2016 National Football League (NFL) Regular Season

[classicrawker]

LIS Aaron is struggling too. The entire offense is out of sync right now. I'm putting more of the blame on the receivers because they've dropped a ton of third down and touchdown catches since the bye. Cobb (Detroit, Minnesota), Jones (every game but Minnesota, though he dropped one there too) and Adams (every game) are all guilty of it.

However, the reason I'm blaming coaching more is that the built in audibles are all basic, vanilla routes. The offense has become too predictable without having a deep threat. The short/intermediate vanilla routes don't work when teams can simply play two high press. We're getting absolutely no production from the tight end position because Dick Rod is basically a goal line threat only (Quarless coming back should help), considering how slow he is and his lack of ability to break a tackle.

McCarthy's refusal to play Janis, even if it's simply a decoy is the dumbest thing I can possibly think of. Literally every time he's even had the chance to touch the ball good things have happened - either a long completion (or the play where Aaron flipped him the ball 5 yards and he ran for 40) or a pass interference. Who cares if he doesn't run the exact correct routes - nobody else can get open anyway and they don't get benched.

Aaron deserves the Carolina loss, though it's hard to score 37 on an undefeated team on the road. He doesn't deserve the Detroit or Chicago losses - that's clearly on the coaching staff and receivers (and Crosby for whatever the fuck happened on the GW field goal vs Detroit)

I wasn't blaming Capers for those losses. I said his defense performs poorly against smart QB's...Stafford and Cutler are not in that category

Not denying that the receivers have been brutal but after watching the Detroit and Chicago games Arod was a big part of the problem IMHO...He is throwing more 3 quarters then over the top so I am guessing his shoulder is worse then anyone is letting on but he has also been very tentative.........

....I do agree they need to play Janis more....can't be worse than what they have now......... .

If Rodgers is injured then the problems again lie with the coaching staff. Here's the play breakdown the past 4 weeks (pass/run):

CHI - 43/24

MIN - 34/30

DET - 61/17

CAR - 48/14

Notice the game we won we had the closest ratio? Especially since all Mac does is talk about how important that ratio is (even saying that he doesn't care if the rushes get yards; it's all about the attempts). 21 of the last 22 plays against the Bears were pass calls...that's ridiculous considering it was raining and the run game was gashing them (the RB's averaged about 6 yards per carry).

Again I think the issues with Rodgers accuracy is being overblown. His decision making (getting the ball out quicker) is his problem, and that's being highlighted by the fact that the receivers can't get open (due to their lack of talent and vanilla routes). Rodgers has put the ball on them numerous times in the perfect position just to have them drop it. This is particularly tough when it happens on third down or when the player is wide open for a touchdown, and when all three receivers are guilty of it.

Thankfully Quarless and Abbrederis are both practicing this week. Don't think either of them plays, but they could be what the offense needs outside of Janis, and since Mac is being stupid and not playing him they seem to be our only hope.

I think it is a combination of all of the above but I think you are downplaying the accuracy issue. I watched all 4 of the games you mentioned above and Arod missed throws he would have made easily in the past. I am sure some of it is related to not being on the same page as the receivers but he made bad throws where the receiver never had a chance to catch I have never seen him make in the past. The receiver was open but Arod could not get him the ball. His throwing motion is very visibly lower then it was when he was throwing well IMHO....

Not sure how it is the coaches fault Arod is not throwing well but I am guessing maybe they feel him playing at 80% is better than Tolzien at 100%

We must be watching different games because imo, Rodgers biggest problem hasn't been accuracy, it's been decision making. Sure, he hasn't been his normal super human-like accurate the past few games, but he's placed more perfectly accurate passes that have simply been dropped versus poorly thrown passes during that time. Not to mention, he's throwing it to a slot guy as his #1, a black hole as a #2 and an inconsistent #3, all of who are running iso routes on every play (and not getting open).

The space he's had to throw into this year has been severely limited, which in turn is limiting his accuracy. It's hard to get the ball out quick when you run an iso route and the other team is playing two high press and your receivers can't get open off the line (i.e why the ball doesn't come out quickly) and it's hard to throw it accurately when you need to let routes develop and you have pressure in your face by the time the receivers get down field and your receivers still don't get open. For example that pick on Thursday was a microcosm on Mac and Adams - Mac not scheming correctly and Adams not getting to the ball. Rodgers threw it accurately to the spot Adams would be at if he won his matchup; he didn't, and the ball was an easy pick for Porter.

