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Wrestling Thread Vol. 3


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For those watching, you probably can't watch 19 3+ shows within a month. However can you can skip past the undercard to the G-1 matches by watching everything past the intermission.

Yesterday was good, especially the last 3 matches.

Ibushi vs. Naito might be MOTY if NJPW didn't put out some of the big matches they have over the past several months since Wrestle Kingdom. Really good, but pretty dangerous at times. 

It's Omega vs. Suzuki is on Thursday when the tournament resumes, it's going to very different style. Should still be pretty good.

As for WWE;

R.I.P. American Alpha
Buried worse than expected, only slightly better than what they done with Bayley.

 

 

Edited by AtariLegend
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45 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

For those watching, you probably can't watch 19 3+ shows within a month. However can you can skip past the undercard to the G-1 matches by watching everything past the intermission.

Yesterday was good, especially the last 3 matches.

Ibushi vs. Naito might be MOTY if NJPW didn't put out some of the big matches they have over the past several months since Wrestle Kingdom. Really good, but pretty dangerous at times. 

It's Omega vs. Suzuki is on Thursday when the tournament resumes, it's going to very different style. Should still be pretty good.

As for WWE;

R.I.P. American Alpha
Buried worse than expected, only slightly better than what they done with Bayley.

 

 

I like this as the payoff for Kurt's storyline, but sucks for American Alpha. Hard to believe that Fashion Police got over while Alpha are split up, Ascension crashed, and The Colons are out the door... WWE should either consolidate women on one brand and tag teams on the other, or just eliminate the tag division for now.... it's spread way too thin.

I'm going the skip-the-undercard route for the G1, though the WZ Radio guys pointed out that the G1 is less time all-in that the WWE's typical month of programming if you really watch everything they put out. Seeing as I watch most of the WWE's stuff, I strongly considered just going cold-turkey on them for a month and watching the G1 instead, but SummerSlam seems like it'll be a good show and I don't want to miss the build. 

So far I've just watched the first 3 matches from Day 1. YOSHI-HASHI is clearly about to get a huge push having beaten Nagata in round one. I like Fale getting some attention, but if any of the non-Kenny Club guys are going to go anywhere here, I'd really like it to be Tama Tonga more than Fale. And I think watching Ishii-Goto might have given me CTE. Jesus Christ those forearm exchanges.... Gonna watch Tanahashi/Zacky Two-Belts and Naito/Ibushi this afternoon and can't wait. Other than Omega/Okada III and the possibility of Omega/Ibushi in the final, Naito/Ibushi might be the match I'm most excited for in all of this. 

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16 hours ago, axlslash said:

WWE should either consolidate women on one brand and tag teams on the other, or just eliminate the tag division for now.... it's spread way too thin.

I've said this before. Put the Tag division on Smackdown and the women and cruiserweights on RAW (longer show). The make the IC title the top RAW title and the US title the top Smackdown title. Get rid of the Universal Title and make the WWE title the overall top title that can switch brands on major PPV's. Something like that anyway. Then you have some more depth on your rosters and you can book towards making your titles mean something again. 

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Agreed. It really does suck having

2 women's champins
2 tag champions
2 mid card champions(US and IC)

2 main champions. 
1 crusierweight champ

it's complete fuckery to have 9 titles. 

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5 hours ago, Bono said:

Agreed. It really does suck having

2 women's champins
2 tag champions
2 mid card champions(US and IC)

2 main champions. 
1 crusierweight champ

it's complete fuckery to have 9 titles. 

To be fair, though, NJPW has: IWGP Heavyweight Championship;  IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship; IWGP Intercontinental Championship; IWGP US Championship; NEVER Openweight Championship; IWGP Heavyweight Tag Championship; IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Championship; and the NEVER Openweight Six-Man Tag Championship. Every one of those belts feels important. The real problem is the way WWE treats the belts, not the number of belts. Too many PPVs, too much bad booking, and not enough weight. They need to not have every belt on the line at every show, and they need to do a better job of booking.

I mean, look at the NJPW US belt. There's been one match so far with that belt on the line, and Ishii and Omega made that belt feel more important than any belt in WWE in just under half an hour. It's not the belts. It's how you use them.

 

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The difference is those belts serve a different purpose;

IWGP Heavyweight Championship is for the top guys/face in the company. Most people never get anywhere it especially not geeks, it's not defended on every show or PPV and the title reigns generally last a while. Okada/Naito/Tanahashi/Styles are the only ones that even held it in the past several years and people don't win/lose it 10-15 times in their career.

IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship is for the Juniors that wrestle a different style. A division that goes back decades that had everyone from Dynamite Kid, Jushin Thunder Liger, Owen Hart, Chris Jericho, Ultimo Dragon, Finlay, Brian Pillman, Christoper Daniels, Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Eddie Gurrero, Chris Benoit, Kota Ibushi, Prince Devitt (Finn Balor), Bryan Danielson, Ricochet, Will Ospray, Dr. Wagner J.R. and a who's who of historical fiqures go through it till Kushida and Hirmou Takahashi today.

