Wrestling Thread Vol. 3

[AtariLegend]

Reading some of the Observer quotes on squaredcircle from a few months back.

If Taker really did request Cena and Vince turned it down, so that he could put over Roman instead... really just fucking sad.

Cena vs. Taker really made sense as Taker's last match. It wouldn't have been a big deal anymore too if Cena had won, since it was the end and the streak was already over. 

Not sure if it's true, but Taker really should have been able to choose how he went out. Such a waste. 

[AtariLegend]

The commentary team still trying to pretend Roman is normally cheered.

Just in case you thought that was a heel turn!

[axlslash]

42 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

The commentary team still trying to pretend Roman is normally cheered.

Just in case you thought that was a heel turn!

They aren't wrong, so you can't do a full turn on this particular episode. But that was a heel promo if I've ever seen one. So was his promo in Philly. He does another one next week and they put over "boy, they used to cheer, we don't know what's going on," and the next week he's just a heel. I think they're playing the long game and turning him for real, but only time will tell.

[AtariLegend]

Is Nakamura interrupting Lesnar tonight too much to ask?

Cool to see The Revival called up. One of the few teams made of wrestlers mostly made by WWE in this era that's pretty good. I hope they don't end up getting the treatment American Alpha got though. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by AtariLegend

[username]

14 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

f Taker really did request Cena and Vince turned it down, so that he could put over Roman instead... really just fucking sad.

Cena vs. Taker really made sense as Taker's last match. It wouldn't have been a big deal anymore too if Cena had won, since it was the end and the streak was already over. 

Not sure if it's true, but Taker really should have been able to choose how he went out. Such a waste. 

I read that too. Sadly Vince's Roman-boner got in the way. I get the whole looking to the future argument and yes now they can build towards the match between the two guys who defeated Taker at Mania. But it would really help if they didn't do it with the guy who's been universally rejected for years. 

[AtariLegend]

Last complaint of the day, I promise!

That RAW title belt looked absolutely horrendous, I seriously wonder what was going through Lesnar's mind when he seen it for the first time. 

[axlslash]

5 hours ago, username said:

I read that too. Sadly Vince's Roman-boner got in the way. I get the whole looking to the future argument and yes now they can build towards the match between the two guys who defeated Taker at Mania. But it would really help if they didn't do it with the guy who's been universally rejected for years. 

So to avoid the guy who the hardcore fans reject, you'd have given it to... Cena, oh his way out the door? Retiring the Undertaket is a once-in-a-lifetime event, and it needs to do long-term business for a full-time worker. If this is just another blind push for Roman, I agree it's a waste. But if this sets up Roman's next program, whether it's a heel turn or otherwise, then it's better business than letting a part-timer end the Deadman's career. 

[AtariLegend]

In case the commentators pulling out the shtick that people on the RAW after mania normally cheer the people they boo and boo the people they cheer after Reigns promo. They made sure on RAW talk after RAW to have Jerry reinforce it and say everyone knows Roman's a good guy.

This is just to build to Roman beating Lesnar so they can attempt to push Reigns as the face of the company yet again.

Taker deserved to go out on his own terms, the same way Michaels got to go out. Not for a failed project.

As for Cena, the hardcores don't really hate Cena anymore. He earned respect years back. Cena's booed now because it's the cool thing to do, as opposed to a decade ago when it was a 50/50 audience. Roman's fucking hated and heavily booed at house shows which Cena normally gets cheered at. Cena and Taker going at it in Taker's last match would also bring the story full circle from 14 years ago.

Have fun defending Roman's next coronation at Mania next year.

Edited April 4, 2017 by AtariLegend

[axlslash]

12 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

In case the commentators pulling out the shtick that people on the RAW after mania normally cheer the people they boo and boo the people they cheer after Reigns promo. They made sure on RAW talk after RAW to have Jerry reinforce it and say everyone knows Roman's a good guy.

This is just to build to Roman beating Lesnar so they can attempt to push Reigns as the face of the company yet again.

Taker deserved to go out on his own terms, the same way Michaels got to go out. Not for a failed project.

As for Cena, the hardcores don't really hate Cena anymore. He earned respect years back. Cena's booed now because it's the cool thing to do, as opposed to a decade ago when it was a 50/50 audience. Roman's fucking hated and heavily booed at house shows which Cena normally gets cheered at. Cena and Taker going at it in Taker's last match would also bring the story full circle from 14 years ago.

Have fun defending Roman's next coronation at Mania next year.

