doesn't mean he didn't get out and around.

Edited October 18, 2014 by recklessroad

[Iron MikeyJ]

Finally finished Chinese Whispers, what an amazing collection btw. It really took me back to those times, and reminded me of the journey that I have been through with Axl/gnr. As Marc just said, it took Axl 3 years to replace the old band, so some of the "stories" concerning CD are a bit misleading. I remember reading 13 years in the making, which it was not, by this account it was more like 9. 9 years is too long yes, but doesn't sound as bad as 13. Without going into the whole "who broke up the old band" arguments, I would like to comment on some things I found VERY interesting.

First off, Axl had an album done in 1999. It had the line up of Finck, Tobias, Tommy, Dizzy, Pitman (maybe, don't remember for sure), and Josh Freese. By all acounts that album could have and should have been released in either 1999 or 2000. From what I read, Axl is not to blame for that album not happening. That was the record company secretly wanting Slash back in the band, so they denied that album by saying "make it better." But by these accounts (from Whispers), that album would of had Oh My God, Chinese Democracy, Street of Dreams/The Blues, Catcher in the rye, Riad, Silk Worms (perhaps), This I love (more than likely), and perhaps Ides of March/Soulmonster/Atlas Shrugged, and some other yet to be released songs. Yes it would have been more of an "industrial" type album, but I do think it would have worked out well enough in 1999/2000. Based upon these readings, I don't blame Axl for that album not happening. It was pretty much ready, the label rejected it....

Secondly, if that album had not been rejected, than the 2002 line up would have been working on the follow up album. When Axl brought Buckethead, Brain, and Fortus into the mix they brought out a new creative era for the band. So had that 1999 album happened, then I firlmy believe that some time from 2002 to 2004 we would have gotten another album. The songs created during that time included; Maddy, Shackler's, Better, Prostitute, Sorry, IRS, Scraped, If The World, plus unheard songs like Thyme, Seven, and The General. Most of the material that appaered on the actual album was written during this time. So again it begs the question about the material that was "rejected" back in 1999. A multitude of things went wrong that prevented that album from happening in a timly fashion; some highlights included Roy Thomas Baker basically wanting to rerecord everything that had been done, only to have the band not like his mixes, and ultimatly rerecord them again. Also it is VERY clear Buckethead and RTB did not get along, so had he NEVER of came into the mix, things may have worked out quite differently. When Axl said "round 1" at the 2002 VMA's, it was because he was expecting the album to be out that November. But again if RTB never entered the picture, that may have happened. Whol wanted RTB to produce the album? The Label did, so again how much blaim does Axl really deserve for both the 1999 and 2002 albums not happening? Not as much as he often gets IMO.

Finally, I do blame Axl for many if not most of the delay's that happened post 2004. But many of those delay's resulted from Buckethead quitting and Robin jumping back and fourth between gnr and nin. I don't blame either for doing what they did, but their incosistancies clearly delayed CD from 2004 to 2008. Had they both stayed in the fold, the album would have come a lot sooner. Axl wanted the album to be represented by the current members, hence the BBF and Ferrier additions, because they were now in the band. So I do understand that train of thought. Plus Buckethead probably would have stuck around a little longer had RTB never entered the fold. But ultimatly Axl does deserve the blame for most of the post 2004 delays. Which I'm not excusing his behavior, but I understand where he was coming from. After the album being rejected in 1999 and again in 2002, I would also have a "FUCK IT" type attitude, so i can relate to that. So I do understand him deciding to take his sweet ass time, and not wanting to hand the album over until he is ready. Should it of taken 4 more years? No, but replacing Bucket, Brain, and eventually Robin added to those delays. Plus the 2006 tour probably wasn't the best of ideas, but they probably needed the "fun" just going and playing provides.

After reading Chinese Whispers, the biggest thing that stands out to me is we really should be on album 3 of NUgnr at this point. Yes Axl deserves some of the blame, he is not innocent in this ordeal. But hearing an album was rejected in 1999 and again in 2002 pisses me off. It also adds some credibility to Axl's stance that everyone is "Out ta get me" because clearly his record company was not really playing ball. Plus the Label went through A TON of transitions during that time. Again I'm not excusing anything, but I do understand it.

