Was Kurt Cobain Murdered?

[Dazey]

He wasn't murdered. He wanted to die, he always had a destructive thing about him. He was unhappy I think.

This.

It's weird how people want to attach a conspiracy to everything that happens in the world.

Sometimes bad things just happen. Not every noise in the woods is bigfoot, not every light in the sky is a UFO, not every disaster in the world is caused by the Illuminati or the government, and not every celebrity/political death is a secret murder and cover up.

This ^ The clinically depressed smackhead with a history of suicidal tendencies redecorates the wall of the conservatory in pink and it's clearly murder to some people. Edited November 17, 2014 by Dazey

[Apollo]

He wasn't murdered. He wanted to die, he always had a destructive thing about him. He was unhappy I think.

This.

It's weird how people want to attach a conspiracy to everything that happens in the world.

Sometimes bad things just happen. Not every noise in the woods is bigfoot, not every light in the sky is a UFO, not every disaster in the world is caused by the Illuminati or the government, and not every celebrity/political death is a secret murder and cover up.

This ^ The clinically depressed smackhead with a history of suicidal tendencies redecorates the wall of the conservatory in pink and it's clearly murder to some people.

Dazey for President!!!!

[Len Cnut]

Murdered or not, I feel nothing but sorrow for that boy. What a fuckin' place you must be in in your head to like, have the world at your feet and just wanna hide and hibernate and do smack and potter about your house like a lunatic. The boy was a fuckin' monster with his guitar on, that was his job and he did it better than everyone else in his generation...but despite all that he just couldn't get it straight with himself. Sad sad sad.

He was one of those people so talented, so inately fuckin' genius that to me, listening to his jam sessions is better than a lot of other great artists best work, when he had that thing strapped on his and he got into his rhythm it just sounded sublime. He wrote the most colourful lyrics I've ever come across, grossly self aware, kinda bouncing between profound and then like....taking the piss out of it. Or just plain funny.

That kid was the fuckin' business, the best my generation had to offer and he's worthy of standing up alongside any of em. If he was my mate I'd just grip him, chuck him in a room, lock the door and go 'right, fuck you, i ain't leaving here now and neither are you and if you try to I'm gonna kick the fuckin' shit out of you' until he got all the skag out of him. Wouldn't make a lot of difference though, cleaning up just levels off the physical dependency, it don't fix your head up.

Just feels like someone could've done something, anything. The best of his fuckin' generation and where does it end, on a fuckin' greenhouse floor with his fuckin' head blown off, fuckssake man

[Amish]

Say what? His lyrics and vocals were garbage.

[bran]

Say what? His lyrics and vocals were garbage.

[Len Cnut]

Yeeeeeeeah, cant really be bothered having that conversation here in 2014, thanks

[Val22]

What would it matter now?

I want to know what really happened to Marilyn Monroe and Natalie Wood, but then I think, it won't bring them back to life, so what's the point of it all?

Some people are saying Brian Jones from the Rolling Stones was murdered too.

When you watch some news reports on these people it does seem like they all could have been murdered, but there doesn't seem to be any proof or if there is, it's hidden.

Kurt was mentally ill and a lot of mentally ill people commit or try to commit suicide. Sad, but true.

[arnold layne]

Say what? His lyrics and vocals were garbage.

As nonsensical as they sounded, there were times when I'd rewind a song and go, 'what did he just say?' The lyric 'Nature is a whore' sounds juvenile to most, but I think it's fucking brilliant and it continues to stick with me. There's just something about it. Yes, to most people it sounds meaningless, but to me, it's just so bizarrely profound.

I tend to over analyze more than most though.

Edited November 18, 2014 by arnold layne

[Dan H.]

Is it still cool to hate on Nirvana?

Edited November 18, 2014 by LiveFromNormal

[Nosaj Thing]

Who cares. 2pac and Biggie Smalls murders are still unsolved.

[Forsaken]

Murdered or not, I feel nothing but sorrow for that boy. What a fuckin' place you must be in in your head to like, have the world at your feet and just wanna hide and hibernate and do smack and potter about your house like a lunatic. The boy was a fuckin' monster with his guitar on, that was his job and he did it better than everyone else in his generation...but despite all that he just couldn't get it straight with himself. Sad sad sad.

