How do you think Axl will sound on the 2015 tour?

[Laparka]

How many times does it need to be said? Dealing with Axl isn't like dealing with Ratt or Bieber, or whoever else. You're talking about the guy that milked 13+ million dollars from them, supposedly didn't even promote his own album and you think they're wanting to go that route over a declining act with mythical "A-list material" that was recorded around the time of the not-so-well received and mythical Chinese Democracy?

What's the selling point? "Do the work and hope for the best?"

Nah.

The DVD milks the old material. It's the same type of choice the label made with greatest hits.

The selling point? they've made a profit with Chinese. Even if the process was shitty. Still found a way with the Best Buy deal. Now that kind of deal will probably won't happen, but Axl have always made money as a recording artist. Some money is better then no money at all. They'll lose what was invested by them to record CD ll if they won't release it.

The label can drop Axl if they want to no? why didn't they if Axl is such a losing horse for them? it doesn't quite add up.

whenh you spend 13+ million on an album and you get a deal for 14 million with Best Buy, where's that profit you speak of?

Who said they should drop Axl? If anything, they'd hold out for a reunion and wait for the profit from that. They wouldn't sit by and watch their only leverage dry up by releasing mediocre records that net tiny profit.

No one is anticipating CD II as much as people were with CD. That's not a guess.

A reunion will never happen. The label knows that better than us I guess.

[Rustycage]

A reunion will never happen. The label knows that better than us I guess.

The Eagles will reunite when hell freezes over.

Speaking in absolutes is fun yet worthless. Only time can tell.

The label knows nugnr with Axl is nothing like Metallica or Van Halen and the amount of people interested in the project is declining. No one is clawing at Axl's door for more dr suess ballads except for hardcore Axl fans.

[Apollo]

Im not sure why the artwork thing wasnt caught, should have been easy to id expect. I was more having a laugh at the clip that surfaced of Axl talking at some party saying he didnt promote the album cuz they fucked up the artwork. Pretty ridiculous on his part, but its Axl.

And i agree with u on the reunion front. Hell, all of us would prefer it to be the original band. But the label has to know at the same time its not really realistic at this point.

But in the end, didn't he just hurt himself and his band's future earnings?

And dang. The label's "deadline" wasn't something that was just sprung on Axl out of nowhere. It's not like they called him up and said "Dude, you've got 45 minutes to submit artwork for the album."

This is an album that was 14 years in the making. How hard or how much time would he have needed to submit the artwork that he wanted? They had to know when all the material needed to be presented by - artwork, songs, whatever else goes into releasing an album.

[Apollo]

How many times does it need to be said? Dealing with Axl isn't like dealing with Ratt or Bieber, or whoever else. You're talking about the guy that milked 13+ million dollars from them, supposedly didn't even promote his own album and you think they're wanting to go that route over a declining act with mythical "A-list material" that was recorded around the time of the not-so-well received and mythical Chinese Democracy?

What's the selling point? "Do the work and hope for the best?"

Nah.

The DVD milks the old material. It's the same type of choice the label made with greatest hits.

The selling point? they've made a profit with Chinese. Even if the process was shitty. Still found a way with the Best Buy deal. Now that kind of deal will probably won't happen, but Axl have always made money as a recording artist. Some money is better then no money at all. They'll lose what was invested by them to record CD ll if they won't release it.

The label can drop Axl if they want to no? why didn't they if Axl is such a losing horse for them? it doesn't quite add up.

whenh you spend 13+ million on an album and you get a deal for 14 million with Best Buy, where's that profit you speak of?

Who said they should drop Axl? If anything, they'd hold out for a reunion and wait for the profit from that. They wouldn't sit by and watch their only leverage dry up by releasing mediocre records that net tiny profit.

No one is anticipating CD II as much as people were with CD. That's not a guess.

Interesting question and maybe the comparison isn't valid. Please feel free to answer, but this is also a question directed at everybody or especially at people with knowledge of how the "business" works.

People say that Slash/Duff could sue Axl because of "duress" if he refused to play with the band anymore unless they signed the legal rights of the name of the band to him.

If that is actually the case, couldn't Axl sue the record company? If the label owns the next two GnR records, can they legally say that they aren't going to release ANY music from Axl until he fires his current bands and hires a completely new band. Talk about blackmailing somebody under duress. Surely that would be a illegal? Can a label RESTRICT a singer from making a living by refusing to allow him to live up to the contract they BOTH agreed on? Unless the contract specifically stated that the label has a "say" in who is in the band, then how can they prevent Axl from living up to his end of the contract?