Finally

Edited October 18, 2014 by Mike420

[wasted]

Finally finished Chinese Whispers, what an amazing collection btw. It really took me back to those times, and reminded me of the journey that I have been through with Axl/gnr. As Marc just said, it took Axl 3 years to replace the old band, so some of the "stories" concerning CD are a bit misleading. I remember reading 13 years in the making, which it was not, by this account it was more like 9. 9 years is too long yes, but doesn't sound as bad as 13. Without going into the whole "who broke up the old band" arguments, I would like to comment on some things I found VERY interesting.

First off, Axl had an album done in 1999. It had the line up of Finck, Tobias, Tommy, Dizzy, Pitman (maybe, don't remember for sure), and Josh Freese. By all acounts that album could have and should have been released in either 1999 or 2000. From what I read, Axl is not to blame for that album not happening. That was the record company secretly wanting Slash back in the band, so they denied that album by saying "make it better." But by these accounts (from Whispers), that album would of had Oh My God, Chinese Democracy, Street of Dreams/The Blues, Catcher in the rye, Riad, Silk Worms (perhaps), This I love (more than likely), and perhaps Ides of March/Soulmonster/Atlas Shrugged, and some other yet to be released songs. Yes it would have been more of an "industrial" type album, but I do think it would have worked out well enough in 1999/2000. Based upon these readings, I don't blame Axl for that album not happening. It was pretty much ready, the label rejected it....

Secondly, if that album had not been rejected, than the 2002 line up would have been working on the follow up album. When Axl brought Buckethead, Brain, and Fortus into the mix they brought out a new creative era for the band. So had that 1999 album happened, then I firlmy believe that some time from 2002 to 2004 we would have gotten another album. The songs created during that time included; Maddy, Shackler's, Better, Prostitute, Sorry, IRS, Scraped, If The World, plus unheard songs like Thyme, Seven, and The General. Most of the material that appaered on the actual album was written during this time. So again it begs the question about the material that was "rejected" back in 1999. A multitude of things went wrong that prevented that album from happening in a timly fashion; some highlights included Roy Thomas Baker basically wanting to rerecord everything that had been done, only to have the band not like his mixes, and ultimatly rerecord them again. Also it is VERY clear Buckethead and RTB did not get along, so had he NEVER of came into the mix, things may have worked out quite differently. When Axl said "round 1" at the 2002 VMA's, it was because he was expecting the album to be out that November. But again if RTB never entered the picture, that may have happened. Whol wanted RTB to produce the album? The Label did, so again how much blaim does Axl really deserve for both the 1999 and 2002 albums not happening? Not as much as he often gets IMO.

Finally, I do blame Axl for many if not most of the delay's that happened post 2004. But many of those delay's resulted from Buckethead quitting and Robin jumping back and fourth between gnr and nin. I don't blame either for doing what they did, but their incosistancies clearly delayed CD from 2004 to 2008. Had they both stayed in the fold, the album would have come a lot sooner. Axl wanted the album to be represented by the current members, hence the BBF and Ferrier additions, because they were now in the band. So I do understand that train of thought. Plus Buckethead probably would have stuck around a little longer had RTB never entered the fold. But ultimatly Axl does deserve the blame for most of the post 2004 delays. Which I'm not excusing his behavior, but I understand where he was coming from. After the album being rejected in 1999 and again in 2002, I would also have a "FUCK IT" type attitude, so i can relate to that. So I do understand him deciding to take his sweet ass time, and not wanting to hand the album over until he is ready. Should it of taken 4 more years? No, but replacing Bucket, Brain, and eventually Robin added to those delays. Plus the 2006 tour probably wasn't the best of ideas, but they probably needed the "fun" just going and playing provides.

After reading Chinese Whispers, the biggest thing that stands out to me is we really should be on album 3 of NUgnr at this point. Yes Axl deserves some of the blame, he is not innocent in this ordeal. But hearing an album was rejected in 1999 and again in 2002 pisses me off. It also adds some credibility to Axl's stance that everyone is "Out ta get me" because clearly his record company was not really playing ball. Plus the Label went through A TON of transitions during that time. Again I'm not excusing anything, but I do understand it.