He was one of those people so talented, so inately fuckin' genius that to me, listening to his jam sessions is better than a lot of other great artists best work, when he had that thing strapped on his and he got into his rhythm it just sounded sublime. He wrote the most colourful lyrics I've ever come across, grossly self aware, kinda bouncing between profound and then like....taking the piss out of it. Or just plain funny.

That kid was the fuckin' business, the best my generation had to offer and he's worthy of standing up alongside any of em. If he was my mate I'd just grip him, chuck him in a room, lock the door and go 'right, fuck you, i ain't leaving here now and neither are you and if you try to I'm gonna kick the fuckin' shit out of you' until he got all the skag out of him. Wouldn't make a lot of difference though, cleaning up just levels off the physical dependency, it don't fix your head up.

Just feels like someone could've done something, anything. The best of his fuckin' generation and where does it end, on a fuckin' greenhouse floor with his fuckin' head blown off, fuckssake man

[dalsh327]

I think people should remember him more for the humor, the way he had with words, the pain he could convey in the songs, because it all came from a real place. A 2 minute interaction between Kurt and Axl has been blown up into something bigger than it was, and what Duff did with the GNR guys was worse by his own admission. Nirvana didn't want to be Axl's birthday band or support act by the time he was asked. Nirvana had played festivals by that time and had a taste for the big time.

Courtney had nada to gain from Kurt's death when she could make a lot of money in her own band. She wanted to prove her worth as an artist. Kim Gordon warned her she was going to be in Kurt's shadow because Nirvana was taking off at the time and Hole was moderately successful, and this is something she's had to deal with for the past 20 years.

Maybe if Courtney was Kurt's manager, then maybe she would have had something to gain from her death. She gave a lot of his stuff away when he died, she acted out in public and her own band became derailed for all sorts of reasons.

The conspiracy theory will be kept alive as long as there's money to be made and books to be sold. It doesn't help the memory of the band in any way, but people love a good conspiracy theory.

Edited November 18, 2014 by dalsh327

[Amish]

Say what? His lyrics and vocals were garbage.

As nonsensical as they sounded, there were times when I'd rewind a song and go, 'what did he just say?' The lyric 'Nature is a whore' sounds juvenile to most, but I think it's fucking brilliant and it continues to stick with me. There's just something about it. Yes, to most people it sounds meaningless, but to me, it's just so bizarrely profound.

I tend to over analyze more than most though.

Even Kurt himself said his lyrics were nonsense and that the words didn't matter so much as the music. I'll give it to him on the music, but the words are terrible. That wouldn't be a bad thing really if his vocals weren't also terrible. On the three things that make up a song, Nirvana fails at 2 of them.

Elton John has often said the same thing about lyrics vs. music, but the difference is that Elton's voice AND music soars above the rest.

[Lio]

How anyone can think Kurt's vocals are terrible, is beyond me.

[netcat]

I like his voice. It reflects so many shades of pain.

Must have something to do with the fact that he had undiagnosed chronic stomach ache for almost all his life.

maybe that was one of the reasons he started to do heroin and then killed himself

http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/468907/Did-Irritable-Bowel-Syndrome-kill-music-icon-Kurt-Cobain

Edited November 18, 2014 by netcat

[Amish]

I like his voice. It reflects so many shades of pain.

Must have something to do with the fact that he had undiagnosed chronic stomach ache for almost all his life.

maybe that was one of the reasons he started to do heroin and then killed himself

http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/468907/Did-Irritable-Bowel-Syndrome-kill-music-icon-Kurt-Cobain

And this right here is part of what ruined music...all these vocalists suddenly stepping up trying to conjure "pain"...the old "tortured soul" mechanism. It's garbage and sounds like shit. Almost every mainstream rock vocalist since Nirvana has tried to reproduce that bullshit "pained and tortured" effect. It ruined vocals.

p.s. I don't care how "real" anyone's "pain" is, why do I want to listen to shitty, whiny vocals?

