Was Kurt Cobain Murdered?

[Mansin Humanity]

but honestly, I've never been the one to like 'identify' with music in the sense of 'i've broken up with a bird, he's singing about breaking up with birds, wow, we must be kindred spirits!' My....associations were a lot more broad. I liked Nirvana because, musically, it had the intensity of a man in a straight-jacket repeatedly hurling himself at a brick wall.

I don't think it's a deal of "ohh Trent (or Axl, Kurt, whatever) we're so connected!" but more as an outlet for energy with something like that. I've always seen it as a positive way to get thoughts in or out of your head.

[username]

Maybe with Kurt you don't really have to relate. He seems honest and sincere and so he's fascinating. I don't really feel connected in that way to any artist. But some just... have something to say that you find relatable at times and interesting as others. But most of all it's real.

[Dazey]

It fuckin' cracks me up how everybody becomes a fuckin' geezer when it comes to slaggin' off Kurt Cobain, the amount of people I've seen on here's going 'he's whiney' or 'he's a pussy' or...y'know, etc etc, the usual bullshit party line. And some of the people doing this actually cracks me up cuz like, i don't wanna blow anybody up here but I'm sure you all know to yourself, half of you cunts can't fuckin' hack it when some tart gives you the elbow, suddenly you're all fuckin' 'depressed'. Miser was a massive one, went up and down calling the man a pussy, which coming from Miser is um...well, i don't need to clarify there really, do i?

And he ain't the only fuckin' one either. Y'know what i think really bothers folk? They see themselves in him, that aspect of themselves in him and they hate it. It just cracks me up, the amount of hard-case, blue collar geezers...that also happen to be forum-jockeys

I think his music has to hit you at the right time. I listened to a lot Nirvana when I was 13-18, but now I just don't have the taste for it, and a part of it is that solipsistic self-pitying aspect. I don't deny the art and craft to it, there's a million self-wallowing artists who are shit, Cobain wasn't one of them, his music did resonate when I was a teenager. Similarly, I listened to quite a lot of NIN a few years ago, but because I'm not in that headspace any more, I don't care for a lot of songs I used to listen to on repeat; all the same I respect Trent Reznor as an artist and understand the importance of that body of work. Yeah, when I got the elbow from a girl or whoever back then, Kurt and Trent helped. Now because I don't have those hormonal extremes of emotion, it's all a bit too much for me. In a way, it makes me sad that I don't get that sad I tried listening to Nights in White Satin the other day, which I always thought was one of the most beautiful sincere songs about young love. I still like it, but I can't lose myself in it completely like I could a decade ago.

I love Chinese Democracy because again, it hit me at the right time, when I listened to those lyrics at the fag end of adolescence/beginning of adulthood, they resonated with me. Listening to There Was A Time was a rapturous experience for me. But I was thinking a few months ago that if I listened to that album now for the first time, I most likely wouldn't care for it even half as much. Same with the film Donnie Darko; as a self-absorbed teenager I obviously loved a film where the whole universe almost literally revolves around one self-absorbed teenager

Looking at it like that even i don't listen to Nirvana anymore, not cuz they're crap but because at a certain point in my life, from age 11 to 15 I just listened them into the ground. Thinking about it i don't even listen to The Sex Pistols anymore, how many times can you possibly hear the same album over and over and over and over and over? I was just making a distinction about a very specific thing there, I can see why people wouldn't like Nirvana or 'grow out of it', which is something I never understood. My first band ever that i liked was The Monkees and i love and adore them still.

but honestly, I've never been the one to like 'identify' with music in the sense of 'i've broken up with a bird, he's singing about breaking up with birds, wow, we must be kindred spirits!' My....associations were a lot more broad. I liked Nirvana because, musically, it had the intensity of a man in a straight-jacket repeatedly hurling himself at a brick wall.

Not really slagging Nirvana off. Just agree with Noel more than anything else.