Finally

Yes, exactly. The 1999 Beavan was rejected because it was probably too industrial, not GNR sounding enough. Zutaut said as much, good GNR album but no hit in most opinions. He went with Atlas as the first single calling it glam rock Nov Rain.

They brought in RTB to capitalise on the records strengths, Axls piano ballads. At this point Axl says its ready to mix, Ezrin says it isn't!!!

Basically each guy that comes in just wants a pay check. Of course it's not finished. Tommy thought the Beavan record was fine.

I can't see why in 2004 Axl didn't put it out. Other than his confidence was gone. The label said hand it over or GH. Bad move.

I think Caram/Ezrin oversaw/stimulated some sessions that led to Shacklers, Scraped, ITW, Sorry, maybe TIL was dusted off as well.

So maybe only by 2004 were some songs getting finished off.

To be the album shows the scope of the material for the trilogy.

There's a trilogy of singles at least

2000ish - Chi dem, SOD, Madagascar

2004 - Better, Catcher, TWAT

2008 - Shacklers, ITW, THis I Love

What they really should have done is put the Chi, Blues, Mad out as the Beavan record.

Then do the RTB record with Better, Catcher

Then do the Caram Shacklers and ITW record.

The only reason I can see is lack of label support. The Blues is great here have some money to make a video then well put out RTB stuff you're working on. Work with the artist. But it might only sell 4 mil and they want 20 mil so they think maybe wait for Slash.

I guess as time went by certain songs became redundant or left unfinished. But they got 30 songs by 2006 so that's basically enough for a trilogy, throw on Sailing, don't Let it Bring You Down, The Seeker.

So I think CD II is already done. Then there will be extra tracks to add to Djs material for another one.

GNR just doesn't chase trends and markets, it's like done in this timeless classic rock cloud. Axl is probably sitting on another big album like CD now if not more. They don't need to hit the studio or write they just need to get the material out and tour it.

Edited October 20, 2014 by wasted

[Intercourse]

Slash didn't want to bring the band forward. He wanted to take it back to 1987 and stay there playing cock rock for the rest of his life. Slash is the Mike Love 'Don't fuck with the formula' to Axl's Brian Wilson. Maybe someday we'll get Axl's Pet Sounds/Smile, but I also suspect in this analogy that Team Brazil is his Eugene Landy.

If you think AFD was "cock rock" then I'm not sure where to begin here.

Cock rock it was not.

I do agree though that Slash likes what he likes and loathes to come away from his formulae. My point was that Axl saw himself as the other end of the spectrum (i.e. wildly creative, vision driven and unafraid to mess with the GNR sound) so why not be really creative and take Slash's efforts and at least work on them to add the modern flavour he desired?

To this day I would still love to hear Slash meshed with some heavy industrial shit or anything that isn't fucking 12 bar blues and standard rock pieces. The guy plays incredible guitar and writes mean riffs, there's a whole lot of room there for the band to be completely different in sound and structure around him. The options are limitless.

Take Muse for example, some amazing rock guitar riffs are in there....just sitting inside a boat load of electronica.

The actual problem back at the end of GNR was that Slash knew exactly what he wanted (because he is a one trick pony) but it looks like nobody else in the band had a fucking clue what they really wanted to do musically with GNR or what that should sound like. There's lots of talk but really fuck all finished product from back in the day to show that others were working as hard as Slash.

There has never been a situation referenced where Duff & Axl took some Slash guitar track then built some sick industrial/modern rock backing tracks and vocals around it and presented it back to him to appraise.

I think it was a missed opportunity.

Even now, the glaring issue I and many others have with CD is that the guitar work is soulless. No decent riffs, tons of mindless noodle solos and sagging layers of guitars in verses and choruses.

Put a player with such a hugely distinctive sound and talent like Slash in with that stuff and it could have been very exciting.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Intercourse

[wasted]

According to Axl, Slash never let Axl near his Snakepit material. Axl wanted to work on it but Slash said no. Slash doesn't like pro tools much either. Much of electronica in rock relies on it. Slash was very anti those 90s bands as influences in GNR. Axl talking about PJ and NIN spooked him.