My blame list is:

A. McCarthy/Clements (mostly Mac, for the many reasons outlined)

B. Adams (then the rest of the receivers, including DickRod)

C. Rodgers

D. Injuries (though this is tied directly to Mac and to a lesser degree Clements)

Edit: I believe the Packers receivers have the second slowest 40 times (without Jordy)...the slowest is the Patriots. You know what Bill does extremely well, other than cheat? They run schemes that allow their players to get open. That's why the blame is almost entirely on Mac - he's too lazy or stubborn to adjust. Also the lack of playing time for the closest player the Packers have to Jordy, even if he's extremely raw. Then the lack of commitment to the run, even when it's working. I could continue on, but I think you get the point

We will have to agree to disagree then because from what I have seen he has missed throws this year he never would have missed in years past and the receivers were open.

But I do agree with most of the issues you listed with the offense.

Edited November 30, 2015 by classicrawker

[Crazyman]

We will have to agree to disagree then because from what I have seen he has missed throws this year he never would have missed in years past and the receivers were open.

But I do agree with most of the issues you listed with the offense.

This, and once to Cobb (I think) against Carolina are the only times I've seen a receiver get wide open and Rodgers simply throw a duck their way:

https://vine.co/v/iuaHvBxjFwE

Then you get about a half dozen of these over the same time period and they all end the same way...and go figure he's open... on a bunch formation!

https://vine.co/v/iuajrhlEzHv

This is the problem. The lack of plays like this:

https://vine.co/v/iBEhZKdpTgq

Nice designed, non-iso route.

Rodgers accuracy isn't super-human right now, but it's not the main problem. Mac seems too insistent on forcing him to make air-tight throws on every other play instead of scheming to get his receivers better looks off the line. Then you have Clements compounding it with stupid shotgun zone runs on third/fourth and short, which almost always gets stuffed (Lacy got stuffed at least once on both in of our last two losses). The Packers started using some pistol the past few weeks...but then ran out of it almost exclusively. Why they don't start throwing it (or literally doing anything else with any formation) I have no idea.

But again my biggest gripe with Rodger is decision making, not accuracy.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Crazyman

[Crazyman]

Rodgers deserves blame as well but giving him an excuse, I think either his shoulder or ankle is seriously bothering him.

The problems are:

1. Lack of playmakers to run McCarthy's offense which has been slumping since 2012

2. Injuries

3. Failure of coaching staff to adapt offense to fit current personnel

4. Bad play calling, e.g.: running was working vs. Chicago instead they throw to stone hands Adams 400 times

I think that's it.

I don't disagree with any of your points, but how have we been slumping since 2012 on offense? We led the league in scoring last year and when Rodgers was healthy in 2013 we averaged 31 points per game.

What changes has McCarthy / Rodgers made to the offense outside of Cobb in the backfield since 2012? The only reason they've been successful is because the run game (Lacy) has helped off-set the loss of Jennings and Finley. Also a better OL last year.

I know the Packers have put up a lot of points but that's mostly against garbage defenses and last year was a pretty cupcake schedule. Mikes 4WR all-verts offense has never and I mean never worked against a stout front 4 and press-man coverage.

I don't disagree with McCarthy being lazy in schemes and personnel. We've played out of the 11 about 85% of the time...even when it doesn't work (like this year). Personnel wise he's also being lackadaisical, especially this year again and now it's really showing. Having a good RB and OL are generally staples to having good offenses (outside of 2011).

I think we certainly benefited from playing our harder opponents at home, but I don't think I'd call it a cupcake schedule. Agreed though - press man and any type of pressure up front and we just crumble. It's why the Giants kept beating us before...we had no answer because Mike gets too stubborn and thinks we can just play through it for some reason.

You'd think with Mike giving up playcalling that he'd be more willing to adopt to other schemes/formations/personnel...NOPE. Even more stringent than ever

Edited December 1, 2015 by Crazyman

[Crazyman]

What pisses me off is how they haven't signed a shifty RB to catch passes.

This offense would be incredible if you had a guy like Darren Sproles in it. They even started to do some stuff with DuJuan Harris.

I don't get keeping Alonzo Harris (Lacy.5) and letting Neal walk when you don't play him.

