Why do the UYI albums sound so dated?

[Dr. Who]

If you listen to Lies, TSI, Sympathy...All these sound relatively 'fresh', what I mean is, despite their obvious age, they do not come off 'dated', their sound is still very fresh to listen to, very cutting, raw and exciting. Compare the UYIs sound (guitars, bass, drums, especially) to that of other 1991 albums such as Ten, Nevermind, The Black Album, Blood Sugar Sex Majik, and others, and the albums have a very corporate, very...inorganic and sterile feel to them. I don't know if it is the mixing or the arrangement of the songs or what. Appetite is dated in sound too, but in a different way--it's dated by those late '80s things like the bass sound and Adler's drumming, but the sound is otherwise very accessible, very new, very in your face. Compare the following:

Arguably the three most important rockers from the Illusion set, Nevermind and Ten. Even Flow and Smells sound fresh, cutting, like they could fit in today production wise...YCBM, despite it's menace, sounds slick, perfect, well timed, and not very raw. The UYI records seem to suffer from what I'll call "Steel Wheels-itis"...Good songs covered in a slick studio sheen that sounds very corporate and dated. And I don't get why that is in the UYIs case.

What is that dates the UYI records? The vocals, the way they're mixed? The way Slash's guitar work is mixed? The lack of Izzy in the mix? The way Duff's bass is mixed? The drum sound? The arrangement and performance of the songs themselves?

[Len Cnut]

Lies doesn't sound less dated, Christ have you listened to the first side? As for the second side, only reason it isn't AS dated sounding is cuz it's more bare, one man with a guitar is something thats relevant to all eras. Appetite definitely sounds old, UYI sound old cuz they're over-produced and when you over-produce something you are restricted to whatever technology and trends are available at that time, things like that date quicker because technology and times move forward (some might say improve). TSI just sounds like a load of shit.

However neither Ten or Nevermind or The Black Album or Bloodsugarsexmagik sound organic as such, with the latter sounding the most organic. They are all very slick and very very polished albums...and they sound like it. What makes BSSM sound more organic and less dated is cuz, out of this lot of bands, they were the ones doing something more fresh, a weird whiteboy hybrid of funk and rap and all this shit that was really kinda contemporary, none of the aforementioned can honestly make that claim.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Lennie Godber

[estrangedtwat]

Everything you mentioned is dated. ALL of it. It all sounds dated cause it's fucking dated. All that shit is decades old.

Nevermind, Ten, UYI, Appetite, Lies....it's all dinosaur rock now.

About as "fresh" as the pencil thin mustache Clark Gable sported.

[Len Cnut]

About as "fresh" as the pencil thin mustache Clark Gable sported.

Those are coming back y'know, I'm sure of it The fuckin' beards come back, the tache, bushy, handlebar, pencil next in fuckin' line man, i can smell it man, like a freshly licked Gable lip

Edited November 29, 2014 by Lennie Godber

[Dr. Who]

Lies doesn't sound less dated, Christ have you listened to the first side? As for the second side, only reason it isn't AS dated sounding is cuz it's more bare, one man with a guitar is something thats relevant to all eras. Appetite definitely sounds old, UYI sound old cuz they're over-produced and when you over-produce something you are restricted to whatever technology and trends are available at that time, things like that date quicker because technology and times move forward (some might say improve). TSI just sounds like a load of shit.

However neither Ten or Nevermind or The Black Album or Bloodsugarsexmagik sound organic as such, with the latter sounding the most organic. They are all very slick and very very polished albums...and they sound like it. What makes BSSM sound more organic and less dated is cuz, out of this lot of bands, they were the ones doing something more fresh, a weird whiteboy hybrid of funk and rap and all this shit that was really kinda contemporary, none of the aforementioned can honestly make that claim.

I'd argue Nevermind was doing something fresh too. Mixing Beatle-esque pop melodies with Hard Rock and Punk tendencies.

Lies is dated in the sense of '80s production techniques and values, but it doesn't sound sterile or corporate.

The UYIs do.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Dr. Who

[Len Cnut]

Lies doesn't sound less dated, Christ have you listened to the first side? As for the second side, only reason it isn't AS dated sounding is cuz it's more bare, one man with a guitar is something thats relevant to all eras. Appetite definitely sounds old, UYI sound old cuz they're over-produced and when you over-produce something you are restricted to whatever technology and trends are available at that time, things like that date quicker because technology and times move forward (some might say improve). TSI just sounds like a load of shit.

