2001-2002 band was best musicallly live

[wasted]

I see them as different line ups and don't expect 2002 line up to play old stuff as well. Sometimes on an Axl song or a certain version worked. They put they're own twist on things, for the most part that means not as good. Current guys are solid and consistent. Djs Patience is great. Fortus Heavens door is nice. Ron handles Bucket and Slash stuff pretty well. I get its not the og band. I still enjoy a great deal of it. Blu ray was great show. Fucking flying pianos! They did it!

[Intercourse]

because the whole 12 years old "cover-band" point is getting pretty over-used. You can't use this point every time NuGnR is brought up.

That's Axl's fault not ours.

[Rovim]

2002 line up was the super fantastic adventure octofuturistic alternate dimension Guns. Axl's alice in wonderland version of what Guns can be if you're on lsd. it was great.

But it wasn't the real deal. Of course it wasn't, and it doesn't have the true source of the classic Guns sound which is the people that were responsible for the music and wild live shows when the band was in it's prime. Slash, Izzy, and Duff.

But I like that it happened. That the 2002 line up was even possible for a short time cause it was cray. And Chinese showed what those musicians can do together with Axl's weird attempt to chase after the vision he sees in his head, but still make it Guns. Can't let go, so needy.

Somehow, I don't think we'll only have these 2 incarnations represented with original music. If the Ashba/Bumble/Fortus incarnation ever gets the chance to release an album of fresh material (lol) we'll have kind of a trilogy of Guns line ups which potentially could be great. But Axl is almost 60. Tick tock. I must... run along now.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Rovim

[bumblerose]

I preferred finks playing in 2001-2002 over his sloppy 2006 - 2007 period. For example his solo at the end of paradise city at rock am ring was dreadful but he had his real good moments too. Just wish I could see him solo this I love instead a$$ba

[tomfriend]

2002 was a band with intent and balls. Some of that was still there in 06, though a lot of it disappeared with Bucket. 2010 was Axl's last gasp, and it's just been floundering since.

[Russel Nash]

The Axl letter blaming Bucket in 2004 was a big mistake, sounded butt hurt in every possible way. At least we know that it was bullshit.

[Flayer]

If you listenened to a purely audio recording of the 2001/2 lineup playing the songs (I'm talking purely instrumental here, Axl's voice not included) I do think it actually 'sounds' better a lot of the time.

But in terms of live stage presence and chemistry, wildness and unpredictability, and spontaneity, cutting loose, just rocking: no contest. Nobody rocks as a band like the classic lineup. Buckethead's playing is stellar, he has his own strange brand of charisma, goes great with Brain, and I guess Axl can play off him but...say, what is there between him and Tommy? Or him and Paul Huge? Do they play off of each other on stage as well?

Would these guys in any of the new lineups be bashing each other over the head with bottles fighting over some chick? Would Brain or Frank Ferrer throw their cymbals at you for making fun of DJ because he's 'family' to them? If Axl didn't show up, could these guys all just jam on stage for an hour and actually keep the crowd going? Some could. Ron Thal would try his damn hardest. He could jam something with Fortus and Tommy and Frank. Bucket and Brain could put on a show between the two of them. Not that a GNR crowd would sit through an hour of it without being pissed off, but they could at least play something together.

Would Bucket and Dizzy Reed jam together? Robin and Paul Huge? DJ and Tommy? I don't think so. Bringing together people with wildly different styles can make for great albums, but live it all depends on Axl. Axl to move around the stage and interact with all them. Axl the MC to announce each of their solo spots, the crowd by and large accepting the solos out of respect to Axl, not out of a real desire to see that guy solo. At an old GNR show of 10,000 people you could expect at least a couple thousand to actually get excited when Axl calls "On the guitar, ladies and gentleman, Mr. Motherfucking Slash!" Bucket and Bumble have immense talents and their own niche fans looking forward to seeing them play, and might win some people over while they're actually playing, but they're not going to trigger that same excitement. And DJ, Fortus, Robin? Even less so.