Edited November 18, 2014 by Amish

[Satanisk_Slakt]

I'll say this as already have been brought up by some. The way he could transfer the pain into both his vocals and guitar playing was amazing - and unique. I've never in my life heard anyone that was able to do it like he did and he had one of the greatest ears for melodies of all time too. I love his lyrics. I've listened a lot to songs he recorded on cassette tapes in his home last years and I would take them over the things released on albums. I love that he was able to make the guitar sound good even when it was out of tune, I love when his voice was cracking. Songs like DoReMi, Old Age and Opinion, the acoustic version of You Know You're Right with a different lyrics, call it Dream or whatever. I only wish we had more songs like that.

[Damn_Smooth]

How anyone can think Kurt's vocals are terrible, is beyond me.

Easy. Just listen to them.

[Len Cnut]

It fuckin' cracks me up how everybody becomes a fuckin' geezer when it comes to slaggin' off Kurt Cobain, the amount of people I've seen on here's going 'he's whiney' or 'he's a pussy' or...y'know, etc etc, the usual bullshit party line. And some of the people doing this actually cracks me up cuz like, i don't wanna blow anybody up here but I'm sure you all know to yourself, half of you cunts can't fuckin' hack it when some tart gives you the elbow, suddenly you're all fuckin' 'depressed'. Miser was a massive one, went up and down calling the man a pussy, which coming from Miser is um...well, i don't need to clarify there really, do i?

And he ain't the only fuckin' one either. Y'know what i think really bothers folk? They see themselves in him, that aspect of themselves in him and they hate it. It just cracks me up, the amount of hard-case, blue collar geezers...that also happen to be forum-jockeys

[Nosaj Thing]

I understand what you're saying Lennie, but to me he was completely uninteresting and his music did nothing for me. I will never consider him a "legend" or whatever the fuck his fans say about him. I think people have that freedom.

[Len Cnut]

Oh true...and you're most welcome to that position, what i was talking about is the act of just using something like 'pussy' etc as a criticism, not disliking his music, you can do that all day long. Disliking his music, well you can tell by just a brief listen that it ain't gonna be everyones cup of tea

[Amir]

It fuckin' cracks me up how everybody becomes a fuckin' geezer when it comes to slaggin' off Kurt Cobain, the amount of people I've seen on here's going 'he's whiney' or 'he's a pussy' or...y'know, etc etc, the usual bullshit party line. And some of the people doing this actually cracks me up cuz like, i don't wanna blow anybody up here but I'm sure you all know to yourself, half of you cunts can't fuckin' hack it when some tart gives you the elbow, suddenly you're all fuckin' 'depressed'. Miser was a massive one, went up and down calling the man a pussy, which coming from Miser is um...well, i don't need to clarify there really, do i?

And he ain't the only fuckin' one either. Y'know what i think really bothers folk? They see themselves in him, that aspect of themselves in him and they hate it. It just cracks me up, the amount of hard-case, blue collar geezers...that also happen to be forum-jockeys

I think his music has to hit you at the right time. I listened to a lot Nirvana when I was 13-18, but now I just don't have the taste for it, and a part of it is that solipsistic self-pitying aspect. I don't deny the art and craft to it, there's a million self-wallowing artists who are shit, Cobain wasn't one of them, his music did resonate when I was a teenager. Similarly, I listened to quite a lot of NIN a few years ago, but because I'm not in that headspace any more, I don't care for a lot of songs I used to listen to on repeat; all the same I respect Trent Reznor as an artist and understand the importance of that body of work. Yeah, when I got the elbow from a girl or whoever back then, Kurt and Trent helped. Now because I don't have those hormonal extremes of emotion, it's all a bit too much for me. In a way, it makes me sad that I don't get that sad I tried listening to Nights in White Satin the other day, which I always thought was one of the most beautiful sincere songs about young love. I still like it, but I can't lose myself in it completely like I could a decade ago.