I think the problem was that although Slash knew what he wanted it wasn't good enough, the songs weren't there. There was no Izzy songs, Slash didn't seem to want in on Axl's songs. Maybe he knew the scope of what Axl wanted to do and just didn't want to be part of it?

Axl says Slash played him Fall to Pieces but then pulled it away when interest was shown.

Slash could have been involved in any project really and he hasn't shown much interest in anything other than hard rock. Crazy Dangerous and re-doing Paradise city wit Cypress Hill was kind of like his Walk This Way. Libetad was about as modern rock as it's got.

I could almost see Axl and Slash doing a White Zombie type song, with some more Cooper thrown in. But the band dynamic on CD shifter it seems with each song, sometimes Axl is working with Pitman or Finck or Bucket.

Slash just wanted Axl to sing on Snakepit as GNR. Might not have been that bad? It would have been interesting to see Slash working like Finck did in Axl's project. We might have got Fall to Pieces and Slither instead of Sorry and Better for example. Maybe with Slash playing on The Blues, This I Love, Catcher. What would a Slash solo sound like on If the World?

I just wonder if Slash could have been more open minded what could have been?

Edited October 20, 2014 by wasted

[Rovim]

Finally finished Chinese Whispers, what an amazing collection btw. It really took me back to those times, and reminded me of the journey that I have been through with Axl/gnr. As Marc just said, it took Axl 3 years to replace the old band, so some of the "stories" concerning CD are a bit misleading. I remember reading 13 years in the making, which it was not, by this account it was more like 9. 9 years is too long yes, but doesn't sound as bad as 13. Without going into the whole "who broke up the old band" arguments, I would like to comment on some things I found VERY interesting.

First off, Axl had an album done in 1999. It had the line up of Finck, Tobias, Tommy, Dizzy, Pitman (maybe, don't remember for sure), and Josh Freese. By all acounts that album could have and should have been released in either 1999 or 2000. From what I read, Axl is not to blame for that album not happening. That was the record company secretly wanting Slash back in the band, so they denied that album by saying "make it better." But by these accounts (from Whispers), that album would of had Oh My God, Chinese Democracy, Street of Dreams/The Blues, Catcher in the rye, Riad, Silk Worms (perhaps), This I love (more than likely), and perhaps Ides of March/Soulmonster/Atlas Shrugged, and some other yet to be released songs. Yes it would have been more of an "industrial" type album, but I do think it would have worked out well enough in 1999/2000. Based upon these readings, I don't blame Axl for that album not happening. It was pretty much ready, the label rejected it....

Secondly, if that album had not been rejected, than the 2002 line up would have been working on the follow up album. When Axl brought Buckethead, Brain, and Fortus into the mix they brought out a new creative era for the band. So had that 1999 album happened, then I firlmy believe that some time from 2002 to 2004 we would have gotten another album. The songs created during that time included; Maddy, Shackler's, Better, Prostitute, Sorry, IRS, Scraped, If The World, plus unheard songs like Thyme, Seven, and The General. Most of the material that appaered on the actual album was written during this time. So again it begs the question about the material that was "rejected" back in 1999. A multitude of things went wrong that prevented that album from happening in a timly fashion; some highlights included Roy Thomas Baker basically wanting to rerecord everything that had been done, only to have the band not like his mixes, and ultimatly rerecord them again. Also it is VERY clear Buckethead and RTB did not get along, so had he NEVER of came into the mix, things may have worked out quite differently. When Axl said "round 1" at the 2002 VMA's, it was because he was expecting the album to be out that November. But again if RTB never entered the picture, that may have happened. Whol wanted RTB to produce the album? The Label did, so again how much blaim does Axl really deserve for both the 1999 and 2002 albums not happening? Not as much as he often gets IMO.