Sigh so much stupid going on.

I still don't get why they kept Harris. Neal played much, much better than him (and against 2nd stringers rather than 3rd) and was way more versatile. We could've used that when Lacy went down and Starks played literally every snap in one of the games this year.

Starks provides a bit of pass catching ability but not much else. He sucks in pass pro, though he's gotten a little better lately. I'd like to see a Darren Sproles-type in this offense too, but you know Mac would never use him then

[bran]

58 passes 9 runs........

[Crazyman]

58 passes 9 runs........

I was thinking about this earlier...our arguments about the Packers in this thread is like the Football equivalent of "First World Problems"

[bran]

58 passes 9 runs........

I was thinking about this earlier...our arguments about the Packers in this thread is like the Football equivalent of "First World Problems"

i know right, you bastards

its like reading patriots forums melting down because they might get the #2 seed in the playoffs/

Edited December 1, 2015 by bran

[classicrawker]

58 passes 9 runs........

I was thinking about this earlier...our arguments about the Packers in this thread is like the Football equivalent of "First World Problems"

i know right, you bastards

its like reading patriots forums melting down because they might get the #2 seed in the playoffs/

Packer fans are like Yankee fans in that we expect to win so anything less has become unacceptable.............

Edited December 1, 2015 by classicrawker

[shades]

The Packers will be fine heading down the stretch, and being the highest seeded wild card wouldnt be the worst thing to happen, probably have to play the NFC east champion, which would be like a warm up game.

Assuming the Linebackers can get / stay healthy for the run I like the way they match up with everybody, Their only tough game would be the Panthers.

But yea, enough about the Packers already

[JONEZY]

^{Crazy ending to the game last night. I didn't even turn it on until I saw it was close with 2 minutes to go. Poor Cleveland, they just can't catch a break.}

[Crazyman]

^{Crazy ending to the game last night. I didn't even turn it on until I saw it was close with 2 minutes to go. Poor Cleveland, they just can't catch a break.}

The most Browns way to lose a game

I think I read a stat that the Browns have had the lead in the last 5 minutes of the game and ended up losing like 42 times since 1999 (the year that version of the team started). That's absolutely nuts...

Only loser franchise don't have the expectation to win.

But I can deal with losing - the Packers have a lot of excuses this year, injuries being the biggest one.

What I can't deal with is stupidity and the unwillingness to try new things when the old things aren't working.

I hate when people try and bring up 2010 this year because of the injuries. That team was loaded with talent on defense and was able to withstand a lot of those injuries because they actually schemed differently and had a lot of depth. Not to mention they also got extremely hot at the right time. They also never trailed by more than 7 points the entire season.

The current team doesn't have the same depth, Mac is stubborn/lazy to change personnel or schemes and the talent isn't the same. The more I think about last year I think that was our golden opportunity. We were relatively injury free the entire season and if Rodgers didn't get that calf injury I think we end up playing (and beating) the Pats in the Super Bowl.

And now I'm sad

Edited December 1, 2015 by Crazyman

[Crazyman]

Yeah 2010 team had 4 seasoned WRs on the team and outside of the concussions, a healthy Rodgers.

This team has a gimped Rodgers and maybe 1 proven WR who has some grade of a dislocated shoulder.

Not to mention that 2010 almost beat the Patriots in New England (the year TB won his second MVP), then obviously went on to win the Super Bowl.

Unfortunately I see no chance the 2015 team makes it to California in Feb.

[Apollo]

I hear you Crazy but at what point do we start putting some of the blame on Arod? I was able to watch the last 3 games and he is really struggling with some of his throws, missing wide open receivers, under/over throwing and throwing behind them etc. he also holds the ball an incredibly long time.

I find it hard to believe that nobody is open all the times I see him holding the ball 4+ seconds. He is killing his O-line this year with his indecisiveness IMHO.

I mean he does have the ability to change the call at the Oline if he does not like the defensive read so I don't think we can blame everything on the offensive scheme.

Arod had a shot at winning the Carolina, Detroit and Chicago games and could not punch in the late game TD to give them a chance so he needs to take part of the blame.

And in Capers defense the Defense has actually played reasonably well against Detroit and Chicago so I don't know if they should be blamed for the loses.

Dude can't get a good grip or feel on the ball this year for some reason.