I don't understand the hate for Roman. He's got a great look, and insane work ethic and work rate, and he can straight up GO. That being said, I won't defend any push for him as a top baby at this point. I think the fans are dolts, but they've made up their mind and the company needs to listen. 

That being said, a turn only matters if the heel had good shine as a baby before they turned. Obviously Roman will not get that shine from the crowd. The announcers and Raw Talk could be them trying to manipulate the crowd reaction, or it could be lining up the turn. This is the second Raw in a row where Roman's in-ring segment was specifically designed to *make the crowd boo* - they've protected him as much as possible through his babyface push, and now they WANT him to get booed. And that heat last night was absolutely nuclear. I don't think there's any way they just repurpose this. It's supposed to happen, and it will fuel whatever Roman's next story is. I'll reserve judgment until I see where this goes. If it is just going to be another babyface face-of-the-fed push, though, it's a fucking waste. 

[username]

1 hour ago, axlslash said:

So to avoid the guy who the hardcore fans reject, you'd have given it to... Cena, oh his way out the door? Retiring the Undertaket is a once-in-a-lifetime event, and it needs to do long-term business for a full-time worker. If this is just another blind push for Roman, I agree it's a waste. But if this sets up Roman's next program, whether it's a heel turn or otherwise, then it's better business than letting a part-timer end the Deadman's career. 

No. You either honor Taker's wishes or you link the argument not to do so to a guy that makes sense. Not Roman Reigns. The more they keep forcing him the more he just pisses me off. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by username

[username]

22 minutes ago, axlslash said:

I don't understand the hate for Roman.

15% limited moveset

25% inability to deliver a promo

60% reaction towards how he's booked

[axlslash]

14 minutes ago, username said:

15% limited moveset

25% inability to deliver a promo

60% reaction towards how he's booked

Bayley has a limited moveset, makes Roman look like Rocky on the mic, and has been booked similarly for shit. She doesn't get booed (though she does get serenaded nauseatingly, way to reinforce the stereotype of the sweaty creeper dudes who've never seen a woman before, universe....).

[AtariLegend]

Bayley was booked better in NXT and alot better on promos. She's also not booked to look strong at the expense of everyone's favorite wrestlers. Apart from that, she's in her spot... she's not booked as the star of the show. She has also managed to get booed on some recent shows, due to the way she's been presented.

Reigns push on the otherhand was seen as a middle finger by Vince and rejection of the fans wishes of Bryan/Punk.

The guy got a wellness suspension which is very difficult compared to WWE's standards (he must have been injecting himself during the urine test to fail it) and still got re-pushed. 

He's the face of the bland soulless corporate 3 hour WWE era. A 4 star match every few months with A.J. Styles or whatever favorite they book him to go over, isn't going to help.

Edited April 4, 2017 by AtariLegend

[axlslash]

Being The Elite, featuring the Hardys and Mama and Papa "Jackson" (make sure you watch until the merch plug, there's a great convo with their dad):

 

[AtariLegend]

Nak getting the biggest pop of the last few days.

Worried there though. That's almost CM Punk in Chicago 2011 level there. Trips might need to book himself to beat Nak to kill the heat soon if he's cheered like that next week!

Edited April 5, 2017 by AtariLegend

[moreblack]

3 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

Nak getting the biggest pop of the last few days.

Last 2 days at most. That Hardys pop was the biggest of the last few years.

Edited April 5, 2017 by moreblack

[AtariLegend]

6 hours ago, moreblack said:

Last 2 days at most. That Hardys pop was the biggest of the last few years.

This had like a 5th of the attendance. Using the approximate real figures not the worked numbers.

Edited April 5, 2017 by AtariLegend

[axlslash]

That Nakamura debut was perfect. He got a huge pop, but the pop for his violinist might have been bigger

Great show last night. My only complaints were that Corbin/Ambrose should have been for the title (with the same outcome), and the ending was nonsense and just continues burying Bray. He's done silly projector tricks and the "teleportation" thing, and Orton fucking no-sells it all. So Bray's tricks look hacky and Orton looks strong. Great. Do we need that twice in three days? And welcome back, Rowan, here's an RKO and a 3-count. 

[username]

5 minutes ago, axlslash said:

That Nakamura debut was perfect. He got a huge pop, but the pop for his violinist might have been bigger

Great show last night. My only complaints were that Corbin/Ambrose should have been for the title (with the same outcome), and the ending was nonsense and just continues burying Bray. He's done silly projector tricks and the "teleportation" thing, and Orton fucking no-sells it all. So Bray's tricks look hacky and Orton looks strong. Great. Do we need that twice in three days? And welcome back, Rowan, here's an RKO and a 3-count. 