The IWGP Never Open Weight Championship is the division that both Juniors/Heavyweights can compete for and generally ends up being the division for either the stiff wrestlers (Shibata/Ishii) or the older guys (Suzuki).

The IWGP Intercontional Championship is the secondary belt. It's for people who in another company might be the champion or essentially the top stars who aren't ready to be the top guy or need to be kept out of the main title picture. It's essentially the WWE name shake should be, but isn't.

That said the Tag Title divisions should probably just be merged and I offer no defense on the United States Championship. I think though they just wanted a belt that would be primarily defended on US tours and something they could use on ROH (Omega is supposed to be defending it on ROH later this year against different people).

@moreblack Sure watch her win it on RAW then lose it back a few weeks later.

 

Edited by AtariLegend
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13 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

The difference is those belts serve a different purpose;

IWGP Heavyweight Championship is for the top guys/face in the company. Most people never get anywhere it especially not geeks, it's not defended on every show or PPV and the title reigns generally last a while. Okada/Naito/Tanahashi/Styles are the only ones that even held it in the past several years and people don't win/lose it 10-15 times in their career.

IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship is for the Juniors that wrestle a different style. A division that goes back decades that had everyone from Dynamite Kid, Jushin Thunder Liger, Owen Hart, Chris Jericho, Ultimo Dragon, Finlay, Brian Pillman, Christoper Daniels, Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Eddie Gurrero, Chris Benoit, Kota Ibushi, Prince Devitt (Finn Balor), Bryan Danielson, Ricochet, Will Ospray, Dr. Wagner J.R. and a who's who of historical fiqures go through it till Kushida and Hirmou Takahashi today.

The IWGP Never Open Weight Championship is the division that both Juniors/Heavyweights can compete for and generally ends up being the division for either the stiff wrestlers (Shibata/Ishii) or the older guys (Suzuki).

The IWGP Intercontional Championship is the secondary belt. It's for people who in another company might be the champion or essentially the top stars who aren't ready to be the top guy or need to be kept out of the main title picture. It's essentially the WWE name shake should be, but isn't.

That said the Tag Title divisions should probably just be merged and I offer no defense on the United States Championship. I think though they just wanted a belt that would be primarily defended on US tours and something they could use on ROH (Omega is supposed to be defending it on ROH later this year against different people).

@moreblack Sure watch her win it on RAW then lose it back a few weeks later.

 

I fully understand that. I'm not sure that a brand vs division distinction necessarily means all that much different. Raw and SmackDown are very different shows with very different styles, so I think there's some analog there. The issue of how many people get near the belts is exactly what I was talking about in terms of WWE needing to do a better job of booking. So basically, we agree :)

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2 hours ago, axlslash said:

To be fair, though, NJPW has: IWGP Heavyweight Championship;  IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship; IWGP Intercontinental Championship; IWGP US Championship; NEVER Openweight Championship; IWGP Heavyweight Tag Championship; IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Championship; and the NEVER Openweight Six-Man Tag Championship. Every one of those belts feels important. The real problem is the way WWE treats the belts, not the number of belts. Too many PPVs, too much bad booking, and not enough weight. They need to not have every belt on the line at every show, and they need to do a better job of booking.

I mean, look at the NJPW US belt. There's been one match so far with that belt on the line, and Ishii and Omega made that belt feel more important than any belt in WWE in just under half an hour. It's not the belts. It's how you use them.

 

To be fair though NJPW means nothing to me as I'm not a big enough wrestling fan to really venture outside WWE other than the occasional viewing of ROH since it's always on tv here. I grew up when they had the IC, HW, Tag Belts and that was it. It was better in my opinion with less belts. I'd be fine with US, IC, Heavyweight(WWE), Women's, Tag, Cruiser but like I said in my opinion the way it is now is fuckery. I don't want two women's champs, two tag champs and two main champs. One of each  is enough. Yes it's how you use them obviously but for WWE a major problem is also how many. 

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7 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

Just curious can anyone name the most famous match NJPW ever put on without googling it?

It should be pretty easy even if you never seen it before.

I sure can't. I'm a new fan, so don't know the history nearly as well as I'd like to. 

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10 hours ago, AxlisOld said:

AJ v Nakamura?

 

12 hours ago, axlslash said:

I sure can't. I'm a new fan, so don't know the history nearly as well as I'd like to. 

81426642.jpg

 

-edit-

Day 2 just finished of the tournament.

I'd only really recommend Suzuki vs. Omega, it was fun.