Noel Gallagher explained that "At the time . . . it was written in the middle of grunge and all that, and I remember Nirvana had a tune called 'I Hate Myself and Want to Die', and I was like . . . 'Well, I'm not fucking having that.' As much as I fucking like him [Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain] and all that shit, I'm not having that. I can't have people like that coming over here, on smack, fucking saying that they hate themselves and they wanna die. That's fucking rubbish. Kids don't need to be hearing that nonsense." While Gallagher has stated he did not intend "Live Forever" as a direct retort to Nirvana or their music (being a professed fan of the band), he contrasted the lives of Cobain and his band at that point, saying, "Seems to me that here was a guy who had everything, and was miserable about it. And we had fuck-all, and I still thought that getting up in the morning was the greatest fuckin' thing ever, 'cause you didn't know where you'd end up at night. And we didn't have a pot to piss in, but it was fucking great, man"

Edited November 18, 2014 by Dazey

[Len Cnut]

That song title was a joke and has absolutely no relevance to the song it is the title of, it was a play on the fact everyone went on about him being this sad depressed character, its taken on something of a life beyond that since people have started bunging it on posters etc and obviously in view of how he ended up but it still was just a throwaway title for a song they did for Beavis and Butthead.

But honestly, as much as i love Noel 'kids dont need to be hearing that?' Remember, this man is a fan of The Smiths so you could take all that bollocks with a pinch of salt. And i mean massive fan of The Smiths. Patronising cunt, so what should kids 'hear', the happy music from the people of the sunshine institute?

Edited November 18, 2014 by Lennie Godber

[Dazey]

That song title was a joke and has absolutely no relevance to the song it is the title of, it was a play on the fact everyone went on about him being this sad depressed character, its taken on something of a life beyond that since people have started bunging it on posters etc and obviously in view of how he ended up but it still was just a throwaway title for a song they did for Beavis and Butthead.

But honestly, as much as i love Noel 'kids dont need to be hearing that?' Remember, this man is a fan of The Smiths so you could take all that bollocks with a pinch of salt. And i mean massive fan of The Smiths. Patronising cunt, so what should kids 'hear', the happy music from the people of the sunshine institute?

Gotta admit I've not heard the song in question but the sentiment stands. Maybe I'm just a grumpy old cunt eh? Just a little jaded by moaning bastards?

[Len Cnut]

I can see how that might occur

[Amish]

Y'know what i think really bothers folk? They see themselves in him, that aspect of themselves in him and they hate it. It just cracks me up, the amount of hard-case, blue collar geezers...that also happen to be forum-jockeys

No I don't see any of myself in any kind of nonsensical, manufactured pain and apathy.

[love&hates]

What would it matter now?

I want to know what really happened to Marilyn Monroe and Natalie Wood, but then I think, it won't bring them back to life, so what's the point of it all?

Some people are saying Brian Jones from the Rolling Stones was murdered too.

When you watch some news reports on these people it does seem like they all could have been murdered, but there doesn't seem to be any proof or if there is, it's hidden.

Kurt was mentally ill and a lot of mentally ill people commit or try to commit suicide. Sad, but true.

In this case i think it actually makes a huge difference to know if he was murdered or not ,afterall if real evidences come up that lead police to believe kurt was murdered couldnt this case still go to trial and the "murderer" pay for it ?

Plus think about his daughter ....one thing is knowing that your father took his life by choice , something completly different is knowing someone stole from your life for reasons you will never understand someone so important in your life.All that makes a huge difference in the way she will have to handle the subject in her life. Specially in this case wich one of the so called suspects of her dad death is her own mother (at least in terms of media).

[Len Cnut]

That song title was a joke and has absolutely no relevance to the song it is the title of, it was a play on the fact everyone went on about him being this sad depressed character, its taken on something of a life beyond that since people have started bunging it on posters etc and obviously in view of how he ended up but it still was just a throwaway title for a song they did for Beavis and Butthead.

But honestly, as much as i love Noel 'kids dont need to be hearing that?' Remember, this man is a fan of The Smiths so you could take all that bollocks with a pinch of salt. And i mean massive fan of The Smiths. Patronising cunt, so what should kids 'hear', the happy music from the people of the sunshine institute?

Gotta admit I've not heard the song in question but the sentiment stands. Maybe I'm just a grumpy old cunt eh? Just a little jaded by moaning bastards?