I love Chinese Democracy because again, it hit me at the right time, when I listened to those lyrics at the fag end of adolescence/beginning of adulthood, they resonated with me. Listening to There Was A Time was a rapturous experience for me. But I was thinking a few months ago that if I listened to that album now for the first time, I most likely wouldn't care for it even half as much. Same with the film Donnie Darko; as a self-absorbed teenager I obviously loved a film where the whole universe almost literally revolves around one self-absorbed teenager

[Len Cnut]

It fuckin' cracks me up how everybody becomes a fuckin' geezer when it comes to slaggin' off Kurt Cobain, the amount of people I've seen on here's going 'he's whiney' or 'he's a pussy' or...y'know, etc etc, the usual bullshit party line. And some of the people doing this actually cracks me up cuz like, i don't wanna blow anybody up here but I'm sure you all know to yourself, half of you cunts can't fuckin' hack it when some tart gives you the elbow, suddenly you're all fuckin' 'depressed'. Miser was a massive one, went up and down calling the man a pussy, which coming from Miser is um...well, i don't need to clarify there really, do i?

And he ain't the only fuckin' one either. Y'know what i think really bothers folk? They see themselves in him, that aspect of themselves in him and they hate it. It just cracks me up, the amount of hard-case, blue collar geezers...that also happen to be forum-jockeys

I think his music has to hit you at the right time. I listened to a lot Nirvana when I was 13-18, but now I just don't have the taste for it, and a part of it is that solipsistic self-pitying aspect. I don't deny the art and craft to it, there's a million self-wallowing artists who are shit, Cobain wasn't one of them, his music did resonate when I was a teenager. Similarly, I listened to quite a lot of NIN a few years ago, but because I'm not in that headspace any more, I don't care for a lot of songs I used to listen to on repeat; all the same I respect Trent Reznor as an artist and understand the importance of that body of work. Yeah, when I got the elbow from a girl or whoever back then, Kurt and Trent helped. Now because I don't have those hormonal extremes of emotion, it's all a bit too much for me. In a way, it makes me sad that I don't get that sad I tried listening to Nights in White Satin the other day, which I always thought was one of the most beautiful sincere songs about young love. I still like it, but I can't lose myself in it completely like I could a decade ago.

I love Chinese Democracy because again, it hit me at the right time, when I listened to those lyrics at the fag end of adolescence/beginning of adulthood, they resonated with me. Listening to There Was A Time was a rapturous experience for me. But I was thinking a few months ago that if I listened to that album now for the first time, I most likely wouldn't care for it even half as much. Same with the film Donnie Darko; as a self-absorbed teenager I obviously loved a film where the whole universe almost literally revolves around one self-absorbed teenager

Looking at it like that even i don't listen to Nirvana anymore, not cuz they're crap but because at a certain point in my life, from age 11 to 15 I just listened them into the ground. Thinking about it i don't even listen to The Sex Pistols anymore, how many times can you possibly hear the same album over and over and over and over and over? I was just making a distinction about a very specific thing there, I can see why people wouldn't like Nirvana or 'grow out of it', which is something I never understood. My first band ever that i liked was The Monkees and i love and adore them still.

but honestly, I've never been the one to like 'identify' with music in the sense of 'i've broken up with a bird, he's singing about breaking up with birds, wow, we must be kindred spirits!' My....associations were a lot more broad. I liked Nirvana because, musically, it had the intensity of a man in a straight-jacket repeatedly hurling himself at a brick wall.

[Amir]

but honestly, I've never been the one to like 'identify' with music in the sense of 'i've broken up with a bird, he's singing about breaking up with birds, wow, we must be kindred spirits!' My....associations were a lot more broad. I liked Nirvana because, musically, it had the intensity of a man in a straight-jacket repeatedly hurling himself at a brick wall.

It's a combination of the two for me. A load of songwriters write about love and lost love and other subjects, but a lot of them don't connect with me because of that lack of intensity like you said. Any normal bloke would sound sappy singing "I would do anything for you" over and over again, but it was Axl's intensity on TWAT that blew me away. In the case of Nirvana, it's often the intensity and not the lyrical content with which people identify. What on earth is Smells Like Teen Spirit about? It's the energy that most people love about that song, not the lyrics.

[Len Cnut]

Axls intensity last blew me away on Right Next Door to Hell, listening to it on one of those Phillips tape recorders your mum used to keep in the kitchen, on the floor of the front room of the house i grew up in. Dunno why but i remember that shit really vividly, green carpet, knackered old card table in the far corner, odd.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Lennie Godber