Finally, I do blame Axl for many if not most of the delay's that happened post 2004. But many of those delay's resulted from Buckethead quitting and Robin jumping back and fourth between gnr and nin. I don't blame either for doing what they did, but their incosistancies clearly delayed CD from 2004 to 2008. Had they both stayed in the fold, the album would have come a lot sooner. Axl wanted the album to be represented by the current members, hence the BBF and Ferrier additions, because they were now in the band. So I do understand that train of thought. Plus Buckethead probably would have stuck around a little longer had RTB never entered the fold. But ultimatly Axl does deserve the blame for most of the post 2004 delays. Which I'm not excusing his behavior, but I understand where he was coming from. After the album being rejected in 1999 and again in 2002, I would also have a "FUCK IT" type attitude, so i can relate to that. So I do understand him deciding to take his sweet ass time, and not wanting to hand the album over until he is ready. Should it of taken 4 more years? No, but replacing Bucket, Brain, and eventually Robin added to those delays. Plus the 2006 tour probably wasn't the best of ideas, but they probably needed the "fun" just going and playing provides.

After reading Chinese Whispers, the biggest thing that stands out to me is we really should be on album 3 of NUgnr at this point. Yes Axl deserves some of the blame, he is not innocent in this ordeal. But hearing an album was rejected in 1999 and again in 2002 pisses me off. It also adds some credibility to Axl's stance that everyone is "Out ta get me" because clearly his record company was not really playing ball. Plus the Label went through A TON of transitions during that time. Again I'm not excusing anything, but I do understand it.

Finally

Yes, exactly. The 1999 Beavan was rejected because it was probably too industrial, not GNR sounding enough. Zutaut said as much, good GNR album but no hit in most opinions. He went with Atlas as the first single calling it glam rock Nov Rain.

They brought in RTB to capitalise on the records strengths, Axls piano ballads. At this point Axl says its ready to mix, Ezrin says it isn't!!!

Basically each guy that comes in just wants a pay check. Of course it's not finished. Tommy thought the Beavan record was fine.

I can't see why in 2004 Axl didn't put it out. Other than his confidence was gone. The label said hand it over or GH. Bad move.

I think Caram/Ezrin oversaw/stimulated some sessions that led to Shacklers, Scraped, ITW, Sorry, maybe TIL was dusted off as well.

So maybe only by 2004 were some songs getting finished off.

To be the album shows the scope of the material for the trilogy.

There's a trilogy of singles at least

2000ish - Chi dem, SOD, Madagascar

2004 - Better, Catcher, TWAT

2008 - Shacklers, ITW, THis I Love

What they really should have done is put the Chi, Blues, Mad out as the Beavan record.

Then do the RTB record with Better, Catcher

Then do the Caram Shacklers and ITW record.

The only reason I can see is lack of label support. The Blues is great here have some money to make a video then well put out RTB stuff you're working on. Work with the artist. But it might only sell 4 mil and they want 20 mil so they think maybe wait for Slash.

I guess as time went by certain songs became redundant or left unfinished. But they got 30 songs by 2006 so that's basically enough for a trilogy, throw on Sailing, don't Let it Bring You Down, The Seeker.

So I think CD II is already done. Then there will be extra tracks to add to Djs material for another one.

GNR just doesn't chase trends and markets, it's like done in this timeless classic rock cloud. Axl is probably sitting on another big album like CD now if not more. They don't need to hit the studio or write they just need to get the material out and tour it.

And they will. It's weird how boring it is to wait for something that you just know is going to be very exciting. Bucket/Robin/Paul strong guitar writing team, then you have Axl and DJ, Axl and Pitman, Axl and Dizzy, strong piano n' emo group and Brain wrote The General? Tommy is The General.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Rovim

[wasted]

The General is the sequel to Estranged? Axl uses high screaming vocals on the chorus?

I hope they use the Exorcist intro for the album.

Axl said they worked some more on the CD era stuff and done some new stuff. I think Ron is just pissed he not the chosen one. Fortus seems to have been finishing off the record. Will that Dj n Axl song make it? Or is it better to keep Dj chained up until the next record?

If CD II is already done then I think 2015 will be the year.

[Intercourse]

According to Axl, Slash never let Axl near his Snakepit material. Axl wanted to work on it but Slash said no. Slash doesn't like pro tools much either. Much of electronica in rock relies on it. Slash was very anti those 90s bands as influences in GNR. Axl talking about PJ and NIN spooked him.

I think the problem was that although Slash knew what he wanted it wasn't good enough, the songs weren't there. There was no Izzy songs, Slash didn't seem to want in on Axl's songs. Maybe he knew the scope of what Axl wanted to do and just didn't want to be part of it?