Quite brilliant lyrics i thought. Although I'm reasonably certain no one can really get the lyrics properly (part of the hilarity i feel) what you can get from it, or what i get from it is just brilliant, it's cynical, there's really really really broad references to like...see this is when i wish i was clever enough to explain things, they're really vague and free-associative but in them are little things that suggest like (strictly lyrically speaking here)...a kind of caring in an odd way. Kurt appeared to have this thing of like, expressing love or a kind of love through like...tending to someone almost, you have all these references to illness and like...expressing love or caring through like...helping someone...but not in a sort of carebears and flowers way but like...these really odd ideas like 'chew your meat for you, pass it back n forth' or 'you can cough on me again' in this song, to me it's kinda like a retarded way of saying i love you...or i care about you, like everyones afraid of everyones germs except the one they go to bed with at night, right?

And then like, the humour 'broken heart and broken bones, think of how a castrated horse feels', now if thats even what he's saying that could work on so many levels, broken heart and broken bones, like this guys beat up but think of how a castrated horse feels, you can't love with a broken heart anymore than you can't with a nub for a cock, right?

I've never seen anyone have such cynicism...but then offset it with a sort weird voyeuristic almost childlike perfunctory fascination with things like, i dunno, bodily functions or something. And then tie them into like, a love song, it's fantastic that he was able to make that all work together.

'One more quirky cliched phrase' is kinda like, taking the piss out of his own songwriting. There's just so much to his lyrics upon scrutiny, i think he's one of the best, one of the most nuanced and interesting songwriters i have ever ever ever ever come across. There are things he does with words that some of the best of em couldn't do, it really was something fantastic and it really does lend credence to the notion that there is no such thing as meaningless garble coming out of someone, or the idea that stream of consciousness of free association reflects nothing, i think anything that comes out of our minds at any given time has some kinda meaning to it, to a greater or lesser degree. Not that i think Kurts shit was necessarily free associative, i think he just tried to describe vague things, subtle things, he admitted himself that he liked lyrics that weren't especially overt.

OR...maybe all my interpretations are bullshit and it really is just free associative garble (which the amount of crossed out, juggled and adjusted lyrics in his journals kinda dispute I'd say) the fact that i was able to get that from it kinda says something of it's value. But even that, even the possbility that it's all a load of bollocks and he's had people poring over his shit for two decades just looking in a glass onion in and of itself is hilairious, there's a good possibility the jokes on me and my sort here

I think he was one of the best to do it, bless him, wherever he is.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Lennie Godber

[Len Cnut]

Y'know what i think really bothers folk? They see themselves in him, that aspect of themselves in him and they hate it. It just cracks me up, the amount of hard-case, blue collar geezers...that also happen to be forum-jockeys

No I don't see any of myself in any kind of nonsensical, manufactured pain and apathy.

Which would be about the expected response from someone suffering the above mentioned malady.

[wotiluv]

Kurt was definitely not murdered and Courtney suffered deeply from his death. She had multiple breakdowns and tried to kill herself with drugs over it. It took her a loooong time to get sober and multiple tries. Drug abuse is a slow suicide for some and and a fast one for others. People find it easy to make Courtney Love into a villain because of her stage persona - they perceive her as slut and whore - and many guys (and girls) who voice this nonsense about her being behind Kurt's death are delusional and should be retired for saying such a thing. Her performative persona is as much an act as is Slash's, Axl's, and any other rock star celebrity. She is actually very smart, extremely funny (listen to her Howard Stern interviews which she's done for years - they also reveal great gossip and tidbits about Kurt and others). She is a feeling human being and suffers from the same problems that non celebrities suffer from such as drug addiction, vanity, and just wanting to be famous lol but these days she is sober and has been pretty much proving it.

When she asked Ax to be the godfather of their child she was just teasing him and wanted his attention. She (unlike Kurt) found him attractive. She has always liked him. Way before the MTV incident happened she did an interview where she is in a shop wearing a GNR Teeshirt with Ax's image on it and she is trying on a leather jacket with his image on the back of it and she has a big huge smile on her face. Then in BTM documentary she mentions how there were only two men who she had her eyes on because they both had "great noses" - KURT & AX - seriously! She says Ax though was not a possibility "for obvious reasons" so she went for Kurt. I guess "for obvious reasons" meant that she knew he was not her match but she nonetheless found him attractive. It is possible Kurt may have known this and could have been a bit jealous. I would be!