Tomorrow it's Zack Sabre J.R. vs. Kota Ibushi which should be really good. It's the match WWE wanted as the final of the Cruiserweight Classic last year, but both rejected contract offers from WWE. Obviously very wisely.

Edited by AtariLegend
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NXT has gotten so bipolar lately. Wasn't that long ago that it was routinely the best WWE show of the week, with consistent storyline development, strong creative, and all great matches. Now, you get some of that (Ruby Riot  vs Ember Moon and Drew McIntire vs Killian Dane last night both deserved to be on PPVs), but you also get Oney Lorcan vs Danny Burch and No Way Jose vs some Brazilian developmental talent that just feel like pure developmental work. I know that's sort of the point of NXT, it's just a notable shift from where it was a year ago.

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Brock is probably going back to UFC after Mania. Which probably makes it even more plausible they'll have Reigns slay the beast at Mania 34. 

But wouldn't it be awesome if they'd have him beaten by Joe with Heyman turning on Lesnar at Mania. 

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20 minutes ago, username said:

Brock is probably going back to UFC after Mania. Which probably makes it even more plausible they'll have Reigns slay the beast at Mania 34. 

But wouldn't it be awesome if they'd have him beaten by Joe with Heyman turning on Lesnar at Mania. 

Is this as legit scenario? Brock has plans to go back to UFC? I think having Heyman turn on him then would be the perfect way to do it. You don't have to have Brock squashed the way he was vs Goldberg and you don't even have to have him lose clean. That way when he inevitably comes back his aura is still in tact.  A clean Roman win would be so fucking lame. they should build towards Roman vs Cena at mania. Get it over with. That match doesn't need the belt on the line. Unless of course they'd plan on making Cena go over on Roman to break Flair's record. At this point though I kinda feel like they'd push Roman over Cena. 

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5 minutes ago, Bono said:

Is this as legit scenario? Brock has plans to go back to UFC? I think having Heyman turn on him then would be the perfect way to do it. You don't have to have Brock squashed the way he was vs Goldberg and you don't even have to have him lose clean. That way when he inevitably comes back his aura is still in tact.  A clean Roman win would be so fucking lame. they should build towards Roman vs Cena at mania. Get it over with. That match doesn't need the belt on the line. Unless of course they'd plan on making Cena go over on Roman to break Flair's record. At this point though I kinda feel like they'd push Roman over Cena. 

http://whatculture.com/sport/brock-lesnar-to-make-shock-ufc-return-in-november 

http://whatculture.com/sport/brock-lesnar-undergoing-usada-testing

http://whatculture.com/wwe/brock-lesnar-reportedly-tells-wwe-he-39-s-leaving-after-wrestlemania-34

http://pwinsider.com/article/111030/brock-lesnar-to-return-to-ufc-lots-of-coverage-for-shane-mcmahons-emergency-landing-and-more.html?p=1

http://pwinsider.com/article/111033/brock-lesnar-update.html?p=1

http://pwinsider.com/article/111045/brock-lesnarmma-update.html?p=1 

Very strong rumor. 

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19 minutes ago, username said:

Hmmm.... That's kinda cool I guess but him testing positive last time really ruined my excitement and interest in him as an MMA fighter. I wanted to believe Brock was this freak who could just step into UFC and beat the baddest fighters in the world and then when he tested positive it shattered that illusion. I'll still watch though if he fights. 

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The exact same thing happened a few years ago. Most likely scenario is still Brock getting a new WWE deal and having an exception made where he can have a UFC fight or two with advance notice for the schedule. 

The idea of Brock jobbing to everyone on the way out, is ridiculous. He's the only one semi-protected on the show, he normally delivers on PPV (if it doesn't Triple H or a concussed Undertaker). It's their decision to randomly have him show up on TV and do nothing while Heyman talks. Blame Vince.

Besides if he did leave, he'd probably be back in a year or two for a final run.

As for Roman vs. Lesnar, it really bewilders that Vince is obsessed with ways to build up to a match no one wants and no one will benefit from. They keep planning on it every mania, then change their mind. 

In the end Reigns beating Lesnar, isn't going to help Reigns. Reigns has been in 3 Wrestlemania main events and won the title multiple times. They had him retire the Undertaker and Vince is still determined to make him "the guy". It's failed miserably. Reigns was supposed to be in the league of Austin/Hogan/Cena, instead he's just going to be a slightly better Kevin Nash (during his failed run on top).

They need to pick someone new, who the fans accept who hasn't been damaged and isn't in their mid 30's (and been around forever).

 

Edited by AtariLegend
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It's a bargaining chip. He knows what he needs to do in order to credibly tell WWE that he could walk away and go back to MMA. He has to have been in the USADA testing protocols and serve out the rest of his suspension which was tolled while he was retired. So if he is testing again, it's so he can negotiate credibly when his WWE deal comes due. 

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