Also, seriously, this is Axl Rose we are talking about.

If the label seriously told him they weren't releasing any album unless Slash/Duff/Izzy are on it..............why wouldn't A. Axl sue them. B. Axl ever mention that? The couple of quotes we've seen from Axl say that they are working on the album, figuring out what songs go with what songs, etc.

I find it hard to believe that the label would be blackmailing Axl and he (and Beta) would just sit back and do nothing about it. Wouldn't they sue or at least talk about it publically?

[Amir]

You never know how Axl will sound on a given tour. I thought his voice was shot in 91, but then 92 and 93 happened. Then I thought he was done in 2002. Nope. 2006 and 2010 said otherwise. 2011-2014 has been fucking horrendous, though. There are maybe one or two shows in that whole stretch that could be called good. Other than that, the best you get is a show where 3-4 songs sound good, a few others are OK, and the rest are pretty fucking embarrassing. That leads me to think he's really done this time. He's getting too old to be such a lazy fuck about training and taking care of his voice. Still, I've been wrong before so I'll stay pathetic and stick around to see.

Goddammit you read my mind

[Rustycage]

How many times does it need to be said? Dealing with Axl isn't like dealing with Ratt or Bieber, or whoever else. You're talking about the guy that milked 13+ million dollars from them, supposedly didn't even promote his own album and you think they're wanting to go that route over a declining act with mythical "A-list material" that was recorded around the time of the not-so-well received and mythical Chinese Democracy?

What's the selling point? "Do the work and hope for the best?"

Nah.

The DVD milks the old material. It's the same type of choice the label made with greatest hits.

The selling point? they've made a profit with Chinese. Even if the process was shitty. Still found a way with the Best Buy deal. Now that kind of deal will probably won't happen, but Axl have always made money as a recording artist. Some money is better then no money at all. They'll lose what was invested by them to record CD ll if they won't release it.

The label can drop Axl if they want to no? why didn't they if Axl is such a losing horse for them? it doesn't quite add up.

whenh you spend 13+ million on an album and you get a deal for 14 million with Best Buy, where's that profit you speak of?

Who said they should drop Axl? If anything, they'd hold out for a reunion and wait for the profit from that. They wouldn't sit by and watch their only leverage dry up by releasing mediocre records that net tiny profit.

No one is anticipating CD II as much as people were with CD. That's not a guess.

Interesting question and maybe the comparison isn't valid. Please feel free to answer, but this is also a question directed at everybody or especially at people with knowledge of how the "business" works.

People say that Slash/Duff could sue Axl because of "duress" if he refused to play with the band anymore unless they signed the legal rights of the name of the band to him.

If that is actually the case, couldn't Axl sue the record company? If the label owns the next two GnR records, can they legally say that they aren't going to release ANY music from Axl until he fires his current bands and hires a completely new band. Talk about blackmailing somebody under duress. Surely that would be a illegal? Can a label RESTRICT a singer from making a living by refusing to allow him to live up to the contract they BOTH agreed on? Unless the contract specifically stated that the label has a "say" in who is in the band, then how can they prevent Axl from living up to his end of the contract?

Also, seriously, this is Axl Rose we are talking about.

If the label seriously told him they weren't releasing any album unless Slash/Duff/Izzy are on it..............why wouldn't A. Axl sue them. B. Axl ever mention that? The couple of quotes we've seen from Axl say that they are working on the album, figuring out what songs go with what songs, etc.

I find it hard to believe that the label would be blackmailing Axl and he (and Beta) would just sit back and do nothing about it. Wouldn't they sue or at least talk about it publically?

I wouldn't expect them to be so direct and the response would be along the lines that it's not ready or not good enough.

[Apollo]

Rusty -

So all the people on the forum that say "the label is holding out for a reunion album, that's why they won't release an album by the current band".........that is all speculation then by people who really have no idea then. Just fans making a guess? So they could be 100% wrong as well.

I just think if Axl had any proof at all that the label was preventing Axl from fulfilling his end of the contract and preventing Axl from making a living (he can't go to another label), then him and Beta would be ALL over them with a huge lawsuit.

[Rustycage]

There are posters with supposed sources in the biz that claim they've all washed their hands of Axl. It's the grapevine but the thinking isn't completely baseless. I'd rather let those people catch the discussion and go with that part. Also, it's not like they don't have a good reason to not want the headache from Axl over a mediocre album in an age where downloading is king. Also, label's aren't obligated to release material they think is subpar.