Edited December 5, 2014 by wotiluv

[dalsh327]

Kurt was definitely not murdered and Courtney suffered deeply from his death. She had multiple breakdowns and tried to kill herself with drugs over it. It took her a loooong time to get sober and multiple tries. Drug abuse is a slow suicide for some and and a fast one for others. People find it easy to make Courtney Love into a villain because of her stage persona - they perceive her as slut and whore - and many guys (and girls) who voice this nonsense about her being behind Kurt's death are delusional and should be retired for saying such a thing. Her performative persona is as much an act as is Slash's, Axl's, and any other rock star celebrity. She is actually very smart, extremely funny (listen to her Howard Stern interviews which she's done for years - they also reveal great gossip and tidbits about Kurt and others). She is a feeling human being and suffers from the same problems that non celebrities suffer from such as drug addiction, vanity, and just wanting to be famous lol but these days she is sober and has been pretty much proving it.

When she asked Ax to be the godfather of their child she was just teasing him and wanted his attention. She (unlike Kurt) found him attractive. She has always liked him. Way before the MTV incident happened she did an interview where she is in a shop wearing a GNR Teeshirt with Ax's image on it and she is trying on a leather jacket with his image on the back of it and she has a big huge smile on her face. Then in BTM documentary she mentions how there were only two men who she had her eyes on because they both had "great noses" - KURT & AX - seriously! She says Ax though was not a possibility "for obvious reasons" so she went for Kurt. I guess "for obvious reasons" meant that she knew he was not her match but she nonetheless found him attractive. It is possible Kurt may have known this and could have been a bit jealous. I would be!

It's more like she became the godmother.

[wotiluv]

Kurt was definitely not murdered and Courtney suffered deeply from his death. She had multiple breakdowns and tried to kill herself with drugs over it. It took her a loooong time to get sober and multiple tries. Drug abuse is a slow suicide for some and and a fast one for others. People find it easy to make Courtney Love into a villain because of her stage persona - they perceive her as slut and whore - and many guys (and girls) who voice this nonsense about her being behind Kurt's death are delusional and should be retired for saying such a thing. Her performative persona is as much an act as is Slash's, Axl's, and any other rock star celebrity. She is actually very smart, extremely funny (listen to her Howard Stern interviews which she's done for years - they also reveal great gossip and tidbits about Kurt and others). She is a feeling human being and suffers from the same problems that non celebrities suffer from such as drug addiction, vanity, and just wanting to be famous lol but these days she is sober and has been pretty much proving it.

When she asked Ax to be the godfather of their child she was just teasing him and wanted his attention. She (unlike Kurt) found him attractive. She has always liked him. Way before the MTV incident happened she did an interview where she is in a shop wearing a GNR Teeshirt with Ax's image on it and she is trying on a leather jacket with his image on the back of it and she has a big huge smile on her face. Then in BTM documentary she mentions how there were only two men who she had her eyes on because they both had "great noses" - KURT & AX - seriously! She says Ax though was not a possibility "for obvious reasons" so she went for Kurt. I guess "for obvious reasons" meant that she knew he was not her match but she nonetheless found him attractive. It is possible Kurt may have known this and could have been a bit jealous. I would be!

It's more like she became the godmother.

hahaha well she's getting up there but she looks darn good and has plenty of funnn!

[wasted]

Courtney gave El Duce 40k to kill her old man then he died two laters.

I reckon given his mental problems, drug use he was pretty high on the suicide list. A manic depressive heroin addict kills himsf? Definite Geffen conspiracy.

[dalsh327]

I think Duce just said that for publicity, he wasn't exactly doing well himself. The only thing that makes it a conspiracy theory ties into Kristen Pfaff's death.

[Len Cnut]

I dont think so and, honestly, if you cant prove it conclusively you should probably shut the fuck up at this point.