However neither Ten or Nevermind or The Black Album or Bloodsugarsexmagik sound organic as such, with the latter sounding the most organic. They are all very slick and very very polished albums...and they sound like it. What makes BSSM sound more organic and less dated is cuz, out of this lot of bands, they were the ones doing something more fresh, a weird whiteboy hybrid of funk and rap and all this shit that was really kinda contemporary, none of the aforementioned can honestly make that claim.

I'd argue Nevermind was doing something fresh too. Mixing Beatle-esque pop melodies with Hard Rock and Punk tendencies.

Lies is dated in the sense of '80s production techniques and values, but it doesn't sound sterile or corporate.

The UYIs do.

Not really man, The Sex Pistols were mixing Beatles-esque pop melodies with the aforementioned...punk in general really, especially in the big bands like The Clash and The Damned etc.

I don't think 'corporate' is a value specifically pertaining to sound.

[niceguy]

Production-wise, UYI has way too much reverb and compression on the drums, and that lends the album a very artificial sound. That artificial sound comes across analogous to early CGI effects in tv or movies.

Look at some CGI from 91, then compare it to modern work. The difference is astounding.

Just like your eyes can tell you when something is just too artificial, your ears can do the same.

So when you have Axl doing Chester cheetah, layering tons of weird vocals, and then topping off the instruments with huge amounts of reverb-- well, your brain. Interprets it as artificial.

That's really the only way I can describe it to someone who isn't an audio engineer: it's like comparing early cgi to modern cgi.

[Dr. Who]

Lies doesn't sound less dated, Christ have you listened to the first side? As for the second side, only reason it isn't AS dated sounding is cuz it's more bare, one man with a guitar is something thats relevant to all eras. Appetite definitely sounds old, UYI sound old cuz they're over-produced and when you over-produce something you are restricted to whatever technology and trends are available at that time, things like that date quicker because technology and times move forward (some might say improve). TSI just sounds like a load of shit.

However neither Ten or Nevermind or The Black Album or Bloodsugarsexmagik sound organic as such, with the latter sounding the most organic. They are all very slick and very very polished albums...and they sound like it. What makes BSSM sound more organic and less dated is cuz, out of this lot of bands, they were the ones doing something more fresh, a weird whiteboy hybrid of funk and rap and all this shit that was really kinda contemporary, none of the aforementioned can honestly make that claim.

I'd argue Nevermind was doing something fresh too. Mixing Beatle-esque pop melodies with Hard Rock and Punk tendencies.

Lies is dated in the sense of '80s production techniques and values, but it doesn't sound sterile or corporate.

The UYIs do.

Not really man, The Sex Pistols were mixing Beatles-esque pop melodies with the aforementioned...punk in general really, especially in the big bands like The Clash and The Damned etc.

I don't think 'corporate' is a value specifically pertaining to sound.

What I mean is like,

You can listen to a song like "Satisfaction" by the Stones, or "God Save the Queen" or "I Wanna Be Sedated", and these are all old songs, sure, and they might have some production values of their respective eras--but they do not sound sterile. They do not sound studio produced, if that makes sense. They have a raw, timeless edge to them, even just in their production...Whereas listen to "Mixed Emotions" by the Stones; it's very slick, it doesn't have any real timelessness to it. I'm not a music producer, so I'm not sure of the terms. I just feel there is a definite lack of rawness, excitement, energy and a lack of an organic sound to the UYI records. Even TSI sounds less 'studio', and more organic. I'm not even talking about overproduction in terms of orchestras or piano...I'm talking about even the sound of the rockers. The mixing. It just doesn't sound very raw or very real.

Production-wise, UYI has way too much reverb and compression on the drums, and that lends the album a very artificial sound. That artificial sound comes across analogous to early CGI effects in tv or movies.

Look at some CGI from 91, then compare it to modern work. The difference is astounding.

Just like your eyes can tell you when something is just too artificial, your ears can do the same.

So when you have Axl doing Chester cheetah, layering tons of weird vocals, and then topping off the instruments with huge amounts of reverb-- well, your brain. Interprets it as artificial.

That's really the only way I can describe it to someone who isn't an audio engineer: it's like comparing early cgi to modern cgi.

This is basically what I was trying to say. I was hoping for someone versed in production to lay it out like that.

Did he also use reverb on the guitars? They have a rather artificial sound compared to other GN'R records.

[dalsh327]

GNR had gone against the grain when they made AFD because a lot of producers were doing digital shit.

