Lio Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 If there is a God, then may He please get to the point. I figure I believe something or I wouldn't be so angry at Him for what keeps happening to my family.Mom put in hospital Tuesday for her heart. My brother's passing did her in. We'e praying. ISN'T THAT WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, GOD??Our dear friend who we call the fifth sibling, a huge part of our Mom's life got a brain aneuryism yesterday and now we sit in this hospital waiting and praying her through her surgery. She's 40!But I find my prayers have become WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT???God, it would be helpful if you moved on to Charles Manson and others like him, because you sure have focused enough time on some good and kind people. Leave us alone and GET TO THE POINT!!!AmenI don't know if God exists, but If he does, he sure likes to put us to the test. Big hug, Orsys, I know I'm quite early, but I hope 2015 will be better for you and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 If there is a God, then may He please get to the point. I figure I believe something or I wouldn't be so angry at Him for what keeps happening to my family.Mom put in hospital Tuesday for her heart. My brother's passing did her in. We'e praying. ISN'T THAT WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, GOD??Our dear friend who we call the fifth sibling, a huge part of our Mom's life got a brain aneuryism yesterday and now we sit in this hospital waiting and praying her through her surgery. She's 40!But I find my prayers have become WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT???God, it would be helpful if you moved on to Charles Manson and others like him, because you sure have focused enough time on some good and kind people. Leave us alone and GET TO THE POINT!!!Amensometimes i feel exactly the same. best of luck to you, your family and your friends Orsys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 If there is a God, then may He please get to the point. I figure I believe something or I wouldn't be so angry at Him for what keeps happening to my family.Mom put in hospital Tuesday for her heart. My brother's passing did her in. We'e praying. ISN'T THAT WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, GOD??Our dear friend who we call the fifth sibling, a huge part of our Mom's life got a brain aneuryism yesterday and now we sit in this hospital waiting and praying her through her surgery. She's 40!But I find my prayers have become WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT???God, it would be helpful if you moved on to Charles Manson and others like him, because you sure have focused enough time on some good and kind people. Leave us alone and GET TO THE POINT!!!AmenPerpare to be patronised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsys Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Probably Lennie, but I will ask this question, if it's not God doing this then what good is He, other than an inanimate thing to focus my frustration and anger? I have a punchbag for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Probably Lennie, but I will ask this question, if it's not God doing this then what good is He, other than an inanimate thing to focus my frustration and anger? I have a punchbag for that.The idea i suppose, from a believers perspective is that the occurances of your life are to be understood within a broader context, i.e. the cause and effect way in which our planet functions, everything is part of a bigger inter-connecting tapestry and the human beings tendency to think solely from ones own perspective as opposed to understanding oneself as merely a small part of this on-going divine experiment we call humanity.For example, the day the bus driver was 15 minutes late on the job is that day little Timmy who shall go on to cure cancer missed getting run over but a consequence of that is Sarah X was late to work and got fired and was no longer able to support her family who ended up on the streets and a consequence of that is, 15 years later little Timmy is robbed at a cashpoint by Sarahs little un's and etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and the only way for it to be understood is to first know every little detail of everything that ever happened in human history from the very beginning to the end, right down to which wind blew from which direction to blow which seeds to where, whereupon they grew and etc etc etc etc...then once you know that you are equipped to unravel the whole thing right up to the thing you want an explanation for....and then unravel everything that happened afterwards as a result of that thing and THEN, presumably, you'd be close to understanding why it happened. And based on that, there is no one purpose for anything, there are a million different purposes for everything on earth and it all ties together...by the grace of God. And thats why we don't get answers....because there is no one answer.If everything is pre-determined as one who believes would have it, down to the last detail of everything that occurs in each persons life well then nothing is incidental and it is all specifically put it place so that God can take us, both individually as well as the whole human race, where he wants us. Trouble is no sod knows where that is. I reckon it might be The Emirates Stadium Hows that for patronising? Edited November 20, 2014 by Lennie Godber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Science cannot disprove a intelligent creator figure existed, nor prove it. The only answer can surely be, 'we do not know', then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Science cannot disprove a intelligent creator figure existed, nor prove it. The only answer can surely be, 'we do not know', then.Which is true until people start to tell others what to do based on things that cannot be proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well that is why 'faith' exists. If you have faith that a god of a specific revealed religion exists, then intellectually and emotionally he exists for you so long as you are alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well that is why 'faith' exists. If you have faith that a god of a specific revealed religion exists, then intellectually and emotionally he exists for you so long as you are alive. That's not the point for the rest of us though is it. If somebody wants to take away a woman's reproductive rights or restrict same sex couples' legal rights then "faith" just doesn't cut it I'm afraid. That's pretty much my sole major quarrel with religion in general. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spliff Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well that is why 'faith' exists. If you have faith that a god of a specific revealed religion exists, then intellectually and emotionally he exists for you so long as you are alive. That's not the point for the rest of us though is it. If somebody wants to take away a woman's reproductive rights or restrict same sex couples' legal rights then "faith" just doesn't cut it I'm afraid. That's pretty much my sole major quarrel with religion in general. Well it is part of their theology. If a religion condemns homosexuality, guess what? The religion condemns homosexuality. These texts, the Bible, Koran, Nihon Shoki, sutras, et al. are not products of a politically correct modern western background. They were not written in Blair's Britain. To expect these religions to be 'enlightened' on subjects such as gender and sexality is to award them with politics and ethics which did not exist at the time these religions originated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well that is why 'faith' exists. If you have faith that a god of a specific revealed religion exists, then intellectually and emotionally he exists for you so long as you are alive. That's not the point for the rest of us though is it. If somebody wants to take away a woman's reproductive rights or restrict same sex couples' legal rights then "faith" just doesn't cut it I'm afraid. That's pretty much my sole major quarrel with religion in general. Well it is part of their theology. If a religion condemns homosexuality, guess what? The religion condemns homosexuality. These texts, the Bible, Koran, Nihon Shoki, sutras, et al. are not products of a politically correct modern western background. They were not written in Blair's Britain. To expect these religions to be 'enlightened' on subjects such as gender and sexality is to award them with politics and ethics which did not exist at the time these religions originated!I didn't say I expected them to be enlightened did I? Isn't God supposed to be all knowing though? Therefore his politics for want of a better word should be relevant to any period in history should they not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 You are confusing natural religion with revealed religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 None of us really know for sure (we don't know anything for sure really) if you want to be pedantic about it, but for all intents and purposes I am an atheist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsys Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Probably Lennie, but I will ask this question, if it's not God doing this then what good is He, other than an inanimate thing to focus my frustration and anger? I have a punchbag for that.The idea i suppose, from a believers perspective is that the occurances of your life are to be understood within a broader context, i.e. the cause and effect way in which our planet functions, everything is part of a bigger inter-connecting tapestry and the human beings tendency to think solely from ones own perspective as opposed to understanding oneself as merely a small part of this on-going divine experiment we call humanity.For example, the day the bus driver was 15 minutes late on the job is that day little Timmy who shall go on to cure cancer missed getting run over but a consequence of that is Sarah X was late to work and got fired and was no longer able to support her family who ended up on the streets and a consequence of that is, 15 years later little Timmy is robbed at a cashpoint by Sarahs little un's and etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and the only way for it to be understood is to first know every little detail of everything that ever happened in human history from the very beginning to the end, right down to which wind blew from which direction to blow which seeds to where, whereupon they grew and etc etc etc etc...then once you know that you are equipped to unravel the whole thing right up to the thing you want an explanation for....and then unravel everything that happened afterwards as a result of that thing and THEN, presumably, you'd be close to understanding why it happened. And based on that, there is no one purpose for anything, there are a million different purposes for everything on earth and it all ties together...by the grace of God. And thats why we don't get answers....because there is no one answer.If everything is pre-determined as one who believes would have it, down to the last detail of everything that occurs in each persons life well then nothing is incidental and it is all specifically put it place so that God can take us, both individually as well as the whole human race, where he wants us. Trouble is no sod knows where that is. I reckon it might be The Emirates Stadium Hows that for patronising?Pretty good. I actually feel like I can handle it all a bit better when I see us as mere ants with faulty design at best. It's more of the "shit happens" belief in life, the universe. My belief was always that I believe in God who is within me. God does not cause it all, God gets you through it all. But I can't really get there from here these days. I am usually able to find a way to find the positive thing to come out of bad stuff. Like how can you take these things and do something positive with it in the future. But it's been rapid fire with it all lately. Can't keep up. God was supposed to play a role in me being able to keep up. So today, my answer is no, god does not exist.