The new lineups are professionals. That has its benefits and its downsides. The playings often more consistent and even technically more proficient (with exceptions, like you, yeah you in the swag) cause they don't show up high or drunk off their asses; the sound is fuller and often closer to the album with seven instrumentalists instead of four, etc.

Drawbacks? They're middle aged guys with wives and lawyers. They're not the most dangerous band in the world. They're not even a dangerous band. They're not wild and unpredictable. DJ is not gonna grab a mic midshow cause he's drunk and sound off about whatever's going through his head. He's not gonna stop and fill his hat with Jaeger and try to get Axl or Frank to chug it. Tommy's not gonna walk into the crowd himself and pick the hottest chick he can see to come on stage. Fortus ain't gonna try to crowd surf. Bumblefoot's goofing off with a stormtrooper helmet was one of the only moments I can recall a New Guns member doing this kind of stuff, that's why I was glad it happened even if it fucked up his solo, even if in retrospect it was just stupid.

A lot of the appeal in rock n' roll IS stupid goofy shit. No point trying to hide, argue, or deny it. You need to have the right amount of dumb shit going on for it to truly be rock n' roll. A great rock n' roll band had better make us laugh once in a while. Great rock n' roll needs some stupidity right along with some genius; some top-caliber talent alongside some stuff any fourteen year old could do in his garage. Some ugliness and vulgarity alongside some moments of true beauty and art. Bitterness, sweetness, tastelessness. There are only so many truly great rock and roll bands because it's fucking hard to find five or six guys who can manage all that and actually stick together as a group.

Benefits and drawbacks. The new lineups can deliver a very respectable show, a very good show, once in a while a truly great show. There's a line though between very good and great and between great and legendary. Classic GNR in the glory years routinely gave great shows, and some of tbhem were legendary. The downside of lacking professionalism was that once in a while they'd put on a total shitshow. I'm not talking about something like the bowling alley or the Bridge School show where they (mostly) just sounded really bad. They still got through the whole concert, the audience enjoyed it enough not to want to burn the fucking place down by the end of the night.

When Classic GNR put on a shitshow, it was a fiasco, where they'd cause a riot or cancel at the last minute or keep a crowd waiting six hours. This kind of shitfest is why so many people just fucking hate Axl to this day, because he got most of the blame for that (and most of the time, deservingly). There's been few times New GNR ever put on a shitshow like that, and their worst were never as horrendous as the worst of Old GNR, and when they have happened it's pretty much always been Axl because he's the only one among the new lineup who once in a while just says, "Fuck professionalism. I do things my way." But on the other hand, New GNR has never put on a truly legendary show.

See what I'm getting at by all this? New GNR can be a very good lineup, it's had a couple of insanely talented star players and most of its rest have been very good as well. The music in purely instrumental terms often will sound better on any given night than the old lineup's performance (give or take the solos where there's a lot of subjective taste as well as some true fuckery on the part of Ashba).

But the moment you make it more than just the audio? When you bring stage presence, charisma, danger into the equation? When you asks "who rocks harder" instead of "who plays better" or "who sounds better", the answer is, no contest, the classic lineup. On those terms, no new lineup has ever or probably could ever have competed on the same level.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Flayer

[Rovim]

^^^

At the end of day they're just people man. If they like each other and the way the other one is playing, they can groove on something cool. It's like Ron said, it's like talking.

Problem is, with Axl's new line ups is he hand picked the best musicians in his opinion to form a supergroup and the problem of supergroups usually is a lack of chemistry. If you've lived with someone, and you're creating together as a living, breathing unit, it's just not the same thing. Sparks flying everywhere.

Not saying it can't be done in a different way, but that is the ideal way imo, and Axl's way of doing things has dictated even the very foundation of the band. But they're pros and they know how to play together. (not talking about DJ)

Edited October 24, 2014 by Rovim