[Crazyman]

Funny you should mention that NE game because McCarthy / Rodgers used a lot of dump off passes to Kuhn in that game which worked to stunning effect.

I don't think Rodgers started calling plays until the next season's finale (when Flynn threw 480 yards and 6 touchdowns)

Also I think we threw a screen or two to Ripkowski this year and it went for a pretty decent gain. For some reason we're insistent on throwing WR screens when our WR's can't block nearly as well as our linemen.

I think we could beat Carolina if we get out shit together and don't find ourselves down 24-3 (or something similar) at half. I don't really see us beating Arizona, though, especially if we play them on the road.

[bran]

Funny you should mention that NE game because McCarthy / Rodgers used a lot of dump off passes to Kuhn in that game which worked to stunning effect.

I don't think Rodgers started calling plays until the next season's finale (when Flynn threw 480 yards and 6 touchdowns)

Also I think we threw a screen or two to Ripkowski this year and it went for a pretty decent gain. For some reason we're insistent on throwing WR screens when our WR's can't block nearly as well as our linemen.

I think we could beat Carolina if we get out shit together and don't find ourselves down 24-3 (or something similar) at half. I don't really see us beating Arizona, though, especially if we play them on the road.

i think the packers could take carolina but arizona is a tough team, carson palmer has found the fountain of youth and that defense is pretty solid. they did lose chris johnson for the rest of the season(he might be able to comeback if they make the SB)

[Crazyman]

Packers released Harris and signed Crockett from the practice squad...a day or two after McGinn criticized them for not cutting under-performing players.

Could've gotten Neal back had they not waited this long. Either way we can probably just ride Crockett all the way to the next 3 Lombardi trophies (at least)!

[RussTCB]

Curious to see what goes down with the Lions tonight.

[Crazyman]

How so? Neal signed with Oakland?

(But yes, it was a dumb move not keeping Neal to start the season)

Also, I am going to the game tonight. The last time I went to a Lions/Packers game, Rodgers got concussed and left the game. They also won the Super Bowl later that year. So you're telling me there's a chance? Hahaha

Neal got cut by Oakland a few weeks ago but got picked up by the Steelers on Tuesday.

Also hopefully Rodgers doesn't get concussed this time and we win

Enjoy the game! Bring home that W!

[Crazyman]

How so? Neal signed with Oakland?

(But yes, it was a dumb move not keeping Neal to start the season)

Also, I am going to the game tonight. The last time I went to a Lions/Packers game, Rodgers got concussed and left the game. They also won the Super Bowl later that year. So you're telling me there's a chance? Hahaha

Neal got cut by Oakland a few weeks ago but got picked up by the Steelers on Tuesday.

Also hopefully Rodgers doesn't get concussed this time and we win

Enjoy the game! Bring home that W!

LEAVE THE STADIUM IMMEDIATELY

[bran]

packers are just fucking up everywhere, not a lot of separation going on from the receivers but rodgers made some nice throws on that drive.

[Apollo]

Carolina - overrated or underrated?

Espn says they are the worst 11-0 team of all time.

But they just keep winning. Frigging Cowboys were favorites to beat them last week. Unbelievable.

I'm not sure why they don't get more respect. I would take them over the Vikings or Cardinals. My Guy just gave me 5-1 odds on them just reaching the Super Bowl. I put $200 down. But am thinking about doing maybe $500 more. The only thing stopping me is that one injury (Cam) ends their run.

So what do you guys think?

Overrated or underrated?

[Crazyman]

Just like they drew it up

Carolina - overrated or underrated?

Espn says they are the worst 11-0 team of all time.

But they just keep winning. Frigging Cowboys were favorites to beat them last week. Unbelievable.

I'm not sure why they don't get more respect. I would take them over the Vikings or Cardinals. My Guy just gave me 5-1 odds on them just reaching the Super Bowl. I put $200 down. But am thinking about doing maybe $500 more. The only thing stopping me is that one injury (Cam) ends their run.

So what do you guys think?
Overrated or underrated?

I don't think they're "run the table" good, but they have the right formula to win the Super Bowl. Arizona is the only team that can stop them from making it, imo.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Crazyman

[bran]

holy shit, no fucking way, lions fans(and me) in utter shock.

Edited December 4, 2015 by bran

[Crazyman]

HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK

[bran]

HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK

what a fucking throw, you see how high that throw was

Edited December 4, 2015 by bran