From a business standpoint, this isn't the great GNR of old or the great Axl Rose and his myhtical masterpiece. It's the second offering from his Trent Reznor phase after the first wasn't received well enough to justify the means it took to create it.

I think they(GNR and TB) want to release something. They've made vague statements that they're trying. I think all of those leaks came from close sources that were "feeling out" the fanbase's reaction to the potential material. I wouldn't be shocked if all of them come from that source. And what we've heard since CD came out doesn't sound very promising. To suggest that Axl sat on his A-list material and only released what was on CD because of the leaks is too far out there.

Why would DJ come out and say his stuff is like classic guns? Do they all know the experiment failed and are trying to excite the base again for new material?

Is all of the touring in effort to prove to the label that there is some sort of a demand but the dwindling fanbase didn't help their cause?

We're also talking about incompetent management. They are probably laughed out of the building every time Beta calls or shows up.

I think we(and the label) heard the best he had to offer and the label is not interested in what they're offering or have now. The cash cow is the reunion(as hopeless as it may be) and they aren't jumping to Axl's demands anymore. Labels can be shitheads and try to hold you hostage. Just look at what happened with Tom Petty. They're bloodsuckers for the most part and control their artists in any way they can. Hell, they had to basically force CD out of Axl's hands.

There has to be a reason that Axl has come out lately looking so defeated and mailing in performances. We all know that proving the old guys wrong in his delusional war is top priority. If those A-list songs are done, and he apparently spent SO much time on them, what logical reason is there for him to just sit back and do jack shit?

Things aren't exactly in Axl's favor, ya know? They can't just walk in and say, "Groghan wants a record."

But hey, all of this speculation could be cleared up really easy if these people knew how to communicate with the very people offering them money. But that's nugnr. The band that apparently want to screw the fans out of money for a stupid nightrain membership that offers nothing you couldn't find out from other sources or material that couldn't be bought without the membership fee.

When someone shows you they're a whore for money, how can you logically defend the notion that they're holding back on supposed millions for no reason?

[ChineseIRS]

Im not sure why the artwork thing wasnt caught, should have been easy to id expect. I was more having a laugh at the clip that surfaced of Axl talking at some party saying he didnt promote the album cuz they fucked up the artwork. Pretty ridiculous on his part, but its Axl.

And i agree with u on the reunion front. Hell, all of us would prefer it to be the original band. But the label has to know at the same time its not really realistic at this point.

But in the end, didn't he just hurt himself and his band's future earnings?

And dang. The label's "deadline" wasn't something that was just sprung on Axl out of nowhere. It's not like they called him up and said "Dude, you've got 45 minutes to submit artwork for the album."

This is an album that was 14 years in the making. How hard or how much time would he have needed to submit the artwork that he wanted? They had to know when all the material needed to be presented by - artwork, songs, whatever else goes into releasing an album.

Well yeah, thats what i was saying without going into it. Its ridiculous, like shooting himself in the foot. You spend 14 years of your life on a record and dont promote it cuz of something that should have been caught easily. He thought he was spiting the record company, but he only hindered sales by disappearing after its release in my opinion.

[Apollo]

Im not sure why the artwork thing wasnt caught, should have been easy to id expect. I was more having a laugh at the clip that surfaced of Axl talking at some party saying he didnt promote the album cuz they fucked up the artwork. Pretty ridiculous on his part, but its Axl.

And i agree with u on the reunion front. Hell, all of us would prefer it to be the original band. But the label has to know at the same time its not really realistic at this point.

But in the end, didn't he just hurt himself and his band's future earnings?

And dang. The label's "deadline" wasn't something that was just sprung on Axl out of nowhere. It's not like they called him up and said "Dude, you've got 45 minutes to submit artwork for the album."

This is an album that was 14 years in the making. How hard or how much time would he have needed to submit the artwork that he wanted? They had to know when all the material needed to be presented by - artwork, songs, whatever else goes into releasing an album.

Well yeah, thats what i was saying without going into it. Its ridiculous, like shooting himself in the foot. You spend 14 years of your life on a record and dont promote it cuz of something that should have been caught easily. He thought he was spiting the record company, but he only hindered sales by disappearing after its release in my opinion.

Exactly.

The label got their 14 million dollars from best buy.

[wkuk04]

I respect Axl making Chinese Democracy. You have to live life in between records so your not regurgitating the same old songs and lyrics. He went in a different direction I respect him for that.

[Majestic Beast]

No respect for Axl making CD,we lost 15 years for a mediocre album.