Axl says Slash played him Fall to Pieces but then pulled it away when interest was shown.

Slash could have been involved in any project really and he hasn't shown much interest in anything other than hard rock. Crazy Dangerous and re-doing Paradise city wit Cypress Hill was kind of like his Walk This Way. Libetad was about as modern rock as it's got.

I could almost see Axl and Slash doing a White Zombie type song, with some more Cooper thrown in. But the band dynamic on CD shifter it seems with each song, sometimes Axl is working with Pitman or Finck or Bucket.

Slash just wanted Axl to sing on Snakepit as GNR. Might not have been that bad? It would have been interesting to see Slash working like Finck did in Axl's project. We might have got Fall to Pieces and Slither instead of Sorry and Better for example. Maybe with Slash playing on The Blues, This I Love, Catcher. What would a Slash solo sound like on If the World?

I just wonder if Slash could have been more open minded what could have been?

I wonder is that the truth though?...Axl said in an interview with Kurt Loader at the time that he wanted to do and AFD style album but couldn't because of Slash. We all know that's not true at all.

Slash may have been hard balling because of the interminable amount of time Axl was taking with everything and was hoping to get some tunes in the bag.

However, if he told the greatest front man on earth at the time that he couldn't work on his tunes then he was fucking stupid.

I think Slash had had enough procrastination, mooning over Steph, legal hassle, grand piano ballads etc and snapped.

Where was management at this time? Duff said he was exhausted mediating between them.

Slash hates Doug Goldstein to this day and I think its because he didn't get in there at this time and try to move things along, instead he stuck to Axl like shit to a blanket and affirmed his notions that this was actually a one man show.

I don't imagine Slash being over joyed with the electronic direction but if he was still allowed to be Slash and the band still sounded like GNR just with some modern sonic flourishes and structures inside songs, I think he would have stayed.

[wasted]

According to Axl, Slash never let Axl near his Snakepit material. Axl wanted to work on it but Slash said no. Slash doesn't like pro tools much either. Much of electronica in rock relies on it. Slash was very anti those 90s bands as influences in GNR. Axl talking about PJ and NIN spooked him.

I think the problem was that although Slash knew what he wanted it wasn't good enough, the songs weren't there. There was no Izzy songs, Slash didn't seem to want in on Axl's songs. Maybe he knew the scope of what Axl wanted to do and just didn't want to be part of it?

Axl says Slash played him Fall to Pieces but then pulled it away when interest was shown.

Slash could have been involved in any project really and he hasn't shown much interest in anything other than hard rock. Crazy Dangerous and re-doing Paradise city wit Cypress Hill was kind of like his Walk This Way. Libetad was about as modern rock as it's got.

I could almost see Axl and Slash doing a White Zombie type song, with some more Cooper thrown in. But the band dynamic on CD shifter it seems with each song, sometimes Axl is working with Pitman or Finck or Bucket.

Slash just wanted Axl to sing on Snakepit as GNR. Might not have been that bad? It would have been interesting to see Slash working like Finck did in Axl's project. We might have got Fall to Pieces and Slither instead of Sorry and Better for example. Maybe with Slash playing on The Blues, This I Love, Catcher. What would a Slash solo sound like on If the World?

I just wonder if Slash could have been more open minded what could have been?

I wonder is that the truth though?...Axl said in an interview with Kurt Loader at the time that he wanted to do and AFD style album but couldn't because of Slash. We all know that's not true at all.

Slash may have been hard balling because of the interminable amount of time Axl was taking with everything and was hoping to get some tunes in the bag.

However, if he told the greatest front man on earth at the time that he couldn't work on his tunes then he was fucking stupid.

I think Slash had had enough procrastination, mooning over Steph, legal hassle, grand piano ballads etc and snapped.

Where was management at this time? Duff said he was exhausted mediating between them.

Slash hates Doug Goldstein to this day and I think its because he didn't get in there at this time and try to move things along, instead he stuck to Axl like shit to a blanket and affirmed his notions that this was actually a one man show.

I don't imagine Slash being over joyed with the electronic direction but if he was still allowed to be Slash and the band still sounded like GNR just with some modern sonic flourishes and structures inside songs, I think he would have stayed.