I'm sure Axl could have UYI remixed but there's a lot of songs on there that don't sound "overproduced". Some of the albums recorded in the 80s had really lousy production because there was a lot of bandwagon jumping onto doing everything digital. Even David Lee Roth's talked about minimizing the synths on Skyscraper and have it showcase Vai more. Rush went way overboard with electronics in the 80s but I don't know if I'd want a remixed Power Windows

[wkuk04]

About as "fresh" as the pencil thin mustache Clark Gable sported.

Those are coming back y'know, I'm sure of it The fuckin' beards come back, the tache, bushy, handlebar, pencil next in fuckin' line man, i can smell it man, like a freshly licked Gable lip

Frankly my estrangedtwat I don't give a damn.

[Strange Broue]

Why do Miser threads sound dated?

[seagullview]

I'm surprised how NOT dated it sounds. When I redicovered GN'R in 2011 after an almost 20 year break (which may have helped) I was surprised how fresh the music sounded and how well the music still held up. I'd say GN'R are the band that from the 80s/early 90s holds up the best today. Even the way they dressed still looks cool almost 30 years later. I mean GN'R music in general, not particularly UYI, but I dont see any differences between their albums

Edited November 29, 2014 by seagullview

[Carburetta]

Still sound great (and fresh) to me.

[DannyVinyard]

Am I the only one who thinks UYI production is pretty much perfect and still sounds new and fresh? Estranged, November Rain, Don't Cry, Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Locomotive don't sound dated whatsoever to me. I think the production for those albums were ahead of it's time.

[Damn_Smooth]

So basically this thread is just another failed miser cupcake attempt that failed not because anybody was trying to take the piss out of it but because the tiniest amount of common sense exposed it for what it was.

Week 3 and the spazzout inches closer.

[dando]

Am I the only one who thinks UYI production is pretty much perfect and still sounds new and fresh? Estranged, November Rain, Don't Cry, Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Locomotive don't sound dated whatsoever to me. I think the production for those albums were ahead of it's time.

I agree with ya, a lot of the illusions stuff was a few years ahead of it's time

[Dr. Who]

Am I the only one who thinks UYI production is pretty much perfect and still sounds new and fresh? Estranged, November Rain, Don't Cry, Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Locomotive don't sound dated whatsoever to me. I think the production for those albums were ahead of it's time.

I agree with ya, a lot of the illusions stuff was a few years ahead of it's time

How so? There's not really any bands of the latter part of the '90s, or even really today, that were really inspired by the UYI era GN'R sound.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Dr. Who

[DannyVinyard]

GN'R sound can't be duplicated, which is why no other bands sound like them.

[Giblet]

Drums. The drums are horrific.

[bacardimayne]

BSSM and Ten don't sound dated?

I'd argue that the Black Album sounds more "corporate" and soulless than anything else on your list.

Edited November 29, 2014 by bacardimayne

[Klay]

UYI are my fav sounding albuns ever. I love the contrast between the trebly guitars and the bass/drums; the mid frequencies are somewhat missing and that makes this album sound perfect to me and maybe sterile to you.

It all comes down to your opinion vs everybody else's opinion - no one's right or wrong.

[Johnny Drama]

Matt's drumkit in stadium sized toilet cubicle sound, Duff's bass tone, Slash's big sound, Axl's multiple layers of vocals and the inexplicable lowering of Izzy in the mix (see Paradise City Rio 91 when Slash stops playing for a couple seconds during the first verse and tell me that wasn't criminal).

[Free Bird]

There are some classics on both of the albums and classics can't be dated.

[shotsfired cro]

depends on your personal perspective.

if you pu on a cd thinking it was recorded 1971, 1988 or 1991, of course it will sound dated.

hell, album from 2005 or 2010 will sound dated.

personally, I always thought UYI's were epic, I grew up on them, boughtbthem backin the day and still say I never heard more complete albums wit variety in sound and all - just epic.

Band said back in the day that the albums were 'overproduced' and since then ppl who ddn't listen to those albums once tend to say 'UYI's are overproduced', yet in th 23 years I didn't come across 1 person who could argumentably define me what they mean by that.

Just give us a break and enjoy them as they were. There is one 'Bad Apple' on 2 cd's, My World, everything else is just GREAT.

Coma, Estranged, Breakdown, Civil War, YCBM, DTJ, Pretty tied up, Locomotive, Don't cry, NR, Right next door, Perfect crime, Dead Horse, Bad Apples, Back off, Don't damn me...name me an album or a record that had so much GREATNESS and came out on the same day or one double album!?!?

[Snowmass]

UYI's rule. They kick ass. I remember the midnight release. Everything Guns did was outstanding. You want to talk dated- listen to the "industrial" CD. That sounds dated more than the UYI's to me.