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFA Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Well that is why 'faith' exists. If you have faith that a god of a specific revealed religion exists, then intellectually and emotionally he exists for you so long as you are alive. That's not the point for the rest of us though is it. If somebody wants to take away a woman's reproductive rights or restrict same sex couples' legal rights then "faith" just doesn't cut it I'm afraid. That's pretty much my sole major quarrel with religion in general. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Science cannot disprove a intelligent creator figure existed, nor prove it. The only answer can surely be, 'we do not know', then.Science cannot disprove invisible unicorns and leprechauns, nor prove that they exist. Does that mean we can't say they don't exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Science cannot disprove a intelligent creator figure existed, nor prove it. The only answer can surely be, 'we do not know', then.Science cannot disprove invisible unicorns and leprechauns, nor prove that they exist. Does that mean we can't say they don't exist?You can say what you like surely, the crux of it is ones ability to prove or disprove I suppose.P.S. Invisible unicorns do exist, i've seen em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanisk_Slakt Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 No, of course I don't believe in God. There is no evidence at all that there would be a God and if he indeed existed it baffles me that anyone would want to worship someone so cruel and evil as him. He has the power to stop all bad things from happening, all starvations, all child abuse, molesting, rape, women abuse, wars, diseases... everything - but chooses not to. This is the God we're told to worship? Get the fuck out of here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 No, of course I don't believe in God. There is no evidence at all that there would be a God and if he indeed existed it baffles me that anyone would want to worship someone so cruel and evil as him. He has the power to stop all bad things from happening, all starvations, all child abuse, molesting, rape, women abuse, wars, diseases... everything - but chooses not to. This is the God we're told to worship? Get the fuck out of here.The human being has the power to differentiate between right and wrong and he's the dominant being on earth, why should God act as a cosmic referee for our wrongdoings? Whys that easier than human beings behaving themselves and why should God have to step in and fix the human race and it's cock ups? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanisk_Slakt Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Because he has the power to.It's like saying that if you see five kids kicking on another kid lying on the ground, why should you intervene? It's up to the kids to solve their problems. It's bullshit. God is bullshit. Edited November 20, 2014 by Satanisk_Slakt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Whys that easier than human beings behaving themselves and why should God have to step in and fix the human race and it's cock ups?because Jesus loves you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Because he has the power to.It's like saying that if you see five kids kicking on another kid lying on the ground, why should you intervene? It's up to the kids to solve their problems. It's bullshit. God is bullshit. So...you have the power to save children too, do you do it? You know there is evil out there, why don't you do your bit to stop it? Perhaps if every human being did that then there wouldn't be a need for divine intervention, whys you and the rest of the human race being a decent a total unreachable stretch but then for the human race to destroy earth is all fine and good because really God should bail em out every time they are about to destroy themselves?Perhaps there are moral lessons in adversity that are a pre-requisite to your standing before the Lord and truly understanding the nature of his divinity and conversely your own purpose on earth? Whys that easier than human beings behaving themselves and why should God have to step in and fix the human race and it's cock ups?because Jesus loves you? But you don't love him, thats the way this relationships supposed to work? And all thats presuming that God is the God of Abraham, the God of 2,000 year old desert Israelites/bedouins/all the rest of the fuckin' folk that come under the Judeo-Christian-Islamic banner Edited November 20, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Whys that easier than human beings behaving themselves and why should God have to step in and fix the human race and it's cock ups?because Jesus loves you? But you don't love him, thats the way this relationships supposed to work? And all thats presuming that God is the God of Abraham, the God of 2,000 year old desert Israelites/bedouins/all the rest of the fuckin' folk that come under the Judeo-Christian-Islamic banner exactly. he's older therefore must be wiser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanisk_Slakt Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 What makes you think I don't? I donate money, I pay taxes, hell, I've even been going on these trips to eastern Europe a few times where we've helped out on orphanages, women prisons, given out supplies, tools, clothes, etc. and if I would ever see anyone abuse a child in any way with my own eyes you can bet on that I would do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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