Its hard to really know exactly. I just think Slash just wanted to do Snakepit as it was, he didn't want to work on it with Axl. Slash wouldn't do Axls songs either. They were nowhere near doing an electronica album. There was no new direction, just unworked on blues rock.

The more I think about it seems like Slashs response to Axl having the name was just to stonewall him on anything but Snakepit. Axl was saying he was open to do something like Snakepit or back to basics because he was getting sued etc. What stopped him? Slash. After Slash was gone then he could get into this supposed industrial techno direction or bring in some ideas he was working on but it wasn't on the table when Slash was there. There was nobody to do that.

Dougie/Tobias was part of the situation that Slash was rebelling against. I guess Duff was trying to keep it going. Slash seems like he'd had enough. If Axl had the name and thought they were going to do a bunch of gay ballads then Slash wasn't having it. Axl had no way to do them without Slash. Maybe why he brought Tobias in?

Slash has rights to feel pissed about the name but not being willing to work on his material isn't how GNR did it before. Axl n Duff wanted to work on it. I don't think Axl thought Slash would haul off and take this material on tour.

In someways Slash is right, in someways Axl is right.

The best would be the full collaboration with Slashs hard rock prominent. To me that's what Axl wanted. A real GNR album and take advantage of their situation.

Edited October 21, 2014 by wasted

[wkuk04]

Releasing an original material GNR album in the mid 90's in the middle of grunge era & alternative music, with Slash's 9 year solos would have proved disastrous.

[niceguy]

But in Axl's mind, Tobias > Salsh

[jmapelian]

Releasing an original material GNR album in the mid 90's in the middle of grunge era & alternative music, with Slash's 9 year solos would have proved disastrous.

How do you figure? Snakepit sold over a million copies with minimal record company support. Stop with the revionist history.

[maynard]

Releasing an original material GNR album in the mid 90's in the middle of grunge era & alternative music, with Slash's 9 year solos would have proved disastrous.

How do you figure? Snakepit sold over a million copies with minimal record company support. Stop with the revionist history.

Slash toured the world with Snakepit and sold over a mllion of records playing blues rock and with little support from the label. Some people like to ignore that or rewrite history for weird reasons like loyalty to Axl, but you're totally right.

[wasted]

1 million is sucky. It would have been their Draw the Line. With Axl singing and the GNR name maybe it would have sold a bit more. I felt like it might fit the grunge era in a way. Drop all the production.

Only song I remember are Neither can I and Hate everybody but you. I think if This I Love came attached it could have been a way to keep the band alive. Axl could have had an easier life letting Slash take control maybe letting him do a epic ballad per album.

They were polar opposites. Slash uses Jack Douglas, Axl gets RTB. How do you keep them both happy?

My real query is where's the next Jungle? On UYI Live n let Die was that. But since then Slash hasn't done a big rocker that really could have been GNR. Slither I guess but that came out in 2004? Hate Everybody could have been like another YCBM if they worked on it as a band...

Edited October 22, 2014 by wasted

[jmapelian]

1 million is sucky. It would have been their Draw the Line. With Axl singing and the GNR name maybe it would have sold a bit more. I felt like it might fit the grunge era in a way. Drop all the production.

Only song I remember are Neither can I and Hate everybody but you. I think if This I Love came attached it could have been a way to keep the band alive. Axl could have had an easier life letting Slash take control maybe letting him do a epic ballad per album.

They were polar opposites. Slash uses Jack Douglas, Axl gets RTB. How do you keep them both happy?

My real query is where's the next Jungle? On UYI Live n let Die was that. But since then Slash hasn't done a big rocker that really could have been GNR. Slither I guess but that came out in 2004? Hate Everybody could have been like another YCBM if they worked on it as a band...

Sucky for a side project with a thrown together band and an album recorded in less than 2 weeks with minimal production costs? You must be high, or, an Axl worshipper

[ericy210]

I could almost see Axl and Slash doing a White Zombie type song, with some more Cooper thrown in. But the band dynamic on CD shifter it seems with each song, sometimes Axl is working with Pitman or Finck or Bucket.

- that's a cool thought. I 100% agree that would be bad ass. A blues based hard rock meets Zombie with Axl at the helm.