Agreed on all of this. 

But there's no real logic in having Orton team with Harper either. Wasn't Orton the reason Harper got cut out of the family in the first place? And now they're suddenly buds? 

[axlslash]

25 minutes ago, username said:

Agreed on all of this. 

But there's no real logic in having Orton team with Harper either. Wasn't Orton the reason Harper got cut out of the family in the first place? And now they're suddenly buds? 

With how in-between Orton and Bray are in terms of being baby or heel, it just accentuates the campiness of the traditional "all faces are friend and all heels are friends" wrestle crap. RKO and Bray both deserve better.

There are no words to describe how excited I am for Miz / Shin as a long-term program. Miz is hot as hell and can do most of the talking, and Nakamura is absolutely on fire. I know they didn't actually interact last night, but I am desperately hoping that the interruption was a sign that they're pairing those two off. 

[AtariLegend]

I think I'm in the minority some times in this thread in relation to Bray.

I've never seen the hype for Bray from his first hokey match against Kane with the fire onwards. His best matches involved Bryan Danielson, he almost always losses the big match and his promos always stupid hokey nonsense. Take away entrance and all you have is an average wrestler with a different look. King of the 3 star match.

Orton on the other hand is one of the guys, who is obviously a good wrestler, but always puts on boring match. 

They had a terrible match on PPV just a few months ago, why was Wrestlemania going to be any different?

Now that Nakamura's on SmackDown! it's great. Just trying to figure who on the SmackDown! side currently I'd like to see him wrestle with at a PPV other than Cena/A.J (hopefully at SummerSlam or Mania with 30 minutes).

[PsychoKiss344]

8 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

I think I'm in the minority some times in this thread in relation to Bray.

I've never seen the hype for Bray from his first hokey match against Kane with the fire onwards. His best matches involved Bryan Danielson, he almost always losses the big match and his promos always stupid hokey nonsense. Take away entrance and all you have is an average wrestler with a different look. King of the 3 star match.

Orton on the other hand is one of the guys, who is obviously a good wrestler, but always puts on boring match. 

They had a terrible match on PPV just a few months ago, why was Wrestlemania going to be any different?

Now that Nakamura's on SmackDown! it's great. Just trying to figure who on the SmackDown! side currently I'd like to see him wrestle with at a PPV other than Cena/A.J (hopefully at SummerSlam or Mania with 30 minutes).

Nakamura vs Miz

Nakamura vs Dolph

Nakamura vs Corbin 

[AtariLegend]

32 minutes ago, PsychoKiss344 said:

Nakamura vs Miz

Nakamura vs Dolph

Nakamura vs Corbin 

- Seen it after SmackDown! in dark match position. It was the main event to stop the audience bailing during 205. Not very exciting. Also not a Ziggler fan.

- Sure Nak could get a good match out of Corbin, but I missed all the great Corbin matchs of the past too!

- Nak vs. Miz would be fine for a month, but I think people have mistaken Miz working with Cena and that burial of Ziggler a few months back for thinking Miz is a great wrestler. Okay for a month, but we're not exactly getting a 4 3/4* match from it.

As for RAW;

Do think Rusev would work well with Nak as far as a match goes. Cesaro obviously (please not Sheamus!), but we'd at best get it on TV.

Rollins in theory would be good, as would Triple H (don't think we'll see this) and yes of course Reigns. Reigns athletic big man/power style would work well with Nak. I'd be worried about the result though.

As a fan I'd like to see Nak vs. Lesnar 11 years afterwards now that they're both in very different places. It's something on paper that would look amazing, but would WWE let them layout a match or just book this thing they do with Lesnar these days?

Top of wish list though guys; Nak vs. Bryan in G-1 Climax next year! (no harm in wishing!)

 

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by AtariLegend

[moreblack]

Cody will participate in the G1 coming up.

[AtariLegend]

2 hours ago, moreblack said:

Cody will participate in the G1 coming up.

He'll certainly have the best matchs of his career during those few weeks. He'll have to step it up, hope he knows what the standard is.

Past few years have had some ridiculous matchs. 

For those of you who take Observer ratings seriously, there was at least 8 matchs above 4 1/2*-5*s last year. In 2014 there was 16...

Edited April 5, 2017 by AtariLegend